Please tell me it gets easier!

[Twin Sister]

I have the LC coming back tomorrow, so i am going to try to stick it out until then. If we still don't get me sorted I will try pumping again. I just borrowed a better pump so hopefully it will go better. I didn't find pumping painful last time so we'll see what happens. I have tried just hand expressing but I can only get some out when I'm having a let down, after that it's impossible, so a pump would work much better for me at this point.

Oddly enough I find feeding less painful when my breasts are engorged. I guess because Cameron doens't have to suck as hard to get the milk it just kind flows out and he just has to swlallow it. Then as my breasts get softer the pain gets worse and the breast starts slipping out of his mouth more. After a really bad feed my nipples sting for hours afterwards.

[CatherineL]

Ooohhh... maybe you have thrush?? My nipples - areolas stung in between feeds when our thrush flared up! Also, my nipples wouldn't heal from when they were damaged from the first week because of the thrush... they have only just healed now even though our attachment has been grear for weeks.

[Twin Sister]

I am not prone to yeast infections (have never had one) so the doctor didn't seem to think I had thrush last time I asked him, but I will ask again on Tuesday when i go in. My nipples are just getting worse with each feed. It looks like he has a ton of breast in his mouth as most of the areola is taken in, but it still hurts.

[CatherineL]

I'm not prone to yeast infections either... I was also told that thrush was itchy, yet my nipples didn't itch just stung. Maybe check on the inside of Camerons mouth for white scale? Thrush can make feeding painful even when attachement is right as far as I have experienced. I did two applications of nilstat and suddenly I had no more pain during feeds or stinging afterwards or between. Thrush was really painful for me and I was almost ready to give up a number of times because I just felt like we couldn't get rid of it and it was so painful! Plus the LC seemed to think Ro fussing at the breast and continually slipping off was because she had an irritated tongue. I'm sure Barb will correct me if i've said anything wrong...

[Twin Sister]

Hmmm my nipples are both sore and itchy. I thought I had a Dr appt today but it is tomorrow, and I missed the LC call yesterday so i will have to struggle thgouh another day.

The pain you had from the thrush, what kind of pain was it like? Mine is kind of a burning pain. It feels like he has a sandpaper tounge and is licking my nipple raw.

[Hoody]

Thrush IMO was the worst pain ever. My nipple hurt if my clothes rubbed on them i couldnt dry myself properly after a shower- any sort of touch and i was almost in tears. Mine started a little itchy but where so badly damaged i thought they were healing and then they stung like crazy- felt like they were on fire. I had never had any sort of yeast infection b4 i had thrush in my nipples so it was my 1st. Ask your Dr to take a swab to check JIC even if he doesnt think it is at least then you can rule it out iykwim. Good luck and well done for persevering this long

[AnyDream]

TwinSis, if you think it might be thrush make sure you air your BBs out and do not wear plastic-backed or disposable breastpads!!! I started having thrush-like symptoms and they stopped once I switched from disposables to plain fabric ones, it makes all the difference.

[CatherineL]

Wow - that really does sound like thrush to me! It felt like stinging and burning... and like hoody said couldn't even dry myself after a shower any thing that rubbed against my nipples killed, even wearing a bra hurt almost had me in tears many a time. Another thing I found, my nipples always felt moist, even if I hadn't been leaking - now that its just about gone - nipples have gone back to normal. Seriously, I would just pop down the pharmacy and pick up some nilstat and apply to your nipples until you can see the Dr. and then once he actually says that you and your son have it, start treating him too - because you both will need to treat it. I swear to god after just acouple of applications through the day - I had hardly any pain whatsoever. Like you said, sand paper describes it perfectly! A lot recommend the daktarin gel, seriously I hate it - it's granula and killed to put on my nipples, but I found it easier to give Ro the gel because it would stay in her mouth. kwim? Hope you find some relief soon. And try air bewbies out as much as you can, thrush like warm, darm, moist places - change breast bads often, never leave wet ones in. Thrush love them.

ETA - Another thing I noticed when I had thrush that doesn't happen now, is back then I had to peal my breast pads off and I don't know... I think it's because my nipples were moist? But whatever the reason, it hurt and that used to reduce me to tears.

