Won't sleep

[Mumma2three]

Hi, I've been on here before about Coco's bad sleeping and it's just getting worse. It's now been more than 3 days since she's slept in her cot, she just will not sleep in it. Also she is now not settling herself, I have to feed her to sleep and then she wakes up 9 out of 10 times anyway. We're just not getting sleep and I find Im lucky if she'll sleep on my stomach at night for two hours in a row. Any advice welcome, Im not sure what to do, and am not sure if Tresillian would be helpful at this early stage.
Im not expecting miracles and I am prepared for this to go on for a long time, but I at least thought she'd continue doing her initial sleep at night in the cot, but it seems not.
thanks oxo

[Astrid]

Coco sounds a bit similar to Maggie in the early days. I'll will try to remember what helped me back then.

Be patient when transferring to the cot. Often they appear to be really asleep, but aren't quite yet. I remember 20 minutes being mentioned regarding this. Often I would start to pat her whilst holding her, then gradually move her in my arms to be in the best position for putting down and I would still be patting. Then once placed down I would continue to pat till she looked settled and then slowly ease of the patting, getting lighter and lighter before stopping.

Where is the cot? I often found Maggie slept better in the room with us. She would sleep in the lounge room for day naps in her bassinet.

I do find co-sleeping does help, I just wish I did it in the early days. It is a lot less tiring to just wake, put a boob in their mouth and go back to sleep.

Try massage as well, that may help relax her and she might sleep a bit longer afterwards. It is also good for wind troubles. Thinking back now when Maggie was clinging and woke a lot it was normally due to tummy pain.

Hope that helps, good luck

[Lucy]

Meg,

You poor loves, you must all be buggered.

Olivia was a very unsettled baby for the first 3 months and her unsettledness started at about 3 weeks, and it took a lot out of us. I think babies are sometimes simply not ready to come out of the womb, they still want to be that close to their Mummy!

My advice would be this: I hope I make some sense!

~ After she has had a big sleep and a big feed, let her have some fairly interactive awake time with you.
~ Watch her for cues that she is tired and then feed her again and let her feed to sleep.
~ When she drops off on the boob, hold her vertically over your shoulder to let all the wind rise naturally.
~ Then just keep her on your shoulder until she is deeply asleep.......this may take ages!
~ Do you have a snuggle bed, or a basinet, in comparison to the big cot? OR maybe look at hiring a baby hammock? Transferring a sleeping baby into these rather than a cot, seems to work better, cos they continue to feel secure.

If you want any info re hammocks, let me know: both my babies have used them and I swear by them.

Also, I know she is only tiny, but do you have a bedtime routine? ie bath, boob then bed? It really helped us with Olivia.......even if she slept on me / in the baby carrier thru the day, the bath was one thing that triggered the "big sleep in bed" message to Olivia, and she was almost relieved to be put in the bath!

(BTW, we use the bath as a "mood breaker" for all of us, even now. ie if either of the children are tired, scratchy, over it, we hop in the bath with them and utilise the bath as a "restart button" for all of us.....it may not help them sleep, but it helps everyone deal with it, IYKWIM?)

Not sure if any of the above is any help........

[deancey]

Sorry to hear about your sleep issues. We had those also and they are so horrible because you both get over tired and its hard to relax.

I found that breastfeeding till he was asleep and then putting him over my shoulder and patting his back helped. Then I would put him in his cradle on his side and pat his bottom for a while.

I would wrap Jordan before offering the second side so that when he was asleep I could just put him straight down. We now have a "grobag" that he sleeps in which is excellent. No more wrapping and he is always covered and his arms are free which he likes.

I also found a dummy worked for us. Even though we had to stand with our hands on it as he would constantly push it out, the sucking would send him to sleep with the patting of the bottom.

Hope you both get some sleep happening. You will find something that works for you both it is all trial and error unfortunatly.

Best of luck

[Jade ONeil]

Absolutley try tressilian!!! I went with my son when he was 4 months old & can not fault them. Your baby is much younger, but they will give you the confidence to know what's going on & how to deal wtih it. Not only that they will give you a break, all you have to do is look after you & baby, no house work & no cooking. Just a warning though the food is awful. If you go to the one at Penrith there's a little cafe just outside the gates USE that!!

Please go you wont regret it at all. Just make sure you go with the right frame of mind if you arent willing to take on board what they tell you then it wont work.

[Trillian]

Meg, I have been following your posts about Coco and I don't have an easy solution for you (i wish i did though), but when you say she spends all night trying to poo and can't, maybe she needs a bit of gentle chiropractic work or a Bowen treatment (this is like a massage)? You had a very quick and early delivery and maybe something is out of whack with her.

I'd also try Tresillian and i really hope things will settle down for you both soon.

[Melinda]

The bedtime routine works a treat here. We started it when Jacob was around 8w old and he came to learn very quickly, that having the bath was associated with a nice big sleep. Everything was very relaxing....a bath with Mum or Dad, nice big feed, dark, quiet, warm room etc etc.

We did things to try and help him distinguish between night and day, e.g. put his bassinette in the loungeroom for sleeps during the day so he was around light/noise. That meant he was only in the dark of a night time. We don't do this any more mind you, as now he's older he much prefers to have the room dark for day time sleeps. But in the early days, that really helped him work out the difference.

