Children of Narcissistic Parents

[Just Me]

I think a PSG would be great. There is so much more that I haven't written here because I am worried about it coming up on a google search and I agree Maya, it does feel like betrayal to put it up. Even the stuff that I write in the members area feels like betrayal anyway ... I think it is all to do with the abuse though. I write it and it feels good to get it out and then I feel guilty, like I am bursting the bubble by saying things and so much effort has been put into maintaining the illusion.

Minnie Mouse - We have no contact with DH's parents but still have contact with mine because we feel like we can manage our boundaries. I wouldn't say our boundaries are respected, but they don't violate them just for funsies like DH's parents did.

This is how it has gone with DH's parents. In 2002 (we were 20 and had been married for a year), PIL manipulated us into giving up a lease on our house we were renting because they needed a house sitter for 5 weeks. I didn't want to do it, but we did. While we were house sitting we signed contracts to build our own home and it seemed like a good idea to live with them while that happened. It was horrible and while things between us were awful before that, living with them made it so much worse. I think it just sped up a process that was happening anyway, but it forced the envelope anyway. We lasted in their house two weeks after they got back before it was more than we could handle and we moved out.

Things got worse and we started setting boundaries - first it was that DH was not to leave me alone with PIL at any point, even to go to the toilet. MIL would launch into full scale attack the second she was alone with me. FIL would hug me and not let go. Because DH never left me alone from this point, I think it got to a point where they stopped waiting for him to leave the room and started doing it in front of him. When he saw what was actually happening he was horrified. We started by trying to talk to them about what was happening. In true NPD fashion - deny, blame, deny.

We set boundaries this time that we told them about - limited contact, told them when we did see them, they were not to touch us. Then they went to live in Germany for a year. When they returned we moved to Brisbane for two years and had very limited contact during that time. We did not have them stay in our house with us and they never came to see us anyway - they came down for other reasons, but not only to visit.

During this time MIL had developed a fetish for inventing weird spiritual reasons to pray over her kids and would wait until DH was alone with her before she needed to pass onto him a 'mantal'. New boundary: MIL is not to pray over DH at all.

We returned to living in the same town as them in 2006. We decided that we really wanted to work on our relationship with them. Managed one visit to their house and they came to our house once before we set the boundary - no visiting. At this point we needed to clarify our boundaries with them so we narrowed it down to three things - they were not to visit us in our home, we would not visit them in their home and they were not to touch us. We continued to work on our relationship with them. We started by laying it all out on the table. We thought it was good and we were doing the right thing by talking about it. In a way it got too much for me and we thought maybe DH could meet with them and work it out on his own.

MIL capatilised on the opportunity to meet with DH and started needing weekly meetings - I think she figured it was a great way to get DH all to herself without having to worry about his pesky wife coming along too. It was really unhealthy so he stopped meeting them in person. We also stopped celebrating Christmas and birthdays with them at this point because it was way too difficult.

At the end of 2006 I got pregnant with DD1. We continued to try and work things out with them - over the phone. We wanted to have it sorted before the baby came along as we didn't want her caught up in it all.

DD1 being born caused them to go into fight mode. I think they got desperate because they felt left out - we didn't have them visit at the hospital (in the end no-one did because I was only there 12 hours). We did give an exception to our boundary about them visiting us at home when DD1 was 2 days old. It was awful and we virtually kicked them out after 20 mins. They launched a full scale attack - calling people to call us and talk to us about them not having involvement with *their* granddaughter.

The card they wrote us when she was born said "We are pleased and priveledged to be grandparents to little M. We are excited about meeting her." It annoyed me at the time and now I know why. In true NPD fashion - no congratulations to us, just a comment to let us know that they were grandparents.

Anyway we decided at this point it was too stressful for us to have them as a part of our lives. They didn't respect our boundaries. In May 2007, we went no contact.

It took them a while to wrap their heads around that meaning that we didn't want them in our lives. About 2 months after we went no contact, we had DD1 dedicated. They weren't invited (actually they were on holidays and we did it at a time we knew there was no chance of them just turning up). They found out from friends when they got back and sent us this card as a congratulations for her dedication: "We were extremely saddened and hurt by not being included in this special celebration. Whatever the reason!!! We forgive you." It was stuck to a post it in the card because we have to keep up appearances.

Anyway, we just ignored them for about six months and then we felt ready to work on things again. They sent us emails every couple of weeks begging us to talk to them so we wrote back to one and said we felt ready to work on our relationship. We thought that rather than focussing on all the things of the past, we were better looking at the kind of relationship we wanted to build with them and started from there. We listed out our boundaries and told them what we expected in a relationship. They fought us every step of the way. They kind of agreed to our boundaries but not really, they said the only thing they expected from a relationship was 'to love [us] unconditionally' (which is completely not possible for them).

They asked us numerous times what they had done 'to deserve such harsh punishment' and constantly said they didn't understand. They took guesses at situations that had caused all of this and excused their behaviour in those situations and blamed us for not setting better boundaries with them. They looked to pin it on one incident so that they could blame, deny and eventually give something that resembled an apology but wasn't really. Narcissists will *apologise* eventually if you push them far enough into a corner but it isn't a real apology and usually it contains a sting of blaming someone else (usually the victim) entirely for their behaviour.