Also is it the areola that's painful too? I think that's a tell tale... The LC said to me that, that shouldn't be hurting from poor attachment when I very first saw her.

[Twin Sister]

Thanks so much for all your continued support. I keep wanting to chuck in the towel but you are all keeping me on track.

I have been airing out my Nipples as much as possible the last 24 hours and have noticed a difference (they are still sore but hey look uch less red). I have to carry a cup around with me though as I get let-down at random times and start spraying milk everywhere. I've already collected like 30 mls of let down spray today. They are looking and feeling a little better too though still very red and sore and they definately can't handle towel drying......and hey I had to peel off my breast pads today too! I switched to cotton pads a few days ago as I found they were a lot softer and my nipples were less aggrevated by them. I also rotate wearing the pads and the ventilated sheilds.

I thought my Dr's appt was today but it is actually tomorrow. Cameron's mouth and diaper area both look fine though so not sure if the Dr will think thrush is a possibility. Hopefully if I ask him to check me for it anyways he will. The LC is convinved it's positioning since i am able to have pain-free feeds with her help, but it's worth asking about tomorrow anywyas.

My other issue is his spitting up. He spits up a lot unless I break him off frequently to burp him. When I get a half decent latch with him though I don't want to break him off and have to put him on again so I leave him on.....and then he brings it all up. Arrrgh!

[AnyDream]

TwinSis, the stabbing pain is more an indicator of thrush than whether your baby also has thrush or not. Sometimes it's not visible at all. My Dr didn't even look, she just went with my description of symptoms.

Glad you have noticed a difference, I do hope it continues to improve for you and rapidly too. You're doing a great job!

[CatherineL]

Gawsh - that does bring back so many memories of getting a good attachment and then not wanting to break it because of the pain! That's another thing, thrush does cause your nipples to look irritated, red or in my case they were pink which isn't normal for me. Seriously TS I was in denial when I first told I had it because I had never had thrush before (that I know of) and I couldn't see anything but curdled milk in my babies mouth and she definately didn't have a red bot (never did get a red bot) - I developed mastitis and put down the sensations I obviously had from thrush as the mastitis, but when the mastitis cleared up I still had the symptoms of thrush. It just got worse and worse - I even came on here crying because I gave my baby a bottle of formula I couldn't handle it anymore and felt so guilty. After we went and got some more help for the thrush - Rochelle seemed to developed a thick white scale on her tongue. Thrush was really hard to get rid of and it's pretty yucky to treat because the stuff to put on your nipples is bloody sticky and would make any anything that touched it sticky like candy. But it helped like you wouldn't believe - seriously, you should really just try it for yourself for even just a day (won't do you anyharm either way) and if it hasn't done anything, well then it's prolly not thrush. But the relief I had was just so quick that I couldn't believe I suffered with it for such a period of time when relief was only a few drops of nilstat away! Best of luck TS - I hope you do find some relief soon whatever the outcome, especially if it is thrush cause my god it's painful.

I agree with what Marydean said!

[Twin Sister]

Had the LC come by last night and had another good session and a pain free feed, but again as soon as she left I couldn't do it anymore *sob*. Last night's 3am feeding went so bad that now the areaola is starting to get red as well. The frustration!!! I tried to give him a bottle of EBM to give my nipples a break but he's not a huge fan of the bottle and he took only a few sucks before turning his nose up at it and looking for boob.

I went to the doctor today and he doesn't think it's thrush either but I may pick up some of that cream anyways to try it out as he didn't even look at my nipples, just went by the sound of things and the fact that things go smooth while the LC is there. The LC is on holidays for the next 2 weeks so I'm on my own until then and am willing to try anything to get me through.

We actually went for an x-ray today. The bump on his hea from teh suction during my birth isn't going away and feels really hard at the edges so they wanted to make sure his little skull was ok. He was really good for the x-ray and everyone commented on what a good baby he is. After the x-ray I put on his little Santa suit and tok him to the mall for a photo with Santa. He was a big hit.

