Women's Illnesses - A Social Stigma

[Aimz]

I have all these thoughts swimming around my head and I really need to get them down because they are bothering me. This topic brings back memories from my social studies class and some points are from what I have been taught and are not necessarily my personal views. I?m just asking the questions.

It started last week when my boss advised me of another staff member?s miscarriage. For the purpose of this entry I will call her CW. CW had only just announced her pregnancy and took a week?s sick leave to deal with her loss. My boss asked me to organise flowers and I sent her a card saying we were all thinking of her and how sorry we were for her loss. She returned yesterday and emailed me a note of thanks, expressing how grateful she was for the support. I emailed her back and asked her if she wanted to go out for coffee sometime and she agreed. We have never been particularly close, but I think she really needed someone to talk to.

CW told me how she was nervous to come back to work as everyone would know what had happened and would be feeling sorry for her. But instead, she said it was the complete opposite. Instead, people were dodging her at every turn and when they did need to see her about a work matter they were speaking briefly and light heartedly ? almost nervously, as if she was about to break (especially the men). She said that only three people had given her their condolences and nobody else was willing to even bring it up with her. She said she felt very isolated and alone. CW then went on to ask the question that has been ringing in my mind ?Why don?t we talk about these things??

Why don?t we? I know that even I was nervous to bring it up with her. Perhaps my knowledge gained from BB allowed me some insight ? I knew she would need a friend.

I remember last year when my Grandfather died. My work was so incredibly supportive. I was sent flowers, given the week off, my boss attended the funeral and people gave me lots of hugs upon my return to work. I was so fragile and the support from my colleagues really helped me return to normal. People didn?t dodge me. They asked each day how I was doing, how my Mum was doing and how the funeral was. Sometimes I got sad ? but people were even more supportive at that point.

So why is CW?s situation any different to mine? It is still a loss of life. A loss of a family member. Why isn?t she being consoled in the same way?

I discussed this further with another work colleague who has gone through breast cancer (5 years in remission). I will call her KW. KW told me that when she had breast cancer she went through the same thing that I just discussed. People found it really hard to talk about it with her and found it really uncomfortable when she brought it up. She said that it was probably because breast cancer can be a terminal illness and that in itself has a stigma attached to it. It could also have been because she had no hair. But KW maintains the main reason behind peoples fear of discussing it was because it is a ?Women?s Illness? and that carries the biggest stigma of all. Her husband began cheating on her during her illness and they legally separated before the end of her treatment. After one heated fight he admitted that he no longer felt sexually attracted to her and went looking elsewhere. During the same year that she was cleared of cancer, her ex husband married the woman that he had been cheating on her with. It was bittersweet for KW.

This really got me thinking. Is there a difference between men?s/unisex illnesses and women?s illnesses? So I tried it out on a couple of DH?s colleagues last night. I wasn?t looking for a moment to bring something up ? it kind of just happened and I jumped at the chance. I was having a casual chat to one of the girls and next to her was one of the boys. She was telling me that she recently had a tetanus shot and that her arm had been incredibly tender. The guy said he still remembered his tetanus shot from when he was 12. So I brought up the topic of the cervical cancer vaccine, asking her if she had been vaccinated. It was almost instantaneous. The guy wandered into the back office and rummaged around for something and then started talking to DH. I couldn?t believe it, it was almost too easy. I predicted that would happen and it actually did, meanwhile the girl was oblivious to him leaving and went on to discuss the three injections that she had had.

Is there a different social acceptance between a woman?s illness and a man?s illness?

Was he uncomfortable because the word ?cervix? is associated with the word ?vagina?? I think that is exactly why he left the room.

Why is that that things like vitamins, common colds, melanomas, bee stings and allergies are commonly and openly discussed, but things like the pill, miscarriages, breast cancer, cervical cancer, hormones, infertility and the like are not?

Are these issues put away behind closed doors by society? Are these issues seen as taboo because we are women?

Here is my opinion. Women are seen as sexual. We have a mystery about us that men don?t. While their sexual organs are openly present, ours is hidden ? therefore making us, to some extent, a sexual organ as a whole. Our legs, bums and breasts are all parts of our bodies that turn men on. To some, women are ?sex on legs?.

