Telling someone they're not welcome ... WWYD?

[Butterfly Dawn]

Wow. Betty sounds like a real piece of work. I can't say i'd be having much to do with her either!
however, I don't think the other girls are much better with their silly games.
Think i'd be saying to them they should fess up, tell her that her views offend them and unless she can keep a civil tongue they don't want to catch the train with her.
Using u as a scapegoat isn't cool either. I'd be stopping that in its tracks before it gets snowballing.

Awkward situation that could get unpleasant if handled wrong though

[*Efjay*]

So first thing I think when reading this is " Where are you catching the train? is it too work? is just going out?.."
next was wow these people are horrible! Poor Betty!
Then I was like reading the sort of person Betty is. No wonder they are avoiding her!

But then I went back to thinking these other girls are not very nice at all, Im also still stuck on where you are catching the train too.
Then the scapegoat thing.. No no no, don't let them do it. Betty sounds like she could get pretty nasty & if you work with her then it will come back & bite you.

Talk to your friends, tell them the way they are behaving is extremely pathetic & while you enjoy their company its really getting out of hand. Maybe talk to them as a group & then suggest someone other then Penny to talk to Betty.
Why Betty hasn't cottoned on is beyond me, the other girls have ditched her time & time again, one would think she would realise by now! Someone needs to tell her.

[~clover~]

The way I see it, you get to an age (especially once having kids), where you turn into a mature adult. You put up & shut up, or you say something & walk away. I've known twits. Plenty of them. But I usually listen to the crap, roll my eyes to myself, maybe let them know my thoughts on whatever it is they wanna winge about & get over it til next time.

If she has a racist comment, you could always tell a little white lie that might make her rethink the things she says to anyone & everyone. I do this when it comes to extended breastfeeding Its not a lie though Just makes them rethink their big mouth.

She will not learn how to get along with the general public if noone tells her she's saying the wrong things. Let her know it offends you & she may or may not learn from it. If she doesn't, maybe just be polite but stand offish IYGWIM. Don't engage in conversation other than short answers that might make her see you're not too interested.

Anything is better than the immature high school crap these girls are carrying on with. Just because you're 'putting up with her' on the train doesn't mean she needs to be in your lives. Its only to & from work is it not?

Maybe ask those girls how they'd feel if something happened to her due to depression after being treated that way by them? The way they're acting may have a bigger impact than they think...

[peanutter]

Thanks for the responses, girls.

To clarify, the behaviour as it is now on behalf of the girls is what it's escalated to - not what they initially started doing.

Initially, and for quite some time, we would interject (eg: she'd make a racist comment, or abuse someone for "staring" at her, and we'd putt her up, or point out that the person appeared to be staring into space, or looking through the window, not her in the reflection, etc). We'd try to get her to settle down or whatever.

I guess not engaging her in conversation is tricky, because (answering another question!) the train ride is to work every day, and it's a 60 minute ride.

There's no way of ignoring her which isn't in my opinion just as bad and juvenile as hiding from her.

The ducking and weaving bit should also be explained a bit more - the girl knows what one of the other girls' cars is (I think because I *think* they used to catch the train from the same station) and if she sees the other girls' car there, she'll sometimes call her and demand to know what train she is/was/will be on.

I've tried calling out Betty's behaviour. It's atrocious, but she either ignores it, or just thinks my POV is stupid/wrong, and it just makes her not like me. The others have also called out her behaviour, and she is all chastised for the rest of that train trip, and then the next day, it's like it never happened.

I've tried calling out the other girls' behaviour. I've said categorically that I think they should just TELL her they don't want to catch the train together, and that they shouldn't lie. Lying IMHO is never justified, and in this instance, it's completely defunct because it means Betty still doesn't know (as she doesn't seem to take hints) that they don't like her.

All the hints have fallen on deaf ears, as have the gentle suggestions that maybe it would be better for her to catch the train later and get some more sleep, or earlier and get a head start on work. In my opinion, she's not going to get it without something more direct. And direct isn't going to work from me because if she thinks it's just me who doesn't want to catch the train together, and that I can just suck it up. I'm not sure whether she just has no radar for social cues, or whether she is passive aggressive and is deliberately ignoring them. No idea.

Also, to clarify my concerns about scape goating, the girls haven't (as far as I'm aware!) actually blamed anything on me, but in the most recent set of texts, Penny said that she was catching the train with me (which was the truth) to see if that would be enough of a disincentive for her to catch the train with them. What I don't want though is for Betty to get the wrong end of the stick, and to twist it around in her own mind that she "can't" catch the train with them because I'm there, or for her to think I'm somehow trying to stop her but the others like her ... part of me doesn't care because I *don't* like her, and I *do* want her to not catch the train with us. But part of me doesn't want to be the bad guy when the truth is that none of them want her to catch this train ...

In an ideal world, she'd make some new friends who catch a different train or at least a different carriage, and she'd have a rollicking good time too!


Keike - yes, it's pretty immature, and that's part of my issue. And yes, it's getting to a point of wanting to catch another train myself to avoid the drama. I'm not sure I need this kind of stuff on my way to work! But this connection just seems to bring out the worst in them. It's not like they act this way about other things at least not to this degree! ... just this one ...

clover - yeah, I initially tried to consider it like a teaching time, educating her a little here and there (through my responses to thing she says) about positive things to say and do, and confronting some of her prejudices, etc, and I also was concerned about the impact if she thought she wasn't liked etc, but it got so bad, and some things were so severe that while I forgive her, I'm not prepared to have her in my life any more. Despite my efforts, there was no apparent benefit being received by her, and it's not my obligation to keep her entertained on the ride to work. And while I don't want to hurt her feelings, I have decided that I am not responsible for her reaction(s) to a natural consequence to her behaviour (losing a friendship). I know you're not saying that I am responsible, I'm just letting you know my thought process on those points

Rouge - I really don't find Betty to be the victim at all. I don't want this to turn into a thread catting about all her crimes, but suffice it to say, they are vast and varied. That doesn't make the girls' behaviour now justified at all - I think they're just out of strategies, which is why I'd like to present another one. My next strategy would be a bandaid ripping expedition - just TELLING her we don't get on, and don't want to catch the train together any more. Short, simple, direct, and not really leaving room for interpretation. The other girls don't want to do this because they don't like confrontation, and don't want to be "mean". My view (and I have expressed it) is that what they are DOING is mean, and is also confusing and interpretable for Betty, and will just prolong it.

Thus my need for other suggestions as to how to tell Betty


I guess my view is that I understand Penny and the others want to think of a "nice" way of telling Becky to **** off, and there is no such thing. But IMHO the *kindest* way of doing things is just to tell her, perhaps in a text, that we do not want to catch the train together. Black and white. Not, "we'd rather not ..." or "we would prefer it if ..." or "we don't think that ..." or anything subject to interpretation.

And here's the rub - I can't do it on their behalf.

They need to do it, and they don't want to, because they think that would be mean, and they'd rather avoid the issue for the time being.


Any tips on how I can word it to the other girls, to help them to take that step of doing it?


They would be much appreciated ...

[Sagres]

tell her that her views offend them and unless she can keep a civil tongue they don't want to catch the train with her.

I think this is the best wording I can think of, that her views offend the rest of the group and you choose not to play a part in those offensive sentiments so you no longer want to catch the train with her.

As for the friends I think I would try and call them out on their behavior, tell them the gigs up and it's time to sort it out or else (though not sure what the else would be!). Express to them that by trying to be kind they are actually being very mean and it's time for that crap to stop.