Article: Suck On This

[Carrie]

My mum also breastfed all of us (her 4 girls) until probably around 12 months and my oldest sister BF her three children. So I just expected to be able to BF too - was looking forward to it.
Even when Kyla was born early I just thought that I wanted to BF as soon as was possible and it never occured to me that there would be a problem....I said as much to a nurse at the hospital, that I wanted Kyla fully BF when I went home..she replied "you might be lucky" as if it was not at all likely to happen..It was only at this point that it occured to me that I may not be able to. Although they gave me a lot of support at the hospital.... I would think that this kind of negative starting point in the nurse cannot be helpful.

Oh..and I definately will BF my next (if I'm lucky enough to fall pg)...I've already mostly weaned myself off of the effexor (now on only 75ml! And feeling fine!), so this will not be an issue.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Wow, reading through all the replies has really made me think some more. I no longer want to BF or plan to BF - I am GOING to BF. I think you'll all right about attitudes towards it from the mother.

However, a lot of the diseases have risk factors other than BF/FF (such as socioeconomic factors as children grow up and the mother's eating patterns during pregnancy - these higher risks generally occur in the lower classes, as does bottle feeding) and I'm still trying to find the raw data to comment on! However, as I'm going to BF I'm also not going to call a McDonalds a "treat" - it's not a treat and I'm glad I didn't go there as a child! Ice-cream and chocolate with raspberries is a lot more of a treat than a McDonalds! Mmm, ice-cream and chocolate and raspberries: think I'm stopping off at the shops on the way home!

[*Efjay*]

Mac Donalds was never a treat in our house growing up either. It was very occasional that we had it. I think Macca's is crap now anyway so only ever take my kids there if they are harping on about wanting an ice cream as I would rather pay 50 cents for one then $2.20 at wendy's.
I am so glad my kids think fruit is fantastic, thats a treat in their minds & they get to eat it when ever they please! Mind you Chocolate is something I buy for me & share with them LOL.
Whoa! way off topic...

[Melbo]

Yeah we never had McDonalds either. I think I was 18 before I tasted it.

Ryn I agree that food consumed during childhood is also important. After all, you are eating solids far longer than you are breastfed. You don't have to look too far today to see examples of children who are fed unhealthy diets. Many adults don't understand basic nutrition either.

[sherrie]

I think this article is great and I think the fact that its in your face is also great!

So many people are truly ignorant about how artificial this really is and its even worse now with the follow on formula rubbish. Mothers are actually supplementing this thinking it will do them good and give them a boost.

But my opinion on this doesn't just stop at formula, I think this goes with pretty much all proccessed foods. Do we really need to base our infants diet primarily around overly processed rubbish full of artificial 'goodness' ?

My daughter is almost 14months and still her primary source of nutrition is breast. She is not a big solid eater, she won't sit there and eat a biscuit like some 8 month olds or even younger do. Sometimes I let this get to me then I think about it and realise heck my daughter probably knows more about nutrition then I do!

My Son who I had over a decade ago now was breast fed for the first few months then formula fed to help him sleep at night (he woke 2 hourly) he had rice cereal in his bottle, prune jiuce for his constipation, was on solid by 4 months, arrowroot biscuits, teething rusks not long after, eating weetbix and vegemite sandwiches I think before he was even close to a year (very vague). Where is the nutrition in that? *boggle*

The poor kid all he needed was more fluids not prune jiuce. Its just lucky he atleast had a decent start by the small period of breastfeeding. Did I stop because I was having difficulties etc??? NOOO, I stopped because it was inconvienient, I was young, naive and ignorant. I wasn't a bad mother, infact I think I did really well with him but as far as nutrition went I was truly ignorant and heck I dare say so are most people!