But I am sure that when I woman is dealing with breast cancer (and I use this as an example after discussions with KW) she doesn?t think of her breasts in a sexual way. So is this why we feel uncomfortable about discussing these issues? Is it human nature to think of sex when we think of women? Is the reason something like breast cancer has a stigma attached to it because we see the female?s breast as a sexual symbol?

What about infertility? That also has a stigma attached to it. It is very rarely openly discussed in an everyday public setting. But why? Is it because of the cultural pressures within society that married couples must reproduce?

Why is menopause seen as an illness? It is guaranteed to happen to every woman so it is clearly not an illness. But it is treated as one. I think it is because it represents the end of the reproductive years and therefore eliminates a woman?s ability to bear children ? ?discrediting? her femininity and social identity.

Do these issues damage a woman?s social identity? Is that why people shy away from openly discussing these topics? Would society rather be in denial and continue to view women as the sexual creatures that they are perceived? Women?s illnesses distort that view.

Is a woman?s inability to carry a child reflective of ?failing? as a woman? No it?s not.

Does a woman?s diagnosis of breast cancer mean that she is damaged goods? No it doesn?t.

I don?t have an answer to any of these questions, nor a solution. But I do think that this is why these topics are not discussed in an everyday social setting.

I think it is essential that a woman be able to talk about these issues. That is why forums such as the ones on BB are so amazing. We are talking and sharing and supporting each other through everything. If only every day society could be the same. But I think getting this kind of support in the real world is more difficult, especially support from men (who are not close to you).

I think that women who have ?Women?s Illnesses? cop this stigma because they have an illness which relates to their sexuality.

This may be seen as controversial topic but I really needed to get that down as it has been on my mind for days. What better place to discuss this than right here on BB.

[Phteven]

I'm not sure that it's such a male/female issue.
It might be more about what people consider private/public.
There is also a lot of silence around prostate and testicular cancer and many people are a bit funny about bowel cancer.
I think that if it's illness related to our sexual and/or reproductive organs that it is often more taboo. Same with anything to do bodily waste and the associated areas like piles or bowel cancer or UTIs.

I've noticed the same thing with mental illness. When one of my freinds was hospitalised because of bipolar disorder people didn't bring her flowers yet if it had been her kidney that was sick not her brain I'm sure she would have had a ward full of flowere.

[paradise lost]

I agree with Dach, i have spoken to many male friends who were shunned/ignored after a miscarriage or after prostate or testicular or fertility issues. I think part of it with miscarriage is people don't know how you feel so they don't know what to say. I have had everything from "i'm so sorry" to "It must be a relief" in response to my miscarriages, because my pregnancies were unplanned. I know some women who WERE relieved to lose an unplanned pregnancy they hadn't decided to keep yet anyway. And some women are gutted by a 5 week loss, whereas others don't feel the same connection until the 2nd tri. It's very personal and people don't want to get into it.

When my mum died work sent me flowers and when i returned my boss took me out within an hour of my arrival to let me talk out what had happened and how i was going with it all, but after that i was treated completely normally. TBH i was grateful that a blind eye was turned to my random tears for the first few weeks. I didn't want to have to keep saying what was wrong.

Same with mental disorders. It is as if there are some things which aren't in the realm of normal daily discourse and when the problem lies with those things, well, people don't know how to approach it. I know one man who was dismissed by other men on an AC board because he had RE (retarded ejaculation) and so they had to have IVF, with a needle aspiration to get his swimmers. The view among the other men was that there was nothing "really" wrong (they had various other types of issue from varicocele to azoospermia) and he just didn't fancy his wife enough or something! Even having a medical problem themselves didn't give them compassion for his problem - they could all ejaculate and saw the problem he had as "his fault" or something. Ridiculous!

So no, i don't think it's a "woman's" thing, but a "suitable for conversation" thing. If you never talk about cervixes, the first time being about a cancerous one is going to be hard.

Bx

[Aimz]

I don't pretend to know everything - especially on a subject as broad as this one. Perhaps my opinions were generalised to some extent but I was only going off my observations over the past few days.

