Why is ok to say, skinny and not fat?

[Cassius2]

I have been constantly taunted about being fat since I was in Primary school. I weighed exactly the same as my best friend in Yr 7, only she was 15 cm taller, and our teacher said I was lying and would weigh at least 10 kilo's more than my friend. I was pushed harder during PE than any of the other kids because I was bigger than them. But looking back, looking at my growth charts and comparing them, I was not at an unhealthy weight

that is shocking! it totally sucks when they pick on a kid like that. it's bad enough dealing with it as an adult, but man, as a kid and with a teacher in that kind of power relationship???!! sickening

[allycat06]

also would get at the shops when trying on clothes the whole 'skinny minny' thing and even on a NUMBER of occassions the 'anorexic' label...as a POSITIVE thing from a sales assistant i was sooo embarrassed and mortified each time. the amount of times that i had to hold back tears as i would try on clothes that never fit and have those comments...to this day i NEVER come out of the changeroom to see how the clothes look in a big mirror...not even for my wedding dress lol!

It's awful isn't it! My sister is 17 and I've heard her and her friends use anorexia as a term of endearment. As in 'oh you look so 'ano' in that dress HOT!' Since when did a serious and debilitating mental illness become a compliment?

A friend of mine (C) over the years has shed quite a bit of weight and she looks really really good. Another friend of ours loves to push her buttons by calling her 'bulemic'. Personally I think she is just jealous that C has been diciplined enough to lose the weight by excerising and eating healthy food and therefore has to resort to name calling to make herself feel better. Silly cow!

[Nelle]

I agree that you can't tell too much about someone's lifestyle from their appearance. Apart from some obvious superficial things, like that a really large person probably isn't an elite gymnast and a really slender person probably hasn't spent the last summer at sumo camp.

For example, it's not helpful to look at a thinnish person and assume they're healthy. You can get thin people who barely do any exercise, don't eat very well or often, are quite unfit and those around them insist there's no issue. And then there are wonderfully fit and energetic people who are heavier than they need to be.

I guess the fat and skinny thing is just a cultural values thing, as well as a language thing - call someone slender and it doesn't seem so bad. I think it's wise to think before pretty much every comment, I know of short and tall people who get inane or thoughtless comments too.

[Inanna]

Allycat I've heard my teenage daughter speak similarly - it's very scary...

BMI is what we have - average weights for height is what we have to help us discover a reasonably healthy range. I think we do have to acknowledge that obesity is a critical health issue in our country. It's not a fallacy - it's real & it causes much distress to many many people as we've heard in this thread from some of them.

It is about how an individual feels & how their weight impacts on their life & their health. We have more people succumbing to preventable illnesses such as heart disease, cancer & diabetes now than any other time in history. The key does lie with our lifestyles & how those lifestyles impact on our health & wellbeing.

Nobody is saying that skinny is the best. However, being in a healthy weight range for your height is generally more healthy. Thats hard when you battle with your weight. It's really hard as our whole society is set up for an unhealthy weight range - our fast food, our portion sizes, our cookbooks, our cafes/restaruants.

I think this is a multi layered problem & it truly is such an emotive one for many many many of us.

[Bathsheba]

I have only skimmed this thread but before i do the school run I just want to mention something my Endocrinologist has told me: There is A LOT of untreated/undiagnosed thyroid disease out there that may be confused with diet related weight problems. I can't recall exact figures but it is a massive issue. Because i listen to my body i am one of the fortunate ones who has been diagnosed and am being treated. I have been called "skinny" when i got down to about 60kg (I am 5 foot 7 with big bones so a size 10) and now i am a size 14 and feel fat but am lucky no one has actually told me. i am eating pretty much the same foods as i did when i was size 10 as I am as size 14.

Please don't to be too fast to judge people.

[allycat06]

I know of short and tall people who get inane or thoughtless comments too.

Definitely. I'm 5'2 and often get people, even perfect strangers calling me shorty, midget etc DH and his brother ALWAYS get 'how's the air up there', giant, 'wow you're so tall' and other stupid comments. It's pretty tiring..yeah we know we are short/tall no need to point out the bleeding obvious! Neither of us are particularly insecure about our height but I'm sure there are lots of people who are and remarks like that would be very hurtful. People just don't think!

[AliBaby]

I havent read this thread properly just skimmed.

First of all to everyone.

I would never make judgement on anyone elses weight as I know how many issues I have physically and emotionally because of my own but I do want to add this.

I think society makes being skinny more acceptable thatn being fat.

Look at the models designers choose to wear their clothes down the run ways, even plus size models are generally an Australian 8,10 or 12.

