Cjane my mum is like that too, but now I am wiser and have kids I am stronger and dont give her a chance to take control. She keeps up a fuss but I stay firm, she always had to have christmas at her house so my dad missed out, but now there are grandkids I don't want them missing out on being with all their family.
I have decided to ring my local GP to discuss things with him and see what recommendations he can make. I just don't know what to say when I sit down with him. Sopdet gave me some great ideas when she visited, but I am really worried I am going to come across completely nuts even if I say something along the lines of :
"I was having a discussion recently about the problems mum and I seem to have continuously and it was suggested I do some reading into Narc Parents. When I did read up on Narc parents my mother ticked quite a few boxes and I suspect she has an undiagnosed NPD, now that I am aware of the problem quite a lot of the torments I have faced over the years suddenly make sense. I am just wondering where do I go from here?"
I just don't know how that would be received and I am scared I am going to come across as nuts as mother and father and all the relo's and all the close family friends that I have not seen in years, think I am.
Help
Nae
OH Side note Just Me (and others) I have a question ... is it normal for Narcs to do something like this? ..... A few years ago my uncle and his fam were coming down for a visit. First I was told it would be a fri, sat, sun stay and I mentioned this to mum and she emailed me to say that they'd be down Tues, Wed, Thurs so I swapped my shifts so I had the TWT off work. I had emailed uncle but as he rarely reads emails Mum was kind of the go between. I sent uncle an email saying that I had swapped the shifts. 3 days before that weekend mum rang and said they were looking forward to the weekend and I remember arguing with her about the fact that I had changed my roster because she told me they were coming through the week instead. She flatly denied the email and told the family I had organised the shifts for when they visited which was SO not the way I work. I ended up so confused over the matter that went back through all my deleted sent emails but it must have been permanently deleted I couldn't find any from around that date so without any proof I doubted my recollection. Even now I second guess myself, but I know how much I was looking forward to their visit so it doesn't sound like something I would do in that situation.
ANYHOO
what do I say to the Dr? I am so worried I am going to come across nuts but I feel I need to do this not just for my own peace of mind but so I CAN actually say if questioned that I HAVE seen someone about my mental state *cough*
Nae - My mum flat out denies things as well. I know that feeling of second guessing yourself very well, "Is that really what happened, maybe she's right" and so on. I think it's important to trust my instincts, I know what she said even if she wont acknowledge it.
Perfectly normal Nae. My MIL has sent us emails saying one thing and when we question her, she says the opposite. We have the emails to prove it and she still denies it or says that we misunderstood.
There are a couple of things going on in that situation with your mum. The first is gaslighting ... Gaslighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (because believe it or not there is actually a name for it) and the second is triangulation ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology) except in your situation, she has set herself up to be the third party. She probably really enjoys being in the middle of all family relationships because that is how she maintains control.
With the GP - I think it depends what your GP does and doesn't know about NPD. If you have a good GP that you trust definitely bring it up with him/her, otherwise maybe you could just ask for a referral to a psychologist that specialises in family relationships. Just tell him that you have issues from your childhood and you have ongoing anxiety and you would like to talk to someone about it. Just a thought anyway if you are worried about telling your GP about NPD. The thing is, if you come across nuts to the GP, you are still likely to get a referral which is the main thing. Just a thought anyway
Yup Nae, my mum does that too. Or she'll agree to a date to do something then turn around and say she would never agree to that date and say she agreed to a different one.
Or she'll say she's asked me to do something, or told me something X amount of times and she never said anything. At least my dad would back me up in those cases and confirm that I was actually right and she never said anything about said thing to anyone.
Yup, my mother does that too. I have a very good memory, most encounters with her are stored as a script and I can quote her back. Sadly few others can. I also keep all e-mails. Sadly she lies to others about things I have said, which makes it a bit harder. Also, if I tell her any "big" news it is a race to ring round all the relos because she tells them first. Hence her not being told when we get a house until after we move and not ever being told anything about a pregnancy if it happens again. I have been really hurt by this! (But am going to tell the people she calls "nasty, secretive" relatives just to share it with family!)
I grew up thinking my mother either had a very bad memory or just hated being wrong. If she was caught out on a breaking a promise, she would get so mad and say I was making things up. Gee, I forget things with the girls, but if I realise, I say sorry and make it up if I can.
My gut feeling is that they do have a memory problems and the NPD just wont let them admit it. It is very sad, as my mother developed very bad dementia (the worst the social workers had seen in a women her age). It was hard for us to pick up as the forgetting things was normal, her being self obsessed was normal (narcissism is a trait that often appears with alzheimers).