These things like formula, rice cereal in bottle, prune jiuce, arrowroot etc they were all under the guidance of the MCHN

I just thank the stars for the internet because without that I would be doing the same thing again with Maya! :eek:

[beckles]

thanks for posting this article kelly. although i already knew breastfeeding is the optimal food for babys it is interesting to read more scientific facts. i boycotted nestles in the 80's when that baby in the bottle article was first published.

can i also add that no-one can make anyone feel anything. when something is said the other person may feel say guilt but that does not mean that the person saying it made that person feel guilty, they felt it no-one 'made' them.

as those who know me know i breastfeed my children right into toddler/preschool age. i am very much pro breastfeeding, it is the sole reason we have breasts to suckle our young just as all other mammals do. it is natural and normal. as the article suggests it is only a recent thing to artifically feed our babys. "the last 60 years". so before that it was normal and natural to breastfeed. woman 'could' breastfeed. so why is it that only 60 years later alot of woman say they 'can't' breastfeed. i think that it is not that woman 'can't' breastfeed but as others have said it is education and CONFIDENCE in our bodies. why have we lost confidence in our bodies? i think it is because of the multi national companys encouraging this lack of confidence so they can make money. there is no money made from breastfeeding. it costs nothing. so it is in the artificial milk companies best interest for woman to feel they 'can't' breastfeed. i believe that alot of the problem is in our out of date biased (formula fed) weight charts encouraging mothers to believe that unless their babys are putting on 200-500grams a week they will fade away to nothing. some breastfed babys thrive on much less than that and alot become quite lean by the time they are 1 year old and this is normal. only in today's society, when alot of parents artificially feed their babys the babies are quite heavy so make the lean bf babys look 'skinny'. then they tell us society has a problem with obesity in childhood. der.

we have not lost confidence in our ability to feed our baby's for their 9 months in utero, so we need to gain confidence, that we had as a society earlier on, that we can feed our baby's after we have birthed them.

love beckles

[Eugenia]

I have to say that there really isn't enough education and support out there in regards to breastfeeding.

It never occurred to me that I wouldn't BF and when I ran into trouble at the beginning I asked the nurses at the hospital for help but most were too busy to bother. Even the lactation consultant at the hospital only gave me a little bit of good advice in the middle of a lot of bad advice, thanks to her Sophia was almost weaned at 5 weeks old. Thankfully I'm a very stubborn person and with the help of another lactation consultant managed to get it all working.

The point is I shouldn't have had so many problems if I'd been given help and advice when I first asked for it. I'm sure many others in my situation give up trying and I don't blame them for it. If I hadn't had DH's support and my own contrariness (to go against all the pressure I kept getting to FF) I wouldn't be sitting here typing one handed as I give Sophia her fourth breakfast.

Love,

[*Efjay*]

That is so true. I am finding my self time & time again talking about the things no one tells you about being pg & having babies. There really needs to be more education & support to ensure bfing gets off to a good start.

[Melbo]

Beckles, I agree that nobody can make another person feel guilt but far too much literature directed at parents is designed to do just that, whether it is breastfeeding, disposable nappies or whatever. My personal opinion is that it is more productive for people who have a point to make if they leave out highly emotive language. In an article based on scientific research, facts will speak for themselves.

[BellyBelly]

I have actually posted it on the main site and have edited out quite a bit of the emotive language, so I do hope more will see it for the stats and facts that it does offer.

[Tracey]

I fed Maddison for exactly 1 week, my nipples bledm she vomited blood never slept & my breasts never were full.. At the time I was sleep deprived, a single Mum living with my parents , my Mum had never fed us kids, although my Grandma had 11 live babies & all were breastfed. I have no idea & never actually asked my Mum why she never fed...?
But she did encourage me with maddy & helped as much as she could, each time I showed anyone they said she was feeding fine yet I was in extreme pain, crying & scared of my baby waking as I knew she'd want to feed! I was doing the thumper dance preparing myself for each feed... Til midnight a week after her birth, I had been letting her suckle but my breasts were empty dried up bleeding figs stuck to my chest...
I drove to a 24hr Coles grabbed a tin of formula & a bottle, burst into tears & the checkout lady hugged me!!! She told me it was Ok & it would all be OK... I drove home made a bottle of which Maddy drained & slept til the following day... She never woke again ever during the night & was sleeping 12-13hrs a night!!! I got sleep & managed to Mother my baby & look after her & function...
I was adamant I'd try again with my next baby... I posted on here numerous times requesting any info to help prepare myself, my boobs etc, etc for breastfeeding...