You might go out to buy jeans and see "skinny jeans" that so many would love to be able to wear but you wont find "fatty jeans" there.

I think it is just a fact of life that skinny is much more dresirable than fat.

In a perfect world, there would be no judgement on skinny or fat but I know that if I was being judged I would much prefer to be judged as being skinny than being fat.

Maybe thats just because I am jealous of skinny people or not so much jealous but I have a desire to look like that.

Anyway that is just my opinion on the Opening question.

[Kazmar]

I havent read this thread properly just skimmed.

First of all to everyone.

I would never make judgement on anyone elses weight as I know how many issues I have physically and emotionally because of my own but I do want to add this.

I think society makes being skinny more acceptable thatn being fat.

Look at the models designers choose to wear their clothes down the run ways, even plus size models are generally an Australian 8,10 or 12.

You might go out to buy jeans and see "skinny jeans" that so many would love to be able to wear but you wont find "fatty jeans" there.

I think it is just a fact of life that skinny is much more dresirable than fat.

In a perfect world, there would be no judgement on skinny or fat but I know that if I was being judged I would much prefer to be judged as being skinny than being fat.

Maybe thats just because I am jealous of skinny people or not so much jealous but I have a desire to look like that.

Anyway that is just my opinion on the Opening question.

I get what you mean

But there is an awful lot of judgement from people other then those in celeb lives. IRL people judge me for being skinny as though natural skinny doesn't exsist and Id have to be sick to actually be thin!

I do think the judgment is harsher then being skinny as in, media etc BUT it seems to be focusing on the so called 'real women' being larger. I feel like crap when I hear this comment as I feel like just because I dont have 'curves' Im not a real woman, therefore not disirable (SP) kwim?

[Inanna]

I get that too. "Real Women" come in all structures not just curvy!
I have been a woman for a long time now & I've been thin & fat & in between - but I was still real!

I think we are running the risk in society of normalising obesity so as to remain as PC as possible also. Obesity for most of us doesn't feel good. It isn't good for our health, our self esteems or our emotions. However, labelling folk as either skinny or fat by others is thoughtless. For both "names" potentially can cause pain.

[deletedit]

BMI is definitely a joke. I'm currently a size 12, BMI 22, but I am 10kg overweight. My natural BMI is smack on 18.5. I'm just a small build ... I'm noticeably smaller than some of the other women around here, and they are most definitely not overweight.

This area is full of good, solid, country people who can heft hay bales and small cows around. I'm a lightweight and have troubles picking up anything much heavier than a chicken. Some people are built solid for a reason

[misty]

BMI is not a joke for around 80% of people of european / western descent. It can be innacturate for some members of the population (some people who have more muscle mass, certain ethnic groups, etc). However one thing that I have found through my employment is that most people who complain about how unrealistic BMI ranges are, are those people who most definitely 'should' be able to fit within it.

At work we will always accept a doctors letter giving a specific goal weight for an individual, because we see that 'any' weightloss is good, and not everyone does or wants to fit within that range. The lowest BMI we will accept as healthy is 18, and only within certain circumstances with certain individuals who obtain a letter from a health care professional that states that this is a healthy weight. I would suggest RE that you are one of the few who do happen to have a healthy weight at the lower BMI, particularly if you don't have any / little trouble maintaining that weight. (I am soooo jealous )

This morning I had someone try to tell me how rubbish the BMI is and how she is 'big boned' and will never get there. She isn't. But she didn't want to hear otherwise, so we set a higher goal weight and I will discuss the matter with her again as we get closer to that. People often underestimate what they are capable of and like to have 'reasons' (re: excuses) as to why they cann't get there. It is easier to let them come to their own realisations in their own time about these.

[Bathsheba]

Now this Big Boned thing interests me. I feel that I fit into this catagory. With size 9 feet and hands the same size as my DH I think these are clues... Especially when I compare myself to most women who seem to have on average size 7 feet and dainty little hands. I'd love to read about how your actual skeleton should determine your weight!

[misty]

Big Boned is a myth that somehow that particular persons bones weigh more then everyone elses. The truth is that bones make up a very small percentage of our actual weight. As for bone structure, the BMI does actually (for the most part - say 80% of the western / european descent population) take that into consideration. Hence why it is a healthy weight 'Range'.

My Healthy BMI range for my height is between 56kg and 71kg. As you can see that is very broad spectum of weight. I know I look good at between 60=65kg. Any less then that and I really look sick. I have sisters the same height as me and they weigh 56kg and 54kgs - (sizes 6 and 8) they look good at this weight and are fit and healthy. We have very different builds despit being the same hieght. I also have another sister who is a size 8-10, runs marathons and trains for triathalons, she is the same hieght and looks fabulous and 'skinny' at 70kgs - all of her is muscle.