I have such mixed feelings about NPD. Yes, I believe my mother suffered from it, but I do believe that she was almost a split personality, there were glimpses of the decent person at times, but then there was the NPD one. I know in my heart that NPD brought on her dementia so early and so bad. My mother had been diagnosed with severe depression in her later years, combine that with the NPD (her not admitting that there was anything wrong) and in the end her brain just fried itself.
Oh Astrid, that's so sad about your mum. My Grandma had alzheimers too. It was hard because we were so close and she slipped away a little bit at a time. She wasn't NPD though but did start to show some narcissistic traits but I think that was about survival. She wasn't mean but was very self focussed, I think she just had no idea what was going on. But I understand how hard it can be to see someone you love struggle with losing their memory (and pretty much their mind).
The link between alzheimers and NPD is interesting. I read somewhere that alzeheimers and age often cause the NPD to become more obvious because they lose all their inhabitions and forget about the little social ettiquette that they do have and so what they are really thinking becomes more obvious. I haven't had any personal experience with it but I thought it was an interesting article.
Nae - I agree with Justme - probably best to say to the GP that you are wanting a referral to a psych as you are feeling anxious and depressed. They will then do a mental health assessment with you and ask you a stack of questions about how you are feeling and rate you on a scale. They have to do this in order for you to qualify for the 6-12 sessions that you can then arrange for a rebate through Medicare. I think that is all that the GP needs to know - the psych is probably the best one to talk to about your experience with a narcissitic parent.
And yes also agree with the others. The way your mum reacted withyour uncles visit - something that many narcissitic parents would do. This is because they are jealous of relationships that others have, so it would suit her for you not to spend any special time with your uncle as she would feel as though firstly she has the potential to be left out, and secondly that you could form a closer bond with your family that excludes her and opens her up to the chance that you might talk about her.
So my mother and I have been getting along pretty well lately - quite to my amazement! She hasn't been calling anywhere near as often and its been great for our relationship.
But the other day she decides to ring and somehow we get onto the topic of when the babies will be born, and she said I should ask for them to be born on her birthday and how cool would that be...I won't even be 34wks by then! When I explain this to her, and how bad it would be for the babies to be born that early, she gets ****ty at me saying 'what would I know' and 'people do it all the time'. I don't know who 'people' are but I have a feeling they're either made up or idiots. And I thought we were making progress...
At least she's stopped nagging me for belly photo's for the moment. Urgh. It ****es me off so much when people ask me for belly photos.
She's coming to stay with us next weekend to help us settle into the new house. She was coming up here for work on the Friday anyway (so she says) and we will need the help so I'm hoping everybody will make it out alive come Sunday night!
I've just realised why I'm not hearing from my mother very much at the moment. One phone call a fortnight if I'm lucky.
[Sis has bigger things in her life than me atm]. I had a nice long chat with Sis about it all on Friday and said our mother was a narc - she agreed immediately! I am hoping it helps her. She still thinks our mother loves us - not for ourselves she doesn't, only as extentions of herself.
Last edited by Ca Plane Pour Moi; July 27th, 2011 at 04:49 PM.
Oh SF that's awful about wanting the babies born so early so they would share her birthday. At least you have a valid excuse even if she doesn't think it is. Can you imagine if they had to share a birthday with her? She would probably like it for now but then she would probably be cranky that the attention is going to your kids on HER birthday. I hope her visit goes okay this weekend.
TFB - Your poor sister! At least you were able to have a good conversation with her and hopefully it bring her some relief. It is hard to come to terms with the idea that you have a parent that doesn't really love you - even if it makes complete sense and you know that it is true. She might come to understand better as time passes.
TFB your poor sister, my mum was the same and she has started to try and plan my brothers wedding and they aren't even engaged! I heard her talking to my dad at a dinner for my brothers gf this weekend so gave her a heads up, she was horrified!
I'm moving in with mum for the two weeks before the wedding just to take the pressure off my sister. Plus I promised last year I'd be on alert on the day itself and keep mum occupied and away from Sis. Much as it's a pain for me, it's worth it.
...
Last edited by Ca Plane Pour Moi; July 27th, 2011 at 04:50 PM.
Oh, boy.
Hi.
Just been reading and thinking and reading and thinking.
FWIW, that EFT or 'tapping' is really, really good - probably spend the money doing it with an IRL practitioner, though. I did it with my HypnoBirthing teacher and at the end she asked if there were any other issues. I said I was scared of being like my mum (not that she's ALL bad, but definitely things I didn't want to pass on!) and we did EFT. What a weight loss program!
