Islam and MaccaDees?

[Phteven]

Yael, I'm not sure about the relative price. TBH I never pay much attention to the prices of food unless I'm shopping with coins and don't want to be embarrased at the checkout.
The chicken at my local supermarket is halal and about the same price as the ones next door without the sticker. I live across the road from a wholesale butcher so I get pretty good prices compared to my old butcher.

Astrid as far as I know the chicken brands that are halal certified include biaida (that includes the lilydale freerange), redlea, cordina, most of the inghams and lots of the steggles are but they won't guarantee it. The reason is because the slaughter process in their factories is the same for halal and non-halal. It requires a Muslim to oversee it and an inspection to make sure the premises are clean and humane. From an economic point of view it would be silly to exclude yourself from the market (both local and export) when it costs nothing extra to be able to access it.
FWIW if a Muslim were slaughtering in a non-halal abbatior and said Bismillah before each slaughter and cut their throat that meat would probably be halal too.
I think that they don't bother labelling it because the end product from a physical perspective is pretty much the same - it's not the same as having a food additive in it that could cause an allergic reaction or cancer or organic or GM which have ecological implications. They only label for physical ingredients not spiritual charcteristics. Halal labelling is entirely voluntary if an organisation wants to label not halal then that would be ok too.

Also when it comes to labelling there is a 5% loophole. There is unfortunately lots of stuff in our food that isn't labelled.

[christy]

Wow I find this fascinating. I often worry about the slaughter process, the humane treatment of animals. I have issues with slaughter houses... it maybe to do with prac work I've done in my vet nursing studies... and what I believe in working with animals. Chloe the way you've put it has helped, the ideal that animals have the right for a humane death. That is important to me. I think I'll look further into this now. I buy from our butcher because there are no hormones or additives in his meat & he prepares all his meat separately. He doesn't mix lamb with pork etc etc. He stores them all separately and even puts them into separate cases. I like the way all the chickens are free range and fed organic feed. I try to buy responsibly.

[River]

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[Heaven]

After reading the bible I would like to eat Kosher meat. I assume it's just like it says in the bible. For normal meat if an animal has something wrong with it they might just cut out that bit, e.g. cut out a cancerous bit, but we eat the rest. Whereas, the whole animal would not be considered Kosher, and I think that's a better way personally.
Problem is I'm totally clueless about where I would find it in Brisbane! I assume it's hard to get? Anyone know of anywhere?

[Indadhanu]

SaraJane, you can google it or look it up on yellowpages.com.au and you should find some butchers/supermarkets or wholesalers that could direct you to stores in your area

[Phteven]

Maybe contact a local synagogue and ask them
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzrawill/sunny...es/scc_syn.htm

[Astrid]

Chloe - you might find it interesting that the abattoir that you referred to near me has been under investigation by the RSPCA etc for its method of slaughter being inhumane. I have only manged to find articles regarding the concerns but not of any investigation outcome. I also understand about the 5% rule, having a child with sensitivities for additives has made acutely aware how important good labeling is.

I have been speaking more to DH about this and he strongly disagrees with the method of slaughter with halal meat. He has a strong background in farming, hunting etc along with being from a professional cookery background, specialising in steak. His brother and many old school mates used to work at the local abattoir, so he is more knowledgeable than me in this area, he has killed and then prepared the animal, whereas I have not. He firmly believes the bolt method is more humane, plus from a taste point the meat is better. When I explained to him that there is unlabeled halal meat on the market, his comment was "well that explains the flavourless meat we have been getting more lately". So for him there is an actual change in the characteristic of the product, just like grain fed affects the meat, so does the slaughter method.

[elixa]

He firmly believes the bolt method is more humane, plus from a taste point the meat is better. When I explained to him that there is unlabeled halal meat on the market, his comment was "well that explains the flavourless meat we have been getting more lately".

Just an interesting point, we go to this upper market lebanese restaurant owned by Christians as the food is lovely. We were speaking to them as we always were buying vegetarian kebabs from them, thinking the meat is not halal, and the owner came up to us and said, "hey guys, u know all our meat is halal certified, just the shop isnt." So we asked, is this because u get alot of Muslim customers, that u provide halal meat" and he said, no, the real reason is the halal meat simply tastes much better and is more tender, and he kept mentioning the smell, the smell is so much cleaner of halal due to the way the blood is drained. We were really spun out. He was only speaking from a owner/chef perspective on this in his own experience.

I too am convert to Islam so have eaten non halal meat majority of my life till i converted. I know myself the difference. I have eaten Kosher meat at a Jewish synagogue as well as part of a interfaith program and it was very tasty as well, and most of the Jewish people that came to visit our mosque ate the halal meal we provided with exception of one or two who stuck with the vegetarian meals we provided as they were more strict.

My mum is a strict catholic (and pretty much against any other religon) but interestingly she admits the mince at the halal butcher is the most tastiest she has ever tried and buys it now from there rather than supermarkets like coles etc. One Christian priest also said that there is nothing in the Christian faith that is against eating Halal (or kosher) meat, that its perfectly fine to consume as its slaughtered in the name of God so i guess that is one of the reasons she feels totally fine to consume halal meat. but of course if she didnt want to, i would not object to that either.

