Why is ok to say, skinny and not fat?

[AnyDream]

An average (Western) woman has always been a size 14 or higher anyway. This is not a new thing.
Our bodies have never been that slim, size 10 was never average.

Sorry Limey, I have to spread the love...BUT the point I wanted to make about the change in the "average" size of women is that over the same period of time women are also TALLER on average than they have been in the past. This has to do with consuming more calories while we are growing (and hence girls are getting their periods earlier too) BUT this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a feature of a well-nourished population.

This is relevant to the size 16 comment that Inanna made because when your body is taller (and your skeleton is bigger) you may not fit into a size 10 or 12 or even a size 14 at your skinniest, most underweight. Also, even though the 'average woman' is now a size 16, the actual dimensions of the clothes sizing has changed over that time. Someone who used to fit into size 14 901s in the early 1990's, may not fit into a size 14 hipster jean now - even tho their body is the same size - but the cut of the clothes over that time has become straighter, fewer pleats etc.

I agree 100% that it's not healthy to normalise obesity, but I don't think that the change in the average dress size is a sign that that's happening. I think the size of the "individual serve" soft drink bottles is much more of a sign than that. Does anyone remember when a buddy bottle of coke was 210 mls?

[Bathsheba]

And just to make things even more complex (and a bit OT but thought I'd throw it in): there was an article i read somewhere about how some very thin people can still be carrying a dangerous amount of fat: around their vital organs. It's a genetic thing but can be made worse by smoking, drinking and other lifestyle factors (makes the fat build up too great). Fat is not only stored just under the skin, it is stored around your liver, kidneys, heart etc. Interestingly i experienced evidence of how my body stores fat recently when i went in for a scan due to kidney pain. The radiologist said he wasn't really able to get a good image because there wasn't enough fat around my kidneys! It seems as if the image of the organs was visible mainly due to an outline created by the fat layer... or that's how i understand it. Anyhow, not really relevant to this discussion... just something i have learned recently about how our bodies store (or don't store) fat! So whilst i lug around a particularly "ample" behind LOL at least I can be comforted that i have slim organs!

[Livinthedream]

Judging someone solely on face value can never be a good thing.
However, the current state of PC-ness and avoidance of just being realistic is not doing anyone any favors (my opinion)
The simple fact is, we are (generally) over fed and under exercised, and to try and pin a medical label on this phenomenon (in my opinion) is dangerous and a cop out.
I know so many people who have subjected themselves to a barrage of blood tests, hoping against hope that they have some kind of serious medical condition that predisposes them to being overweight, that its not funny. And it makes a mockery of the people who do have real issues.
I think we need to stop looking for the reason we are getting fatter, and start looking at how we can realisitically and sustainably stop over eating. ie, START with a reduction in portion size.

[Floweryfields]

I would say the reason people don't think twice as saying 'you're skinny' is because society has us all believing that skinny is very good while 'you're looking fat' is offensive because to be fat is a bad thing.

I am not dismissing how for someone like yourself, it could be quite offensive, but I guess it is societies fault why we all think this way.

[Floweryfields]

A couple of other thoughts I wanted to add -
though 'we' the society we see thin as healthy and fat as unhealthy, this isn't always right as already said - I worked witha girl who was very, very tall - maybe 6 foot or a bit taller, she was a thin as a twig, but ate an incredible amount of unhealthy stuff. She would eat entire packs of chocolate biscuits, cakes, chips, lollies, etc, etc most days of the week - so while she appeared healthy, I wonder what her cholesterol really was like. i also know a number of overweight people who eat very healthy diets, even myself at my lightest seem to only manage 70kg (I'm 5' 7) eat a very healthy diet though remain somewhat chubby.
I believe it does defintely come down to genes and metabolism as to how everyone balances weight.
Last year when I had my lap, I was 75kg and certainly didn't feel thin or healthy, yet the nurses and anaethetist all commented that I would be easy as I was so fit and healthy - I was on the top end of the BMI healthy range for my height.

Something else worthy of comment, is clothing styles that has been mentioned. Look at the 80's - high waisted jeans were the in thing, the waist line did up around the thinnest parts of the woman, now hipsters sit around the wider part of a woman - though lots of girls stuff themselves into a smaller size and have the hip fat fall over! In the 80's and 90's baggy was in, now we wear fitted clothing.

Not really on topic, but just rambling thoughts from my brain!

