Can I bag out other sites??

[Trillian]

When I say that there is no right or wrong way to do it, I don't mean that to let a child cry itself to sleep is OK (and I mean really cry, not just protest cries), if that's the parenting ideal you subscribe to (*you* being the generic), because if you do, you aren't addressing the needs of the child by doing it, so sometimes there is a wrong way kwim? And a lot of what you've listed Kimbaz is actually recommended on the back of some strong evidence to suggest that this is the way to do things - again, not necessarily the right way, but an alternative way if you need it.

[Willow]

is actually recommended on the back of some strong evidence to suggest that this is the way to do things

I would be interested to know how many have actually read this research??

[Trillian]

You mean the site administrators Willow? Or the mums?

[Willow]

Mums (which I guess includes the site admins but don't get the distinction)...

[Trillian]

Its not always information that is easily attainable. How many people know exactly where to look on the WHO website for the new BF baby growth charts? It isn't the easiest info to find and often its just via word of mouth that we find out stuff like this. But I think that if you are going to run a site that is providing information to mums, both new and old, then it is your duty to make sure that the advice is sound. Even if that site is pro-smacking/controlled crying/gentle or attachment parenting, then you still need to back that up with good, solid unbiased information, not just anecdotal items. It does make me wonder though considering the nature of who runs that site what their intentions are and how much of a vested interest do they have in it.

[Willow]

I actually meant how many BB mums had read this 'reasearch'.

I see a lot of vague references to it but wonder how many have actually read it.

[paradise lost]

Willow i have read a great deal on child development and as such i know where my limits are and WHY i'm doing what i do with DD. For me that is the key to me feeling like a good parent. What i do might not beget immediate or visible results, but i know WHY i'm doing them. I don't smack because i don't believe for normal children it is helpful. I do however know that rough handling can actually HELP some children with certain handicaps because it helps their brain to re-connect to the body (i'm not talking about beating, i'm talking about the sort of action one would employ on the back of a choking child).

Parenting is a very individual set of challenges. What works for one child really WON'T work for them all. I had a friend staying this past weekend and her 2 year old is SO different to mine. Our parenting styles are similar. Our children are not.

"Gentle" is subjective. To me it is not gentle to give a newborn who is trying to sleep eye contact, but others have obviously found within their families it works great and everyone is happy. To me it is not gentle to provide no routine to a child's day because it doesn't allow them to feel secure in their rythmn, but for some families it works. I know people who won't let their kids choose which clothes to wear and people who let their kid play xbox all day at "homeschool" because "it's their life" even when the child is 8 years old! What's good for one is not good for all. The same can be said of so many of the choices parents are forced to make every day.

Do you know my DP often doesn't give me eye contact in bed. When we are physically close like that just one look into my eyes tips him over the edge and "it's all over". His avoidance of my loving, passionate gaze is the biggest compliment he could pay me. Love is shown in many ways. The way the love is shown is not a useful measure for an outsider to guage how much love is there.

Bx

[sushee]

Willow,

I read heaps when I had my younger kids - without family nearby it was the only way I could prepare myself. But in the end, I followed my instincts a lot.

I'm recently had the need to read quite a lot on secure attachment and responsive parenting, thanks to uni and a uni assignment I was researching. It was interesting so I undertook a lot of my own research for and against (and I'm still going in between other assignments). It's all in hindsight as Charlie is now 2, but was amazed at the amount of studies out there regarding this stuff.

[BellyBelly]

The problem is sites like that (and the government's parenting site is also bad for this) but they are big corporate/governent sites which reek of 'quality/recommendation' (iykwim) are advocating one way to do things to fix certain problems. No-one here is bagging anyone's choices and why should it matter to me - I don't have to live with your kids - you do. So you need to do what's right. It just makes me cross that naive people looking for desperate help are going to read that one way and think there are no other options if it doesn't work. Like Pinky has found, she works with mothers who think their babies doesn't love them anymore as the babies don't give eye contact back. One mother distressed that her child went as far to stop seeking her for comfort and went to their sibling instead... so there is much proof/evidence - the people picking up the pieces see it every day. And thats not to say this will happen for everyone but this is what happens when advice goes bad.

And it's interesting because you only need to read past threads like the car seat debate in which some people posting in this very thread have done a similar thing of saying, 'Oh I wouldn't do that/you shouldn't do that.' Just because it relates to a parenting method why should we not be able to say we wouldn't do it? You can always ignore the thread, apparently the ignore thread button has disappeared with the recent upgrade but I will put it back so people can not feel attacked (which I do not think has happened in here). Certainly no-one has actually reported any posts anyway. I'd hope we can all be grown ups and have a grown up convo anyway without this turning into a huge debate. So what if people don't do what you do - as they always say, take it with a grain of salt and do what works for you.

[paradise lost]

Kelly that proof you just cited is anecdotal but from a different point of view and is no more scientific than anything else.

The initial site this was about DID NOT SAY NO EYE CONTACT. It said that reducing eye contact during wakeful periods at night could help a child to get off to sleep by preventing them getting over stimulated. There IS scientific evidence to back this up, just as there is scientific evidence to show that NEVER giving eye contact causes disassociative disorders and attachment issues in children.

I kind of agree with the point that the other sites are only offering one way, but then so is BB; you offer an alternative way. They are as much an alternative to you as you are to them. And yes, it sucks that that naive people will go to either place and think the way they find there is the only way, but there is a shortage of places which offer advice on ALL the ways, and i suppose ultimately parenting is a learning curve and people will pay for their naivety and learn from it.

Lots of people say "i wish i'd known..." about parenting choices, but just as many, when you tell them something that doesn't fit in with the way they think is "right" don't want to hear it. If the authors of the Science of Parenting wrote a new book tomorrow about how actually they were wrong and smacking IS good for kids and the WHO retracted the statements about BFing and said FFing was as good or better those of us who choose to BF and not smack probably wouldn't change our ways. It's nice to find some "evidence" to back up what we are choosing to do anyway, but anyone can do that. Want to AP and BF - the WHO and Dr Sears will back you up. Want to beat your kids with plumbing hose - the Pearls and the NoGreaterJoy website will tell you why it's great and how it works. Lots of doctors have written lots of books and lots of "natural" 3rd world mothers with wildly varying parenting habits haven't read any of them. The right way is the way that feels right to the individual family.