First time ever for sleep problems at 18 MONTHS!!

[nickel]

We have NEVER had problems with getting our 2nd daughter to sleep. I have never "walked the halls" at night, she pretty much co-slept for the first 3 to 6 months, and was breastfeed until about 2-3 months ago. She has always gone to sleep really easily (on the whole- she has teethed and been sick etc) but just recently in the last few weeks she has started screaming at night when I put her to bed. It's not every night, but it's happening more and more often, the last week it was 5 out of 7 nights.
We did a modified controlled crying with my first baby - mainly because I didn't know any different and was comfortable leaving her to cry. I'm much more in tune with our 2nd little girl, and think it's far more important to listen to her than to go by a routine or book. My DH just keeps saying, "leave her, she'll be fine " because that's what we did with our first. He keeps saying she turned out fine (she's 5 and 1/2 now) but I'm really not happy with the levels of distress!

1. she's not "fussing" - she is really distraught, hiccuping and screaming.
2. It's not every night, I'm having trouble finding a pattern ie. a REASON
3. She doesn't do it during the day for her nap, and if she cries I just get her up - I figure she's not tired.
4. When we get her up, she's ok for a while but she is clearly TIRED, it's not like she's just not tired and doesn't want to go to bed.
5. We thought she might be overtired, so moved her bedtime forward last night, which was great, she went straight to sleep. But tonight at the same time with same routine she freaked out.
6.If I get her up and she just sits on my lap, I wouldn't mind, but she fusses around, crawling all over me, headbutting me, sort of wailing but not as distressed as when she's in her cot.

I thought they suffered seperation anxiety at about 9 months? Is 18 months common? Has anyone else had this? It's not teething - I know the difference.
I mean eventually she does cry herself to sleep, but it takes between 20-35 minutes of waves of tears (ie. she'll calm down, then start up again, then calm down, then start up again) Because she's so much older she has much more strenght than a newborn to cry, and she's crying "mummy, up please" which of course is pretty distressing for me.

ANY IDEAS ANYONE?? Anyone have any psychology on this??
Please help, I'm really torn between what my husband says and my new-found instinctual parenting which has worked fine up until now. My DH says I'm making her have a habit by picking her up when she cries, but she is distressed, I can't just leave her! Am I making it worse for her? If I knew it was for the best I'd let her cry it out, but I'm not sure that leaving her to cry herself to sleep knowing that her mother won't answer her cries is a good thing!!

[MistyFying]

Nickel . Has anything else changed in her/your life recently? Maybe she's reacting to something that's unsettling her in general? Have you introduced any new food? Does she have cow's milk before bed? If you've only just weaned her, perhaps it's something to do with lactose?

I don't know...just throwing some suggestions out there. Perhaps it's just a developmental thing. For what it's worth, I think your instinctual parenting thing is great. She's obviously unsettled about something, and even if you can't work out straight away what it is, at least you're providing comfort and physical touch in her time of discontent.

[nickel]

Nope, nothing has changed - christmas was a small interuption to normal routine I suppose? I think it might have started then.
Developmentally she started walking and talking at christmas so she's taken a giant leap forward so to speak. She's discovered that she can ask for what she wants hence the "up please" (which means pick me up) She's never had issues going to sleep before, this is why I'm really lost. And last time I left Giorgia to cry, I am not as comfortable doing that now. I mean is 20 minutes a reasonable amount of time for an 18 month old to cry? I would NEVER leave a younger baby for that long, but she's bigger and stronger now.

[Lulu]

I hear you! DD has decided bed is NOT for her anymore - after never being a problem (well not compared to ds) to get off the bed.

NO NO NO - she says and carried on like a pork chop. I tried to settle her in the lounge the other night but she ran off to join storytime with her brother instead.

Well so I thought! 15 minutes later when Daddy asked where she was I found her sitting under the table on the back deck.....NO mummy!
She goes off eventually, but we are jumping through hoops a bit. We settle her in her room, and don't bring her back to the lounge.

I'm just hoping she'll go back to her routine if she works out she is going to bed no matter what she does......