Where Maddison's birth was 'waters breaking on Tuesday, but no contractions, to being induced at 4am Thursday morning due to meconium in the waters, Maddy being birthed at 12:01pm Thursday, me having peth... Me being groggy & Maddy just nuzzling not really sucking!'

To Indah birth... Labour all day at home & really feel happy & in control & looking forward to birthing & meeting bubs... To arriving at hospital Monday 10:45pm with painful contractions 3mins apart (were 3 mins apart the whole day just getting stronger!) To walking around & refusing pain relief, a suck on gas which just made my jaw hurt, to walking & breathing through the contractions to hopping up on bed to have a look waters rupturing, baby distressing, being cut & Indah being handed to myself, nurses suctioning her & her looking around at us...
Midwife lifted my top & put Indah to my breast & she sucked & sucked & she kbnew exactly what to do... Maybe it was that I had no drugs & I felt empowered & in control? maybe it wasthe info from here & the determination to feed? I dont know....

But here I am after returning to work just before Indah was 5 months old & still feeding her... She has had Formula on odd occasions where I couldnt possibly get home & there was no EBM in the freezer, she is now drinking cows milk too..

I have no guilt from not feeding Maddy, I made the choice I made to go get Formula at the time without having the resources to assist me or advise me otherwise, she is a very healthy, lean , bright & happy 7+yr old & We have a strong bond & I simply dont harbour guilt for something so trivial (infact I blame others whenever I can!!! hee hee)
I do feel proud & self satisfied that Indah & I have been a great breastfeeding team, I havent exclusively Breast fed her but at 9+mths it has been her main diet & I have provided that for her, if I didnt need to rewturn to work then I know I would still be feeding... Especially when initially I started out saying "I hope I can feed this baby just to know what it's like, then I want to feed her doe 6 wks, then 3 months, once I am back at work I will slowly wean her, then 6 months... It's now past 9 months & I will continue to breastfeed her Mornings & nights & anytimes I am with her inbetween, including weekends..."
I am amazed still at what a Woman's body can achieve... with the right help...

This site has helped me in brthing knowledge & breastfeeding knowledge & I will forever be grateful to everyone on this site for the interaction & varying views on everything...

Thanks Kelly!

[*Efjay*]

I thinks its fantastic when someone has such a truamatic BFing experience first time round, then goes on to feed trouble free with the next. Its great that you & Indah where able to get over the hurdles of your first Bfing experience. many 2nd time mums who had bad BFing exp & FF the first can be reluctant to try BFing with the second. Good On you!

[BellyBelly]

At the homebirth conference, Robyn Thompson gave a fantastic talk and presentation, with some very disturbing images of women's nipples. Women are not supported to breastfeed properly and many expect that the hospital will teach them everything they need to know (or will know they right way to teach mum) or show them how to do it and feel a great deal of anxiety when they don't get that support. I thought my nipples were bad with my first bub, but this was revolting what we saw, nipples that were majorly hacked away in chunks and bleeding.

Women need to seek support when they get home and anytime if breastfeeding is hurting - it should not hurt and if it does, there is an attachment problem - women should seek that support before it gets worse and / or they think they cannot breastfeed. Babies should be feeding where the breast falls naturally and lined up across your body which is not hunched over, twisted, etc (which a consultant can help you with if you aren't sure), all this lining up with the thumb here or nose here etc is far too confusing. Instead of concentrating on her baby, she is concentrating on if she has the right thumb distance or nose lined up etc. Then she gets anxious, milk supply is a problem.