[misty]

Just thought I would add that I thought size 8 was the average foot size
My sisters and I all have similar foot sizes, 8.5
I was a size 9 for a while when I was at my heaviest (101kg), I never knew until then that your feet can actually gain weight too.

[AnyDream]

Well actually people do comment - quite frequently- when they think people are fat. IMO, any commentary about people's bodies is in poor taste, but there are plenty of other people who feel no such compunction.

Misty - actually there are some instances where BMI is a crock of ****. My DH for example is measured every year, every year he fails and is referred for a muscle-fat ratio test...and every year they write him a special note indicating he has passed by virtue of the unusually large amount of muscle and the unusually low amount of fat he has. His body is quite literally denser than the next persons and hence he does not pass the BMI. The BMI is also mathematically out of whack for taller people (who are not just scaled up versions of smaller people, their frames are typically different):

For a given height, BMI is proportional to weight. However, for a given weight, BMI is inversely proportional to the square of the height. So, if all body dimensions double, and weight scales naturally with the cube of the height, then BMI doubles instead of remaining the same. This results in taller people having a reported BMI that is uncharacteristically high compared to their actual body fat levels.

The BMI was designed as a statistical tool for population studies and was never intended as a diagnostic tool for individuals. While BMI *may* indicate someone is over or underweight, it cannot be used alone as an accurate determinant of obesity or associated health risk factors.

[Ahurani]

Ive been taunted about my weight for a very long time. In year 7 I was 80kgs. I was in the school cricket team, long jump and shot put.

It was worse when I got to high school, I was bullied for 2 years by 1 particular girl. I was in the school soccer team, hockey and participated in interschool sports. It was hell. I danced from the age of 2 (tap, jazz, ballet and acrobats) and quit when I was 16/17 because my teacher said I was too fat to be in the new troupe. If someone said wow your skinny Id be like awesome lol. I think my BMI is about 41 now. Quite depressing really.

Its actually still quite upsetting now about how I got treated back then. Or Im just highly emotional atm lol

[misty]

Marydean - if you read my post you would see that I say that BMI is NOT infallible and that about 20% of people of European / western descent will NOT be covered by it. Those with high muscle mass being likely not too. I also thought I made clear that it is really only relevant to those of european / western descent, many other ethnic groups may not be covered by this: for example asians, ethiopians, etc.

BUT if you are a Woman of european / western descent, then the odds are that you 'should' be able to fit into this range or close to it - this is again not infallable, but the 'majority' should be able too.

Edit to say: It is very possible for someone to be fit and healthy and 'obese' according to the BMI.

[AnyDream]

Weight is a very emotive issue and I get really peeved when there is any insinuation that overweight people should just exercise more and eat less. I eat less than a 3 yo now to stay this thin (thanks to my lapband). Is that something someone should be able to sustain on their own? C'mon now. And exercising when you're heavy is very hard, sometimes painful and even with a lapband, many PCOS sufferers don't lose weight, because their body doesn't work like everyone else's. I had PCO and gained 25kgs in a year when I was younger. Was that me suddenly eating more and being lazy?

Weight is a personal thing and how you manage it should not be anyone else's business.

I think societally we are happy to make a whole lot of assumptions about why people are skinny or fat - when the reality of people's lives are frequently quite different to those assumptions. There is a lot of research at the moment about how stress vs happiness affects the biochemistry of weight gain, and it's one of the reasons why malnourished or impoverished children grow into wildly overweight adults. It's also true that once you gain or lose a certain amount of fat, your entire biochemistry around nutrition and fat storage changes. What's true for healthy adults in the "normal" weight range does not necessarily apply to people who are (on their own personal scale of health) under or overweight.

Yep, just ask all those breast cancer patients who gain on average 10 -20kg over the space of all of 6 months despite getting their breasts chopped off, even tho they have spewed their guts out for 5 months straight on chemo. It's the combination of the body's shock at being thrown suddenly into an artificial menopause plus the steroid medication that does it...not to mention the stress and grief involved in the process. Many of those women never lose all of that weight either, the changes to their bodies are profound. If was just about diet and exercise, this just would not happen.

ETA - sorry Misty, I read the post after that one and have only caught up with your previous post just now. It's also possible for people who are in the BMI-determined "healthy weight range" who are actually unhealthily overweight, by virtue of the amount of fat they carry relative to their muscle mass and skeleton (like you point out there are ethnic differences). There's a whole field of statistics which is about measuring people's height & weight & health etc (forget the name) but its quite complex. My point was that the BMI is really very crude whereas the reality of the health-body-size relationship is complex.