Passive Aggression... Why?

[Lulu]

I'd take the whole reference to PA out and actually write what it is she is doing (rather than calling you etc)

[Inanna]

:yeahthat: Again Lulu says in a few words what takes me a whole paragraph!

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Rouge - Thanks for your suggestion, it was probably a bit OTT to use that phrase wasn't it

Inanna - In a perfect world, I'm hoping that by sending her this email, she will actually assist in sorting out the problem that has been created. I don't even care if she pleads ignorance about the whole thing, but it's going to be almost impossible to sort it out if she just ignores it.

I would love acknowledgement, maybe even an apology, but as you say, I highly doubt this would happen

You're right about that sentence, if she has been hurt by something I don't have the right to say she shouldn't be hurt, because its her own view.

As always, thanks for your gentle 'stretching'

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Lulu - Yep, thats in the first part of the letter, I just thought you guys would find that bit boring

[Jellyfish]

Your examples are kind of obvious aggression tho. Backhanded comments that obviously have intent.

But saying that laziness or forgetfulness is PA is assuming intent. I wouldn't assume that DH's behaviour is PA as what a miserable life I would lead believing my husband was mean and manipulative! LOL. I wouldn't like to think people assume there is intent on our part because we're late when we go out.

I would think DH's socks on the floor are habitual.. enabled by me picking the darn things up all the time LOL. I really don't see malicious intent disguised by forgetfulness in it. Whereas me leaving them there and him running out of socks I see as manipulative on my part, cos it would be a "see how he likes running out of clean socks" kind of thing (even if I warned him), when it IS me who does the washing, i'd just like it all put in the hamper. And yet this is being disguised as 'teaching consequences'. I just need to try and break his habit of going into the office and removing shoes & socks. Catch him before he does it and remind him to take them off elsewhere so he can put them in the hamper.

I really think if everyday stuff is taken as PA you would think the world is out to get you and it would be a very miserable existence. I see laziness and even lateness as self serving.. not as mean & manipulative.. which is what I believe PA is. Just as in other threads about nobody can make you feel that way.. there must be an element of over-sensitivity if everyday stuff is deemed to be PA and believing people are being mean and manipulative all the time.

Dh could run late because he doesn't really want to go and subconsciously drags his feet... not cos he's out to get me or to make me look bad. I dunno... I just feel some things are over analysed and taken too personally.

To me, PA is fairly obvious, not disguised. Yes they throw on a disguise as an excuse if called on it, but the intent is blaringly obvious in that first instance.. body language and tone of voice are usually a give away (I'm sure I have a look in my eye when I'm being PA.. in fact I know I do.. and I don't like it). Which is why I don't believe DH's ongoing "I was going to pick them up" is PA.. as in DH's weird little ADD world he probably was going to.. just who knows when? LOL. He cleans up his part of the office now & then LOL.

ETA: yep Lulu - I agree that those things are really something else. Jellyfish's examples are what I see as PA too.. obvious underhanded comments.

Oh yes, I agree. Passive aggressiveness is obvious, its intent is obvious. I just mean that people who use it are trying to mask their aggressive behaviour by pretending it is something else. It is a very see-through disguise, though!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Just about the laundry: my rule helped me. DH put a pair of jeans with a phone in into the basket. His work mobile. That's the second one destroyed in six months when I washed this one last night (first one was sat on... with bolts in back pocket). DH automatically accepted responsibility, despite me feeling a bit bad about not checking pockets. If it had been on the floor, his first reaction would be to blame me.

My mother and sister always run late. My sister believes her lie-ins are more important than getting up and saying goodbye to me and Liebs (not seeing us again for 3-4 months). If I don't wait and wait and delay our leaving, it's classed by both women as me not being nice to my sister. Why? I say I want to leave by 9am, it's now 9.30 and I'm waiting for her to shower so she can walk 2 minutes down the road to say goodbye. I'm annoyed. She is NOT that important that I want an extra hour in the car from traffic. My mum just has "things to do": are they more important than what she has promised to do or turn up to? To her, yes, her tasks are more important than others.

Is that PA? I don't know. It is rude though, IMO.

[Astrid]

I really believe that not all PA is obvious, if it is blatantly obvious it is more just plain rude than PA The really good PA, or should I say bad, is so subtle, but much more damaging as you don't really notice it happening. PA tactics don't work that well if everyone can tell what is happening.

[Lulu]

Nah, LZ - she just thinks she is more important than everyone else.

[Inanna]

I agree completely Astrid. It's not always clear until you go away and think it through. I know for me I sometimes feel uncomfy about an interaction & sort of go through it a bit & sometimes the manipulation becomes clearer...

[Jennifer13]

Spot on, Deb. I find I tend to get sort of an uncomfortable squirmy feeling (plus a pause while we gather our thoughts) when my MIL does something PA and it's only later that I think of a great comeback or that I can analyse it and realise what she was doing. The exception is if you're prepared for PA behaviour (which is harder if you live with someone, I'm guessing). So if we expect MIL's response to a decision by us to be as per her usual then we can prepare how we will react or not to that. And it keeps us on track.