I just urge you all to seek out support of the ABA or a lactation consultant if you are having issues. Breastfeeding is something that should not hurt and is enjoyable - even with one of the more disturbing cases we saw images of, Robyn was able to help the mum and she was immediately able to feed without pain! Despite having terribly damaged nipples. Of course, some women are so affected by the experience that they make the decision to bottlefeed - Robyn often says that its emotive even for her - they sometimes sit and cry together. But no matter what choice, it needs to be made with love and respect, and hopefully with some good knowledge and education, we can stop breastfeeding being such a terrible experience and getting to the point where a mum no longer enjoys breastfeeding, or is in so much pain that she can't go on. Please seek help!

In regards to this article, it is not attacking those who choose to bottledfeed for this reason, it is attacking society and government and manufacturers for leading us to believe it is a better alternative or an equal alternative so that women decide to bottlefeed thinking its the best for their baby, better than breastmilk. As it also stated, formula was made so that orphans would not go hungry and die, it was a 'back-up' plan for those who couldnt have breastmilk.

[Tracey]

Thanks,... every time I feed her I get a rush of satisfaction... It hasnt helped me lose weight though! hee hee ...But I must say it has become a part of being a mummy, that I am loving & experiencing for the first time & extremely grateful that I am getting the chance to do it! Indah loves it too!!

Kel,
I was in hospital for 4 full days after addy's birth & each time I fed I pressed the buzzer & asked for help, I watched the video & was always told (it WILL hurt initially until you get past 6wks).. They all told me it was fine & even checked my nipples after Maddy had fed.. Then the MCHN popped in on my 2nd day home & said all was fine... I explained there was bleeding etc & she said you have a small graze, it will heal, but attachment is fine & it generally takes 6 wks for nipples to toughen up...
The pain I was in by the next day was out of this world, I'd have rather birthed 5 babies in a row than feed once a day... I know NOW that I havent had a days pain or anything with Indah (other than biting!)... But I know now that breastfeeding is enjoyable for both of us & with the RIGHT Help it can work!

But before I didnt have the help & what i was getting wasnt helping me at all...

[Liz]

Yay Tracey Well done!

I sometimes wonder what my whole birth/bf/parenting experience would be like if I hadn't been on this forum. Could well have been the complete opposite.. I would probably have succumbed to painrelief, and actually been afraid of labour, my mum only fed us for about 3 months, but did scheduled feeding and timed for 10mins a feed, so her input with feeding would have hampered my efforts.. I wouldn't have been in contact with the ABA, so wouldn't have kknown much about bf at all! And parenting.. well.. it's only been 4 months so far.. but I probably would have followed my mum's lead, and done controlled crying etc etc.

I'm very grateful to everyone here too Now my problem is not pushing what I've learned on my friends! LOL. A friend of mine is TTC.. I will be recommending this site for her so she can learn it on her own. I know for a fact that her DH's cousin (very close to them.. and us) will be putting pressure on her to 'teach' the baby to sleep, and she's the one who had no success with bf her first, so didn't even attempt the 2nd. I'll be endeavouring to help my friend wherever I can when the time comes!

[Liz]

oo.. just had an idea.. Kelly.. BellyBelly should sell gift bundles of Pinky's books! LOL. I'd buy one for myself AND my friend

[BellyBelly]

Aaaaaw you guys! That's wonderful. *sniff sniff*

[Tracey]

Yep, It's helped me no end, coz most of my friends either have NFI, dont have kids & think they know everything or have had kids because they were married & heading into their mid late 30's & figured it wsa now or never but arent really parenting godesses like we all are here on BB!!!

Hugs to you Kel for bringing us all together & giving u the power to be informed & make choices!!!

ETA... Also learning to ignore comments from our own Mothers & families Re: Your making a rod for your own back, your spoiling them etc, etc!!!!