It got to a point of being ridiculous. We had written emails of how crazy they were and felt that it was all too much for us again. Those four weeks caused us so much stress, we decided to cut all contact again. We wrote and said we couldn't do it anymore and this would be the last time they hear from us.

We had no contact with them between November 2007 and December 2009. We hadn't realised how broad their 'spy' network was and told someone (who I thought was just an old friend of my parents and grandparents) our plans for the weekend. PIL turned up a couple of times. We found out six months later how close they were to the other person - even more recently, I have found out one of MY friends who I thought was just really friendly knew about the whole situation from PIL. I went back through my FB inbox recently and had forgotten about a whole heap of PMs she sent me asking for more details of each of my kids' births (we never told PIL about anymore pregnancies/babies). That explained a lot ... I have had trust issues with people because of the things my PIL do and they way they get to us. I feel paranoid. I am at the point now where I have decided I don't care. If they find out about us, I just don't care. I am sick of hiding all the time. If they see photos of my kids, if they have details of my life, screw it. I don't want to live like this ... anyway.

So in December 2009, PIL turned up at something we had planned to attend and stood and waited for us. We saw them and walked in the other direction. They saw us and five minutes later we saw them crying quite hysterically to a group of other people. We left.

We also started getting emails from them saying FIL had retired and they were moving. We were getting last chance emails in the count down to them going - 'five days until we leave, please contact us' sort of thing. We ignored it. We got lots of emails over the two years - inviting us to parties and Christmas all of them seemed to have the expectation that we would attend.

Once they left, they sent us another email to say they had moved. We decided to respond. We wrote and said we might be interested in having a relationship with them via email but nothing more at this point. They immediately asked for photos of our children and information. We emailed them a few photos. They emailed back to say they hadn't left yet, they were just away for a couple of weeks house hunting but would be back for a few weeks to settle things here and wanted to meet with us. Narcissists don't waste anytime in demanding things - a foot in the door is permission to take whatever they like.

We ignored requests for things that we didn't want to give them. We lay low while they were back here and once they had moved properly, we continued to email. Around this time we found out about narcissism. I think we kind of lost all hope that we would work things out with them at this point which was disappointing in some ways but a huge relief in others. We had spend years questioning what was wrong with us and blaming ourselves for not being able to make this relationship work.

We decided to continue emailing but they were putting more and more pressure on us to have more. It started with comments from them about not being able to communicate properly via email and moved into demands for things. We continued to ignore their comments (they weren't really requests - they never asked a question, just made statements/demands).

Around October 2010, we got an email telling DH that FIL was in town and wanted to meet with him and also asking if they were allowed to send our kids a Christmas present. We ignored the comment about FIL but responded to MIL to say that we think a card would be sufficient if she wanted to send our kids something for Christmas. She wrote back:

We would have really like to send our grandchildren M, J and X a little Christmas gift.
If you have decided that that would not be a good idea we will go along with your wishes.
We would have loved to send you all a little Christmas gift each for isn't that what we do at Christmas.

It seems innocent, but there is so much going on in these sentences that it just all felt so overwhelming again. I think if you have a parent with NPD, you can probably see it but to a person with a reasonable parent, this probably looks okay.

At the same time, FIL turned up at our church on Sunday morning and waited out the front for us. You can read about that here: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...me-fil-147387/

From this, we sent them a letter to inform them that their behaviour for the last few years was considered unlawful stalking. We had been in contact with the police who agreed that FIL's behaviour was concerning and told us that we probably had enough for a DVO. We informed them that if they continued to contact us, we would be seeking a DVO. Seemed to fix it because we have not heard anything from them since that email. So we are now in full no contact and it is a permanant thing. It is bliss!

I will probably leave this up here for a couple of days and take it down because there are a lot of details here I don't want popping up on a google search, but I wanted to share

[StrawberryFields]

I think a PSG sounds like a good idea too - I had no idea there would be so many of us when I started this thread! Maybe one of the mods could put up a sticky thread with information and links so that people can become aware if they have a parent with NPD, and then if they feel they do or they need to they can request to join the PSG? I would just hate to think new people to come would miss out on the support if it was solely in a PSG.

I'll see if I can put in a request or something for us

TFB - We move on the Wednesday, so I'm hoping to have pretty much everything unpacked and where we want it by then anyway, but I'm just letting her THINK she can help - we might get her to help clean the yard at the house we're moving out of, give her roundup duty or something - something crappy that nobody else wants to do but she will do because it will make us 'need her'

ETA - I put up a request in the Suggestions and Requests forum, so we will see how it goes from there.

[Miss.September]

how many of us here are no contact ? and if you are are you just "taking a break" and think you will be in contact in the future ? or is it a permanent decision ?

Us. No contact now for almost 5 years.