[Astrid]

Just popping into say that I have not changed my mind, I have continued to look into this and have found that whilst on this board I am alone, that I am not alone in real life. I am comfortable with my decision and do not wish for others to continue to try to change my mind or tell myself or my husband that our taste bubs are wrong, or base arguments on Christianity when I am not part of any monotheistic religion. I am now unsubscribing from this thread so that others may chat about halal in peace, my main point of being in this thread was about choice, not whether that choice was right, wrong, silly or sensible. I have choice and so does everyone else, it is a pity my choice does not seem to respected as much as other people's choices are. Outwardly I will always show respect for others choices, but in my heart a lot of that respect has died, thanks.

[elixa]

Just popping into say that I have not changed my mind, I have continued to look into this and have found that whilst on this board I am alone, that I am not alone in real life. I am comfortable with my decision and do not wish for others to continue to try to change my mind or tell myself or my husband that our taste bubs are wrong, or base arguments on Christianity when I am not part of any monotheistic religion. I am now unsubscribing from this thread so that others may chat about halal in peace, my main point of being in this thread was about choice, not whether that choice was right, wrong, silly or sensible. I have choice and so does everyone else, it is a pity my choice does not seem to respected as much as other people's choices are. Outwardly I will always show respect for others choices, but in my heart a lot of that respect has died, thanks.

Well if your referring to my comment, my comment was only on my experience and not anything to convince u or deter you...or change our mind. For this is not my problem or concern. I was sharing with everyone how my own mother who is a strict Catholic was ok to eat halal meat. THis is purely her own personal experience and i wanted to share with others the different view points out there, just as you shared and contributed your own. I wanted to share my view point and experience and that of my Christian family whom i love and respect.

Seriously, nobody really cares at end of day whether you like, love or hate halal meat, or any particular food, as we all have our own life, worries, likes and dislikes, but its just nice in this particular topic to all share our experiences, thoughts and feelings. Your taste buds are your own, and i think that majority of people on this board, if not all, respect that you wish to know whether meat you purchase is halal so you can buy an altnative. That is totally fine, just like i refuse to eat Pork! Lol believe me, people out there have tried to convince me i am missing out but i just laugh it off and if they care to know the reasons, i tell them why and we have a brief dialogue and that's it. Since your leaving this forum, just want to know, honestly, please dont go out there saying Muslims dont respect your choice, as that is wrong, you eat what you want, no Muslim will care, as would most non Muslims. The only thing is people will discuss their own thoughts and feelings such as the question raised in this forum, just as you have. Losing respect may go both ways...

[Heaven]

Thanks guys, I'll have to do a bit of investigating!!

[Yael]

I have a feeling my friends in Brissy used to import their kosher meat, but I have a friend coming for a massage tomorrow night would used to live there, so i'll ask her for you.

[Heaven]

ugh, that's annoying!!
Thanks a lot Yael, that would be great!!

[Yael]

Here is a post i wrote about why it is more human than the bolt method:

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...27&postcount=8

Using the bolt method, the animal has to be shot, sometimes UP TO 6 TIMES, before it dies. I believe that would cause tremendous pain to an animal.

[Phteven]

Astrid, I've been aware of that investigation for some time now (Petition: Victorian Abattoir Not Stunning Animals Before Slaughter). It is in fact the Victorian Farmer's Federation and the federal government who are investigating and the investigation centers more around the exemption that the abbatoir has to kill without stunning first. The RSPCA got in on the act a bit later. I'm not sure if they have ever bothered 'investigating' or just put out a press release on a topical subject.

As for the bolt meat tasting nicer I guess that we'll have to disagree on that one. We used to own a farm and slaughter our own meat (not to be halal just because when you grow your own lambs it's stupid to buy the stuff) anyways my Dad got sick of it and sent some to the abbatoir to be killed for us and they tasted awful compared to properly bled meat.
We'll also have to disagree on the humaneness of respective killing methods. I've seen animals have their throat cut and death is literally instantaneous whereas bolt killing can need to be repeated several times or more
When I became a Muslim and started eating halal one of the things I noticed was that the meat tasted more like the flavoursome, tender meat I had grown up on than the supermarket stuff I had become accustomed to since leaving home.

BTW SaraJane, I noticed that you mentioned that in conventional abbotoirs that cancers etc are just cut out but a kosher animal must be healthy. I thought this was really interesting because that is another point of similarity between kosher and halal.
When I was growing up we used to sell animals with tumours direct to the abattoir instead of through the sale-yards but I always thought they became pet food - maybe they were turned into pies ewww. I'm sure (read I really hope) that there are health standards for animals kiled for human consumption in Australia.

As well as eating kosher meat Muslims can also eat meat that is killed in the correct manner by a Christian who says a blessing beforehand.

[Heaven]

Oh really? It's interesting how they are so similar on many things!!
I hope that they wouldn't use diseased animals for humans at all but I had a feeling that i read somewhere they did like if they had a tumour in their leg they'd just discard that bit?? I hope I'm wrong tho!