I completely agree with both of you about the men's issues (prostate, testicular, infertility etc) as well as mental issues (my friend is bipolar). These issues, along with those mentioned are all to some extent "shunned" by society and are left to be discussed behind closed doors.

I just found it very interesting to observe what people were comfortable talking about and what they weren't comfortable talking about - even people who I am relatively close to.

[Aimz]

Sometimes even my own DH screws his face up when things like heavy periods, thrush, UTI's and sore nipples are brought up. That is not to say that he won't talk about it with me, but it's not his favourite topic. I think that is because I am his wife, his friend and his lover and things like the above mentioned "get in the way" of me being sexual. That is my opinion, not necessarily his.

[Bathsheba]

I missed this the first time it was posted Amy... very interesting... *mulling for a while*

[Footsteps]

amy,
its sooo true, my own dp goes quiet when i talk about womens prob atm the gynae has told me im gna need a hystorectomy and he wont really say much...female probs are a taboo i think huni iv noticed that with alot of things y i dont know y... men dont talk about their probs either.
you av brought up a very good point huni.
xxx

[Aimz]

Wow I haven't seen this post for months! I'm not sure if I quite agree anymore with some of the points I raised but certainly some of them are valid. I'm interested in what you have to say Bath.

[butterfly_warrior]

I also missed this the first time... And the thoughts running through my head as I read went along similar lines to Dach and Bec. I think it's just a typical male response. Try talking to them about male illnesses and see what happens. I seriously doubt they'd stay in the room for a discussion about penile cancer, testicular cancer, impotence, and there's very few of them will talk about infertility!

I also want to add that the people around me end up with no option but to be faced with these things. I talk quite openly about our infertility and our IVF journey with our friends and my colleagues. There are some young single men that I worked with (and some not so young!) that have gained a damned good understanding of what it actually takes to get pregnant, stay pregnant and now know that being pregnant isn't just simply growing an enormous bump and having everything else in your body remain the same.

I'm not entirely sure whether it's an aspect of life that is changing and people are becoming more willing to talk about these things, or it's just that I've changed the people I associate with because they had no choice but to be confronted with these things.

BW

[Trillian]

I only just saw this now too LOL. I'm with Dach and Bx on this one - it's not that it's a female issue, its that its a personal one and you would find the same response with the *male* ilnesses too. People just don't know what is the appropriate way to act upon hearing news of a pg loss or *female* illness - both males and females so they just shuffle around the topic, they acknowledge it, but not address it kwim?

[paradise lost]

I do think now, with a few more experiences under my belt (of peoples' attitudes, not loss or illness thank goodness) that part of this problem is to do with what people talk about under NORMAL circumstances. In the absence of illness, after a perfectly normal pregnancy and delivery most people (myself not included ) STILL wouldn't ask after anything physical. It's not the same everywhere - Sheila Kitzinger writes about once not lang after the birth of her first baby she was at a posh dinner with many ambassadors and the French ambassador, a middle-aged man, on hearing of her recent arrival leaned across the table and called out "And do you have plenty of milk for the baby?" - that would be considered in poor taste in the UK and pretty much scandalous in the US.

In a society that NEVER EVER wants to discuss even a normal healthy situation relating to fertility, reproduction etc., why WOULD we suddenly be able to handle it when then there's a problem. XP has taught DD to says "Don't kick dada in the testiclay!" but you should see him blush if she makes reference to her vagina with the proper word!

Bx

[~Aveta~]

it's a curly one. as a complementary therapist, i chat to both men and women about their health problems, in the treatment room. it's not something i'd bring up in general conversation, no do i think a man would be willing to chat about his prostate if he wasn't seeing me on a professional level, KWIM?

but i agree, women's particular health issues do seem to be squirm-worthy for men. my ex-H could never talk to me about it, admittedly he was an older generation, but DF and i can talk about a lot, probably because of all we've been through this last year. he'll still dry-retch at the sight of my period blood if we're in the shower together, but i think that's more his weak stomach, lol.

i'm going to think about this more and get back to you.