[LionsandBears]

That's why I now have a programmed trigger. Whenever I start to think "am I being unreasonable?" it usually means someone is playing silly buggers - it could be PA or something else, but after years and years of confusion over certain behaviour and going away over-analysing things and getting upset and blaming myself, that's now my big trigger. It now stops me in my tracks. I might not be able to immediately identify just how someone is trying it on, but I'm usually right and with a little bit of standing back and looking at the situation, I can pick it up. Took years though....

In my experience, PA is usually subtle and insidious. It may be obvious in hindsight, but not normally at the time, unless you've trained yourself to identify it or someone is predictable about when they'll start it on.

[Inanna]

I just yelled YES! at my screen Tashy!!! That's precisely my journey too. I would self flagellate & believe I must be being unreasonable. But now I start to feel like whoa! I am being really clear here so what game is being played...

Then usually (hopefully) I step outside the circle and leave it be...

[Toomanytoomany]

Is that really aggressive behaviour? Or just annoying? My poor DH is often left waiting in the car whilst I chat "rubbish" with friends... (me longing for adult company I think!) and he gets a bit narky with me sometimes.. but it's certainly not done to annoy him deliberately.. so I wouldn't call it PA behaviour... in fact I could put it another way and say he's being PA by going and sitting in the car getting narky when I want to stay and chat! LOL I just feel some of the examples are just something someone doesn't like or isn't agreeing with and it's being plastered with the label Passive Aggressive.

It depends if they are doing it to control you or exert some kind of power over you. They are indirectly doing that, hence the phrase passive aggression. There is someone in my family who will ALWAYS keep people waiting, regardless of the severity of the situation. (I'm talking about someone dying in hospital and he *had* to have a shower - that kind of thing.) It isn't just a thing about being disorganised or whatever - it's purely a power play. "you can't go anywhere without me, you are depending on me, and I'm going to make you wait". Drives me nuts.

My dh will also do some minor things in that train, like not tell the kids where we are going when we head off somewhere, or tell them what's for dinner. It's not just annoying - at heart it's about saying, "I have the power. You don't. And I'll decide what information to share with you." Also drives me nuts.

[megs]

This is a great topic, and I have just spent far too much of the afternoon reading the responses.

I fear that I may be PA, or is it just that I have a fear of confruntation.

Background, parents very ugly marriage, my father very manipulative and controlling, if was angry at Mum I would also get silent treatment just becasue I was other female and it could last for over a week. One horrid night he threatened to leave, my brothers got the I love you, I got the I'm sure you'll be glad to see me go. So as you can imagine not a great upbringing, parents been separated for about 7 years and are still no better my father won't even speak to my mother, and Mum just spents her life dredging up the past.

So to me now, I have a lot of trust issues (thank goodness I have met such a loving man) but my issue is with good old MIL and SIL, both can be very shallow and very self absorbed people.

Twice now, last time only in last few months it has come back to me that my SIL has said very hurtful things about me to a large group of her friends (who also live in the small town that I have to live in) now what she has said has come back to me, and I know that she and MIL have been talking about me as the comment was something she didn't know about me only MIL did.

I was hurt and upset however would not allow DH to confront her for fear of causing family unrest, and a fear that I would then be made out to be the petty person and to get over it. SIL was heavily pregnant at time and just before Christmas.

So now the problem is that I don't trust her and don't enjoy her company, constantly question what is being said about me behind my back and it is eating me up. I'm sure I have displayed the odd PA behaviour to her just out of sheer frustration.

And another issue that I am part of a family farm, I have no family near me and whilst would love to spend less time in their presence isn't possible give situation.

So I guess I don't know am I the one with the problem because I'm too sensitive to tense situations, or do I need to learn how to assert myself without fearing the repercussions.

Hope that all makes sense.

[Liz]

It depends if they are doing it to control you or exert some kind of power over you. They are indirectly doing that, hence the phrase passive aggression. There is someone in my family who will ALWAYS keep people waiting, regardless of the severity of the situation. (I'm talking about someone dying in hospital and he *had* to have a shower - that kind of thing.) It isn't just a thing about being disorganised or whatever - it's purely a power play. "you can't go anywhere without me, you are depending on me, and I'm going to make you wait". Drives me nuts.

I still maintain this is assuming intent. And yet isn't this what we are trying to stamp out? People assuming they know what other people are thinking? Mothers feeling judged by other mothers etc etc etc... it's all about assuming what people are thinking. If people jump to horrible conclusions about people's behaviour all the time, we're not going to get very far.

Without the glint in the eye or the body language I'm not going to go around assuming because I'm unhappy with something, that the other person was out to upset me. What a sad thought process to live with

[Lulu]

You certainly would be paranoid wouldn't you?

[Jennifer13]

Without the glint in the eye or the body language I'm not going to go around assuming because I'm unhappy with something, that the other person was out to upset me. What a sad thought process to live with

I still don't assume it, even with MIL who is often PA - I think that's why I get caught out!!!

I think if you grew up with PA behaviour as the norm though it would be much harder NOT to assume others' behaviour is PA. You'd automatically assume it because if somebody in your family behaved in the same way it probably would be PA. Just looking at it from another POV.

[Liz]

Yeah.. and then there's people that are shocked that anyone could do something nice for them, and still hunt for an ulterior motive. I think it's a sad way to be, to be suspicious of anything anyone does