I'm another reading, and being present.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Thanks, strawbs!
Ah, minnie - she doesn't see it because of that old chestnut "can't treat family and friends"...somehow it's been extrapolated to mean that she's either unable or not allowed to use her skills to improve relations in her own family!

[RainbowBrite]

I definitly think I fit in here but I am very careful what I say in the 'public' area.

[Little Chicken]

Reading this has given me much better insight into my mother. Thankyou all so much for sharing.

[Astrid]

I had no contact with my mother for over 4 years. She was told where to go by DH in the lead up to our wedding. We only got back in contact again due to the death of my sister (apparently I was not allowed to mourn her, I had to have a relationship with our mother, thanks interfering enablers - you suck!). We had on and off contact since that point. Once she went to a nursing home for her dementia I found it better to not talk to her. Family contacting her would get her out of sorts for days, so it was deemed better by the staff that we don't call her directly, but to talk to staff to see how she was.

Due to my mother's death I don't have an issue talking about her, but certainly understand why others need it to be private.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

This is why I'm not on a parenting website in my own country: I don't want my mother finding out anything about me. Even googling my username here doesn't come up with BB in the first few pages. Even so, I'd feel more secure in a closed area.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Can I join if my relative is my sister, not one of my parents? I've been reading all of your experiences, and have had such 'lightbulb' moments - it explains a LOT.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Maybe it can be children of narcissists and affected family? The name of the forum would need to immediately reach out to the children first, because of the power dynamic of the parent/child relationship that really skews how your life turns out. Not saying that siblings aren't affected in important ways, just saying that the effect of having a NM permeates just about every aspect of life, especially when those children have their own families and either accept what their NM mothers have to say about them (and how powerful that opinion can be, whether it is believed or rejected!) or struggle to reconcile their revolt against all that they have experienced of being mothered versus what they know the mothering experience can be (tv, friends, other extended family).
I would say there is definitely a place for siblings - especially if you're concerned for her kids and need strategies to save the sanity of those kids!
I had joined another PSG initially for this problem with my mum, but it doesnt' really fit in neatly there, because it's an ongoing 'crisis' that doesn't really have a resolution, because I'll always have her as my mother, even if I decided on No Contact. And I'd eventually like to pull out of that PSG when other things improve. I just would like that private kind of space to nut it out.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Thankfully she doesn't have kids. I've driven myself insane for years, being the eldest and thinking I need to fix everything and make everyone happy. But no matter how I tried to help her, it was never enough. And then other people would tell me things that she had said, horrible, nasty things. I never believed them until recently, Mum got her a job where she worked, and she started lying to the boss, trying to get Mum fired!

It makes me question the things she's told me, and the things I've done to try and help her with these situations when they may not have even existed....she's brilliant at pointing the finger everywhere but herself, and never EVER sees her responsibility in anything. Professor and I have recently gone no contact with her, which is a shame, I don't think her husband understands our position. I don't actually think he realises what she does, the horrible, spiteful emails she's been sending to our parents, the phone calls. She invited us to her anniversary lunch in a few weeks - I don't know what to do. I know other family are going, and if none of her immediate family are there, they'll ask questions and make it a religious thing. Not to mention, it'll be held against us for millenia to come. But if we go, we'll probably be the only ones....plus it means I hafta nod and smile when she says these lies.

Is there actually any treatment, a medication or something?

[~Lashes~]

would love if its made private.
(one of 2 reasons why i havent posted much, seccond being my own hang up of feeling over-dramatic!)

[cjane]

totally agree that making this thread private would be good and also a PSG that is private. Would really help people.

[Starfish]

I agree with the PSG idea. I too haven't posted much because I do feel guilty every time I share something, because at the back of my mind I have the doubt: Was this really how it was, or am I being oversensitive and overdramatic yet again? Every time I was upset about anything when I was growing up I was just told that it was my problem and I was an over sensitive drama queen, and to suck it up and shut up...

[Just Me]

I feel exactly the same way Starfish. I was told the same things so I blame myself for everything that happens all the time. I have a lot of guilt and spend a lot of time wondering if I am over reacting and over sensitive. Even in this thread I feel like a fraud. I have to remind myself that my experiences are valid but I feel like I am reading other people's threads with *real* issues and I am making mountains out of mole hills.

There is so much more I would say if we had a PSG.

[NaeNae]

I have been reading from the sidelines and am too worried about posting too much etc in here. A PSG would be wonderful.

JustMe I honestly cannot thank you enough, all your words and experiences while mine don't always seem as bad I can relate SOOOO much to things you write. Thank you for sharing, I was really beginning to wonder if I really had "issues" like my father and mother seem to think I do and since reading yours and everyone elses stories I have realised that yes I have issues but not in the way they expect. Coming to terms with a life of torture and abuse is a pretty big thing but clarity is a powerful healer.

I hope the mods make this a PSG it really is needed!!

[toomanyshoes]

I certainly have pulled back with the posting in here because it seems to be getting a lot of traffic and I feel a little uncomfortable having some of this being so widely read and searchable.

[deletedit]

Perhaps once a PSG is made (another vote for that btw) then the mods can move this thread there?