[jgilly]

hi. i am havign the same problem and the main reason why i joined the forum to gain some suggestions or acknowledge others having same ordeal. little 'dec' is 14 months old and has been really distressed at sleep times since just after one turnign one. first thought immunisation, then teeth( one has cut-gums look a little sore). We tried the walking in and out of room but found it was taking over an hour and he started fretting and trying to climb out of the cot. we also were basically uncomfortable letting him get so upset. so the past week i have been using similar settling routines as you had listed. it is taking about 30 min to settle -no screaming but as soon as i stand to walk out he opens his eyes and cries/screams-stands up so i just stay in room and slowly take a step out and say 'sssh" eventually he falls asleep. i had no problems beforehand either and it went from bedtime, now he is doing it durign day naps and is waking up in middle of night( in the middle of the night i have resorted to dipping his dummy in a teething relief or one dip of nuerofen (but feel uncomfortable doing so-just thought if it is teeth this will be heling and not giving a big dose)again i also and i have to stay in his room for about 20 min..but he seems to be settling better and quicker plus we are more relaxed now. i started cows milk at one year old but thought he would have been upset during day if there was a problem ( does anyone know if it is more at night they show problems with milk intolerance) i think it is more that he is distressed at sleep times and maybe i comforted him more with his injections and teething. I am a little bit concerned bout it and hope it is just a stage as i am expecting our second child at end of feb and am thinking to myself how am i going to cope with spending this additional time settling "dec" every sleep. My only hope is that he seems to be settling quicker each day???
ta jgilly

[jgilly]

hi again
just an update from my message yesterday...after last night taking over 1 hour and half to get 'dec'to sleep-no crying just sitting with him...but everytime i moved he woke and cried...so had to resort to nurofen... i woke this mornign in desperation and called a friend with 2 little boys. She suggested puttng dec on 1 sleep per day so hopefully he will be tired by 7-7.30 as last night he was up till 10 then woke twice through the night and rose at 6.15am. Obviously his sleep patterns are out of control. So i have just put him down at 11.30- we watched humphrey, read books and went for a walk in pram to keep him awake past his usual sleep time of 10am!. He went down without a fuss and hopefully he will sleep for a few hours now so tonight he will be tired by 7pm. He had a bottle when he woke, breakfast an hour later then a small lunch at 10.00(hope to make this a full lunch in a few days)-hopefully a full tummy will help! will let you know in a couple of days how we are going...fingers crossed!!

[nickel]

yeah, I thought I had it sorted. Last night my DH wasn't home so I just took a bit longer with Ruby, left my older DD aged 5 in her bed and told her she could read to herself for a bit longer tonight (they sleep in same room). Then spent just an extra 20 minutes cuddling and reading books and singing to Ruby in the lounge room before putting her to bed. That worked a treat and I thought woo hoo. Ok. she just needs some extra reassurance.
Same thing tonight, we all read books in DD's bed, she sat and read a book and feel asleep in about a minute(!) while Ruby had her extra cuddles etc. I then put Rub to bed, no major tantrum, no worries. I thought i AM a total legend. Go attachment parenting.
BUT right now she's up, (1.5 hours later) because she has been awake that whole time and a few minutes ago started to cry out and yell a bit. Currently DH is trying to read quietly to her on the couch in semi darkness and asking me what to do!!??? So anyway he just put her back to bed, no problems no crying. It's almost like she needed the extra reassurance or something??
I'm glad DH is going along with me, he realises that I've changed parenting styles a bit, so it was nice to have the support.

Uh oh, spoke to soon, crying from the bedroom...Really don't know what to do about this. It really does feel like out of the blue. And I'm losing patience and getting annoyed, which isn't very loving.

[christy]

:hugs: Nickel! You are doing a fantastic job mate. I wouldn't know what to do either & actually atm we are going through something similar & we do exactly what you are doing. Extra cuddles and quiet time. Thats about all that works for us.

[Roryrory]

Flynn has started the same trick, but I guess he has a little bro to deal with now. Still he doesn't seem to exhibit any stress about Ollie during the day - maybe it is just an age thing. It is so awful to hear the screaming. He wakes at night too and I have gone back to the old dread of him waking....