[LimeSlice]

MD two words...

Christina Hendricks.

The woman is stunning, and yet I am sure most people look at her and say she is fat.

One of my best friends in high school is huge - I mean she is about 6'5 and solid, she is sporty, and carries so much muscle it isn't funny (I think the phrase my brother used at the time was "brick sh**house". And she is, lol she used to say it herself.
But she couldn't be healthier, she was and still is, one of the most athletic and physically active people I know, she eats well, and pretty sure her heart is as strong as a horse.

The problem I have with people's labels on 'fat' and 'skinny' is that somewhere they have become confused with 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' or even 'fit' and 'unfit'.
Being 'overweight' or being 'morbidly obese' according to BMI (Which is where I apparently am, yet my mother who was only 2 inches taller than me, but weighed 30 kilo more than I do now, is only 'obese' - load of BS) is absolutely NO - NO - indication of health and fitness.
I was a size 6 - because I worked 60 hours a week next in a HOT kitchen, next to a 400 degree pizza oven, drank water like it was going out of fashion, barely ate and smoked a crapload of marijuana - if you had have asked me to run around the block I would have fallen in a heap with smokers cough probably. But Kylie (mentioned above) could (and still does lol) plays 3 games of soccer on a weekend and goes and does beach volleyball afterwards, but is 'overweight'.
My unlce, and ASIO agent (think James Bond), healthy as anything on the surface, barely drank, never smoked, ran 5kms every morning before work plus trainging...bolt upright in bed with no warning at 3 am, massive heart attack and dead in seconds.

The problem of course being, you cannot judge peoples fitness without testing it, and for some reason we all feel it necessary to judge ourselves in comparison to other people of our gender, height, age, station, etc...and when it comes to health, it is just not possible in most mid-range cases (excluding 400lbs people that can't move from the couch and the other end, the clearly unhealthily underweight waif catwalk models we saw a few years ago)

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Tangent - Limeslice, Christina Hendricks is the sexiest woman I have ever seen, LOVED her in Firefly. She has replaced Angelina and Scarlett as 'women I'd turn for'

[LimeSlice]

lol Same Berenice!
Mad Men is my fav, and I don't know how she pours herself into half the clothes they put her in but she is amazing.
Bit like when you see real photos of Marilyn Monroe

[sushee]

I do think the judgment is harsher then being skinny as in, media etc BUT it seems to be focusing on the so called 'real women' being larger. I feel like crap when I hear this comment as I feel like just because I dont have 'curves' Im not a real woman, therefore not disirable (SP) kwim?

Actually as someone who was obese and who now wears a size 6 (and is therefore considered 'skinny') it has been my personal experience that people who are overweight are judged much more harshly than people who are thin. And yes, most people would consider a person more attractive if they're thin than if they're overweight.

I've been on both sides of the fence and that's my observation anyway.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I must admit Dedicated Mummy, I always cringe when I see clothing made for plus size women marketed as being for 'real women'. That's just as offensive as saying I'm not sexy because I'm overweight - two sides of the same coin.

The day we all walk down the street without judging or being judged on outward appearances alone will be a giant leap forward

[Kazmar]

Actually as someone who was obese and who now wears a size 6 (and is therefore considered 'skinny') it has been my personal experience that people who are overweight are judged much more harshly than people who are thin. And yes, most people would consider a person more attractive if they're thin than if they're overweight.

I've been on both sides of the fence and that's my observation anyway.

Oh no, I meant I think when you're bigger, it's harsher

[AnyDream]

MD two words...

Christina Hendricks.

The woman is stunning, and yet I am sure most people look at her and say she is fat.

Ok now I'm kinda shocked...I didn't actually know who you were talking about (haven't ever seen Madmen but I've read ppl commenting about it) but when I googled, she actually seems like a totally normal not-fat-at-all person to me??!? With rather a magnificent bosom...

[Amethyst in the Rough]

I don't believe in making people feel crappy, about themselves etc.

But for as long as I can remember I have ahd "Gee your skinny" and be looked up and down like Im sick?!

Im not sick, Im 54kgs and long, I eat like a horse!

What Im getting at is why do people think its ok to say this, yet I never hear people say to somebody "Gee, you've stacked on the weight!" Or "Your fat, arn't you!"



When I was younger I would get these comments and HATED my weight Its still with me to question how I look. I hate it. Just because Im thin doesn't mean I love my body etc.