I wonder if a hammock might be something she would sleep in? Perhaps she would feel more safe and secure in that as opposed to her cot?

[Mumma2three]

Thanks guys.
I have actually been taking her to my chiro for the last 3 weeks. She poo's like mad on those days. I am going to go to the chemist today for infant friends drops, and Im also going to give her water before each feed. I'll go to my early childhood centre tomorrow and call tresillian!! Hopefully somewhere in there I will find a solution!! Otherwise I'll just have to bear with it!!
thanks for all the advice xoxox

[Trillian]

Gald to hear the chiro helps a bit. i really hope things settle for you soon, or you be a mental wreck from lack of sleep :sleeping: . Hopefully you wont have to bare it much longer.

[BellyBelly]

Another thought, do you wrap her in the cot? As one of the others have said, you need so much patience when transfering them into the cot - they've been in this beautiful, warm, cosy, dark place for eight months and they are then placed in a colder, wider, open place - you can imagine how insecure she probably feels. I noticed you mentioned something about spoiling her or being reliant on the hug-a-bub, you definitely aren't spoiling them, there are many benefits to wearing your baby and the info is all listed in the article on the main site about babywearing, lots of great things come with babywearing including sleep

[Rouge]

I'm really glad the chiro is helping, and I hope the transition gets smoother for you, I know how hard it can be (and we never co-slept LOL!) and I remember at its worst Paris would only sleep in her swing! But if she had warmth of human contact in a similar situation she'd crack it, all babies are sooooooooo different!

I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works here I really have to say I don't like places like tresillian. And this being a gentle forum, I'd say thats ok to say. Why? Because they often want to teach your baby how to sleep their way, instead of teaching the mother the sleeping/tired cues. Every baby is different and what works for one may not work for another. By that I mean if you had an easy sleeper the first time it may not be the same the second time (I wonder if that means I'll get a break this time ROFL). Babies are learning themselves how to sleep, how to interact and how to communicate. In the meantime its up to us as parents to help them in that, gently IMO, and by that I mean read the signs and go with them. I love ideas I love people sharing "what worked for them" but I hate it when someone says "DO THIS" to me no two people are ever going to be the same, and no two babies will sleep the same (even if they seem similar). And the amount of stories I've heard where people go to sleep clinics it all works fine there and then they come home and its not working at all. We should be helping each other look for cues, and telling mothers what they are rather then lets try controlled crying and see if that works *shudder*.

I know not everyone would agree with this, but this is why I am posting it here in the Gentle Forums.

*hugs*
Cailin

[Lucy]

I am also not a fan of Tresillian or other sleep schools either. I have seen so many Mums go along with their babies and then when they come home their confidence in themselves and their babies is even more shot to bits because if their babies are still not settling well, the poor Mum may think it is her "fault" which I really believe it isn't, just that all babies are different and have different habits and stages....JMHO.

My honest advice with little babies and sleep is to take a deep breath, go with the flow (as frustrating & as tiring as that may be) try different solutions, but be mindful that it is only you and Coco that can figure it out together.

Meg, this period is SUCH a short one, I promise. I know that when Olivia was going through this I honestly thought I was going to have a nervous exhaustion breakdown, but in hindsight it was such a tiny amount of time, I am now really glad I just surrendered to it.

HTH

[Mumma2three]

Thanks guys, I appreciate everyone's opinions.
I did do tresillian with DD 1 but only after 8 months, so I wouldn't bother doing it before with Coco, it' would only be if we're still struggling then. Tilly was waking up 6 times a night at 8 months, so for my sanity I needed tresillian.
However, I will give it a few months and try things myself. I don't have to return to work so Im not too worried about being tired. Im hoping we will eventually work out the sleeping ourselves (or Coco will work it out).I'd say a bit has to do with being overtired, I've got to try to get her in bed when I see the signs. It's a bit harder having another one as we're often on the go.
thanks again xox

[Melinda]

Just wanted to share - we went to a Mother & Baby Unit here, but they didn't practice controlled crying or anything like that. It was a HUGE relief to us that that was the case.

They helped us identify what Jacob's tired cues were and then helped us with getting him soundly to sleep - all of which was very hands on with lots of patting, rocking, soothing music - whatever Jacob needed. They were happy to try umpteen gentle and comforting settling techniques so that we could find something gentle that Jacob responded to. There was no letting him cry - one of the first things they said to us is that they believed that controlled crying just teaches the baby that if they need Mummy or Daddy, that they won't come, so it kind of teaches helplessness - and those are not things that DH or I were comfortable with. They also helped us with minor evening routine changes which made all the difference - we found that sometimes the smallest thing being changed can really help, so tweaking our evening routine just a fraction, really helped Jacob a lot.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share that as I don't think all sleep schools are the same - this one definitely wasn't and it was such a relief that that was the case!!! I thought that all sleep schools did CC, so it was very reassuring to know that we were in a place that supported gentle techniques.

[Rouge]

Mel thank you for sharing your story, thats fantastic that your M&B unit was gentle, unfortunately there aren't enough of those around!

*hugs*
Cailin

[Melinda]

You're not wrong Cai! And who would have thought that you'd find one like that here in Hobart!! LOL You can imagine how surprised I was, but obviously very pleasantly surprised!!