"no no no no" he cries. It's worse than when he was little cause now he cries "mummy pleeeease" or "daddy nooooo!:

[BeautifulMadness]

I understand all too well, my 13 mth old the lil bugger had a great routine butthen all of sudden he started waking during the nightkeeping us till all hours. and now he has back in his routine so i have no idea.

[*Shell*]

I have the same problem with Emily, she goes to bed between 8pm - 8.30pm, wakes around 12am. This has been going on since late Oct Early nov. last month I started putting her in the bed with us (if i dont, after the 12am wake she wakes every hour) to which she goes straight to sleep and doesnt wake. I have tried, putting her to bed earlier, later, cutting sleeps through the day. Nothing works. I never had ANY prblems with DD1 and sleep! I really think our sleeping probs started after her 6 month injections (they were just under 2 months late). As much i love Emily i really dont want her sleeping in our bed. Nice to know im not the only one having problems.

[ZigZag]

My DD went through a similar thing a few months ago but is nearly 3 so could be totally different thing being so much older. The one thing we changed was spending a bit more time in her room with the lights out after we'd read books etc, and just have a cuddle and quiet talk with the lights out before walking out. This generally worked along with leaving the door open (she refers to it as wanting the door 'whole' open - crack me up), and leaving a light on in the hallway. So for her it was mostly being in the dark I think that bothered her.

Around the same time she was having (I presume) 'night terrors'. She'd wake up after a few hours sleep and really sob her heart out for a good 20min. It would take me a that long to calm her down by holding her. She did this a couple of times just before bedtime as well but thought it was her just playing up so had been disciplining her, which I quickly stopped once I realised it made it a whole lot worse - she would just become hysterical. It lasted for about 2 weeks and each time I'd just take her to the lounge room and give her a big cuddle and not say much because it just seemed to get her more confused and upset so would just hold her and rock her a bit until she stopped.....she'd then pretty much go back to bed with no problems; as long as the door was 'whole' open and hallway light on.

Anyway, I'm sure you've thought of that and sounds like things might be settling for you.

[jgilly]

hi guys thought i would update our efforts over the last week with us going to one sleep during the day. 'dec' has been sleeping 2hr-2.5 hr in this one block so down at about 12.00 with no drama only have to sit with him for 5min........ - so by 7-7.30 pm he is really tired and wanting to go to his cot. i sit with him till he sleeps which has been taking about 40min, as he still cries if i walk out when his eyes are open-(still wishing this to be cut in half the time) Seems to close eyes when the relaxation music stops so i will turn it off earlier tomorrow night and see how we go. - still early days but i think the drop to one sleep seems to be suiting his patterns alot better.Also bedtime is soo much mere relaxed--- last 2 nights only waking for dummy- asleep by 7.45pm even though showing signs at 7 of tiredness and waking 7.30am!! Ps i also put him in sleepingbag last night which could also assist him sleeping. Totnight his bedroom was too warm but i will try and rug him up before i go to bed. maybe he was waking up cold then needing me too resettle him!!! who knows reading everyones responses and talking to my mothers group there could be 100 different reasons-just wish we could pin point the right one! hope we all solve it and stop chatting on this thread!!!!

[nickel]

THANKYOU everyone who has related similar things. It's good to remember that kids are individuals, that they go through stages whether 18 months or 3 years, and that it's ok to parent instinctively.

Shell - that is really interesting, because I think it totally started after her last immunisations. I mean yes, it could be any number of things but I was aware of her being a bit clingy because she had had her needles...she was um, WAY late with hers, we had to do a bit of catching up.
I wonder, as they are a bit older, maybe a stranger inflicting deliberate pain on them totally spins them out? Well it would wouldn't it!!

SO we had needles, a week later christmas at my MIL's house, and then the last two weeks all over the shop. I did notice today that she has some MAJOR teeth coming through about 8 at once (she's been a bit behind on them).

anyway, last time I posted, she actually didnt' wake up (WOO HOO) - so at the moment I'm sticking with the extra cuddles and reassurance, it seems to be working more often than not. Just letting her know that if she needs me I am there and will come. She is waking up SO tired though.

RoryRory - so WITH you. "Up *hiccup* please Mummy" is killing me!! I was a total "let them cry" mother the first time round, and so am getting some funny looks from my friends and DH because I don't want to do that this time.