[Hoody]

Sorry to hear your feed at last night was really bad i can fully sympathise with you as like i have said b4 i had so many issues feeding dd1 that by 4 wks i expressed fulltime, i only managed to do that though til 7wks as i was struggling with the demand of feeding, pumping, cleaning the equipment etc and i felt like it was cunsuming to much of our time and my nipples where still not great. I just want to say well done for sticking to it so far you are doing a fantastic job and just because the LC is away for 2 weeks it doesnt mean you are alone. You have all the lovely ladies (and men) from here supporting you. I know when i have been feeding dd2 these last few days i have had you in my thoughts praying that things get easier.
I hope Cameron's Xray went ok and that his santa photo went well. I'm sure he looked very cute.

[Twin Sister]

Aw thanks Hoody

Well I woke up this morning crying and absolutley miserable. Because I've been in so much pain my husband have been bickering at each other like crazy (I'm grumpy from the pain, he feels bad and tries to help but can't and we both get grumpier)I couldn't take another feed on such sore nipples so I decided to start pumping and bottle feeding him. I have a ton of milk so pumping is no problem and although Cameron hates the bottle, hunger prevailed and he eventually took it.

My nipples feel sooooo much better already and he's only had one bottle feed. I know it's a ton more work but since I'm not in pain I'm in much better spirits and am willing to take on the extra work. I'm hoping once my nipples have healed I can try again.

Is it hard to get them back on the breast after they get used to a bottle??

[Jennifer13]

Twin Sister, I hope you are feeling a lot better now and your poor nipples have had a break. Hope Xmas went well for you.

I only tried expressing and bottlefeeding my DD a couple of times when she was really little and had no problems with her on the bb afterwards. If the alternative is to stay in constant pain and end up feeling like giving it away all together, then I think you are probably doing yourself a favour and giving your bbs a break. One day at a time...

Soon enough you'll be looking back and remembering your experiences and giving advice to someone else who is going through a similar thing.

[AnyDream]

Hi Twin Sis, just wondering how you're going? Sorry can't answer about the bottle/nipple thing, just hope it gives your nipples a chance to recuperate and also a chance for you to feel less beseiged by pain! xxx

[Twin Sister]

Aw thanks guys

Ugh we're still struggling. I've been pumping from about noon until midnight, and then breastfeeding from midnight until noon as pumping doesn't seem to drain the breast the same way and I get sore if I'm just pumping.

At first pumping was really easy and I could get like 100ml in 15- 20 mintues, but thngs have slowed down considerably and it took me and hour and a half last night to get just 80 ml (though I did take a few breaks when he was crying to put him on).

So far he is doing well switching back and forth, he's a good eater so he seems to take whatever is offered right now. The bottle of formula we got "just in case" has been calling to me, though we haven't opened it just yet. I'm ok with supplementing a bit (like last night when I was in agony from feeding and just couldn't get enough pumped out) but my husband is dead set against it.

[paradise lost]

Is it an electric pump hun? Because of the bad associations with it i stopped getting let-down for the pump and ended up having to pump for 90 minutes to get 50-60mls, and then getting sore because there was a lot of milk still in there but i couldn't get it out.

Read this online article about hand-expressing - needs practice but kinder on nipples and gets more out than the pump. How are you going with the LC? Keep demanding help until you get it. You mentioned that things were easier when the LC was there, can you identify anything at all that is different when you're alone? What is she doing? Is she physically positioning bubs for you? Is she putting cushions in different places? If she's adjusting him on his way to the boob then get DH to watch and learn next time so he can assist you both. My major problem in the early weeks was that as she fed DD dripped a bit out which made the boob slippery and she'd slide off a tiny bit. THat tiny bit was enough to HURT like crazy and some feeds i was taking her off and drying her face and my boob 15-20 times in 40 minutes. It settled down as she grew but it was a nightmare at 3am.

You're doing SO well still going on with this, and as he grows i PROMISE things improve, but you definitely need to get help getting him attached well. The problem with unresolved bad attachment is that he has to relearn how to get on, but the breaks given by the pumped EBM bottles might assist as the bottle teat is totally different in their mouth so the boob might feel "new" again after 12 hours off.

It's great your husband is supportive of BFing, and ultimately sheer bloodymindedness will get you through this, but you are right to identify the difference between switching to FF entirely and just supplementing a little. Supplementing CAN lead to entirely FFing (it was certainly a factor for me) but many many women with teething troubles BFing have supplemented and gone on to fully BF their babies.

bx