Anyhoo, lots of things are flooding my brain - my sister's wedding, DS's birth, DP and I getting together, my first 'boyfriend', when I decided to go against the way I was raised (ha ha!) and go clubbing, ummm...the list goes on, but it's not as extensive as some others'. She comes and goes on these things, it's not entirely consistent but I feel that she would if she were less aware.
She's a clinical psychologist. There-in lies a compounding factor - what would I know? I'm studying psych and every year I pass it's a matter of "well, you haven't learned yet about x,y,z", so that's why I couldn't possibly be right about such and such. I know she's scared of me being a psych, even though she's very supportive of me studying. Reading the website has shed light on some of this, though - I'm often the extension of her ("I wouldn't have done it that way" - ummm, cool, cos I'm not you) so she's proud that her daughter wants to study psych. She also knows that I tend to be very good at what I turn my attention to (even if my uni marks don't always reflect that ;P ). So, I believe she's scared that I'm onto her.
Lately she's been mentioning the need for us to 'have a real talk'. Apparently, there wasn't enough time the last time (phew!). I'm hoping, like last time, that I can keep things on an even enough keel that she doesn't see the need to push for this talk. There is no point. Even she will say "nothing changes even when we talk" - but that's designed to say it's MY fault nothing changes. Nothing changes because there's nothing wrong with her, that's what the problem is! So, now that I have been a bit more aware of her patterns and I've talked at length about this with my sister (the Golden Child, on a much lesser scale than on the website, and with reversed characteristics that are more in line with infantalising - I get the money and the things more than my sister does!), I feel I can fend off her criticisms and maneouvres better, without having to go through the crap that a 'talk' will bring up.
I have chosen to maintain contact. There are things I know about my mum, other things I have guessed at that she isn't aware of (she thinks she's right on top of those lies upon lies) that I won't tell her I know, that help me understand how she is the way she is. DP thinks that's making excuses. It's not. It's realising what I'm dealing with and that she's not gonna change unless she strips bare - and I'm afraid that something like that would do her in so much that she'd self-harm before she could rebuild herself. She is very damaged from an awful childhood in a developing country, and she had a similar relationship with her own mother - she passed while they were kind of unreconciled.
My mum's a raging Christian as well. Nuff said.
I DO believe she is capable of love and that it gets caught up in this program of survival she has sometimes, so that it's hard to tell. If she didn't have NPD she'd be dead. She would have suicided years ago. I do believe it has kept her alive because the child brain that developed this disorder had very little options and that's how it adapted.
But, yeah, I very much get the "No-one cares about my feelings" (Umm, no, they don't - I'm the one who just had a baby and you're sooking because you had your phone off - totally denied btw - and couldn't get DP's phone call - the one he made first in order to avoid this whole drama - to hear the news first....oh, and that plot thickens...can't be bothered anymore!), "You're selfish, inconsiderate, dramatic, defensive (I've been this for a very long time, and in fact I believe I have come to actually BE defensive because of being critiqued for so long) etc".
I won't go into it, you guys all know it from your own lives. Just to say "present" in this group. Would be good to have it as a PSG, cos I can't get round the idea that having it on a public area of the forum is a 'betrayal' - and I've had a whole lifetime of being told what has to stay within family, and covering lies and telling lies in order to keep ridiculous things in the family.
Is this possible, please? Just that a few of us are bound to give some details that could be more identifying (if you knew what to look for and were of stalkery material!), or that we'd much rather divulge knowing it was private.
Sorry to be in here with you girls, though I'm pretty glad I'm in great company
Nae - your mum and my mum, it's a mum-off!
Ladies. This describes my mother to a tee. I have no contact and its healthier for me and my life. She was a pschiatric (sp?) nurse for 20 years and thinks shes got people believing her. Im upset with the fact iv never had and never will have a relationship with her. But its life unfortunately x
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strawberryfields: i can't believe your mum thinks its a good idea for you to deliberately have your babies so early so they are born on her birthday !
the flying butter: what a lovely sister you are to move in with your mum for now and take the pressure off your sister, i hope she has a wonderful wedding day and it isn't spoiled by your mum
mayaness: interesting your mum is a psychologist, how does she not see what she is doing ? i too would like to see this as a PSG, i don't really like the idea of this thread coming up in a google search.......
how many of us here are no contact ? and if you are are you just "taking a break" and think you will be in contact in the future ? or is it a permanent decision ?
i am no contact, it is my birthday in a few days and im wondering if my mother is going to do something or just ignore it, puts me on edge actually
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that's awful about wanting the babies born so early so they would share her birthday. At least you have a valid excuse even if she doesn't think it is. Can you imagine if they had to share a birthday with her? She would probably like it for now but then she would probably be cranky that the attention is going to your kids on HER birthday. I hope her visit goes okay this weekend.
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