So tell me, why do you think its ok/ not ok?

I am not sure, but I think comments about people being fat and gaining weight happens sooo frequently and generally our society is more accepting of 'skinny'. Just look at our celebrities and models, thin is in.

If you are naturally thin embrace it! It is other people who have the problem in making judgements, not yours. Don't let it get you down - everyone is subject to some sort of judgement about their physique no matter what weight they are We just have to try to be happy within ourselves and move past all that.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Ok now I'm kinda shocked...I didn't actually know who you were talking about (haven't ever seen Madmen but I've read ppl commenting about it) but when I googled, she actually seems like a totally normal not-fat-at-all person to me??!? With rather a magnificent bosom...

I think it would be more noticeable if you stood her next to Angelina Jolie, because Christina is definitely curvy and has more meat than most Hollywood starlets these days - but I wouldn't even come close to saying she's fat That woman is hot, sexy stuff, and if I looked like her I reckon I'd be truly happy. Of course, if I looked like her, DH would never let me outta the house so that might get a bit painful

[Inanna]

I personally don't get the Christina Hendricks thing either. I have no idea who she is but I googled her after reading MD's comment. She looks pretty average to me??? I don't think she looks waifish but she isn't beefy either? She looks healthy.

She has bigger breasts than some - thus the voluptuous statements but to me she's just got a fairly healthy looking body??? Am I missing something?

MD my referral to a size 16 was probably not the best as it's not about dress size.

What concerns me is that we seem (societal we) unable to just call it. We are getting bigger. Obesity is massive (scuse the pun) in this country and other western cultures.

Somethings gotta change or we are all going to kill ourselves eating or conversely not eating.

I understand much of what Misty says I have heard it so many many times. "I'm just big boned"... We all have different builds and that's all good. Having excess tummy fat, inner thighs rubbing together, diabetes etc tells us we need to change something. That is dang hard I get that. I GET IT!!! I have had to lose weight. It was hard. But I wanted to be alive for my kids. I wanted to swim without feeling self conscious again. I wanted to walk without being puffed. I didn't wnt my knees to hurt. I wanted to feel good in myself.

We can say BMI is rubbish (which it's not - it's just not infallibe - it's a guide a very fallible guide but one none the less), we can say we have big bones. We can say it's all honkity tonk but the reality is 3 out of every 5 adults in Australia have a weight issue that will impact on their long term health.

The issue originally in this thread is commenting on that in a peer situation. It is not helpful. It can hurt. it's not polite. I wouldm't do it.

I look at friends who are really thin naturally and how they eat. They eat differently to what some of my larger friends do. They pick. They eat slowly. They move more. They have treats but instead of 1 slice they have half. Instead of eating quickly they chew really slowly.

Our culture is fast. We are in a hurry. Dinner is gulped. Food is gulped. Our tummy's don't register their fullness because it's all gone down too quick (I am including me here don't think I am not speaking personally!)

There is a small section of obese people who have conditions that make weight loss more difficult. However it's small. For the rest of us we have to relearn what our very unhealthy society has taught us is normal...

[LimeSlice]

Christina Hendricks is a size 18...and is 'technically' overweight. That was my point.
But she has been called fat all over the American media, despite the fact that for her role in Mad Men she is the same average size of most women from that era - when they were not 'fat' but beautiful.

My statement was in direct connection to the comment made about size 16 being a 'new' average size, and a contrast between generations and how those changes have changed the way we see body image - that is has very little to do with actual health or obesity, but perception.

[Inanna]

I just googled her size and it says she's an american size 10-11. So that makes her a size 14-15 Australian & she's 170cms tall so that makes her in the normal range I think? I'm not sure if it does or not but I'm pretty sure it does. (Misty will know this).

So,to me she's just a normal sized Woman with a DD top looking foxy!

Whoops sorry Limey we posted at the same time I think. xxx

[Floweryfields]

Ok now I'm kinda shocked...I didn't actually know who you were talking about (haven't ever seen Madmen but I've read ppl commenting about it) but when I googled, she actually seems like a totally normal not-fat-at-all person to me??!? With rather a magnificent bosom...

Actually that's what I thought - I didn't know her either and googled and was trying to find a picture where she looked fat - big boobies, but couldn't see a whole lot of wobbly bits. And if she's a size 16, then I should be wearing a 20 or something.... cause I am a 14 and am bigger than how she appears in piccies.

Sorry, bit off topic....