Anyone had a SCSA test for sperm fragmentation

[NAT025]

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone's DH has had a test called SCSA which checks for DNA / fragmentation damage?
And if it has come back positive, can it be rectified / improved in anyway?

[Mon]

Hi Nat,

My DH had this test done. I cant remember the exact result he got, but it wasnt the best. I think it was around 34%. My DH has triple sperm defect which is low sperm count, poor morphology and fragmented DNA. FS put him on a 3 month detox to see what happened to sperm results. He had to drink black tea 3-4 times a day, freshly squeezed OJ and limit alcohol to just 3 glasses of red wine per week. He tried but he wasnt that good at sticking to it. Hard for him to give up his beer, smokes and drink tea (he doesnt really like it). There was a slight improvement in volume and morphology, but DNA remained the same. I dont think much has been done to fix sperm quality. I would be interested to know. IVF in particular ICSI means that they can isolate the good sperm from the dodgy's and treat the problem this way. It's a business I guess. Ie. just go straight to ICSI and this will bypass the issue - well that is how I feel it has been pitched at us! I would be keen to know if there are ways to fix this!

Mon

[slyder]

But does ICSI isolate sperm without DNA damage? I was reading studies about this yesterday and I got the impression that whilst ICSI certainly allows the best 'appearing' sperm to be chosen, the DNA thinkg is pot luck. I may be wrong.

[belle333]

Hey Slyder - that is my understanding too.

[Amity]

My understanding is that the only thing which will determine DNA fragmentation in an embryo is PGD. They don't "check" sperm, as such, prior to fertilisation.

Good luck...

[slyder]

Divvy, SCSA is a test which solely looks at DNA damage in sperm cells. It isn't routinely performed, and not all labs can do it. But it can be done prior to fertilisation and independent of any embryos.

As for PGD, I'm no expert on it, but I don't think it looks for DNA fragmentation, only genetic abnormalities where a known risk exists.

[melbel]

PGD has many forms, none of which really look for DNA fragmentation in an embryo unless a known DNA deletion or translocation is known in the parent. The most common form of PGD looks at only 6 chromosome pairs only includig x and y and isnt actually testing at the genetic level it is merely doing a head count of these six chromsome pairs to make sure there are two of each. Basically they are stained with a radioactiive dye and what shows up under the microscope will be 2 red blobs 2 green blobs etc. If there is only one red blob or there are three purple blobs etc, you have a dodgy embryo and it is discarded. If you wanted to check for a genetic disorder which is the level that DNA fragmantation occurs at you would have to know exactly what gene strands you are looking for then the scientific team spend months finding a contrast that shows up that strand or gene (lke say the cystic fibrosis gene), then and only then can they use that contrast to test one of your embryos for that particular defect. It is a very specific test and will not pick up any other anomolies in the embryo.
Short answer PGD cannot check for DNA fragmentation as such unless the fragmentation is exactly the same in every single sperm which would indicate the father had a chromsomal translocation issue himself.
DNA fragmentation testing of sperm can identify a problem but is of no use in the IVF process beacuse the spermatozoa is killed in the process.

Quick lesson in PGD 101....hope that helps.

[NAT025]

Hi Guys
Thanks for all your replies. The test my DH is having done is not performed in my clinc in Perth. DH will have to produce his sample in Perth and then it will be frozen and sent to Sydney for testing. We are currently doing ICSI which does assist in trying to get the best sperm but the test SCSA tests for fragmentations which can't be picked up with out this test. My FS has told my husband to cutt out alcohol and he is taking menevit. So we will see what his results come back as. Fingers crossed thats its all ok. My thoughts are if the sperm had fragmentation and was unable to produce a baby with these abnormalities, then you wouldnt expect a blastocyst to be created would you? As we have two blastocysts

[slyder]

I agree Nat about the blasties, particularly if they are higher grade.

Actually, I read a study the other day where they radiated bovine sperm to damage the DNA, and then used it to fertilise bovine eggs. The eggs fertilised OK and there were the initial couple of cleavages, but further progress halted and out of many embies, only 2 made it to blastocyst. There was also a control group using normal sperm and more blasties were yielded from that group. So whilst it is possible - based on that study - to produce blasties from damaged sperm, the vast majority didn't make it that far.

[NAT025]

Hi Slyder
We currently have one blastie on ice and one we used last month. The one we have on ice is a Grade 2, is this good as I get different views on this grading

[slyder]

Not sure about the grading to be honest, Nat. Our clinic never gave us grades (well not numerically at least) so I don't know what is considered good etc. Someone else is bound to know.

[sushee]

Nat

grade 1 blasts have no or minimal fragmentation and as the number increases, the level of fragmentation increases, so a grade 2 would have some fragmentation, but not a lot. Anything graded a 4 or more won't be used.

But with regards to grading, many women have had success with grade 3 embryos, so I'd not worry too much about the grades myself. )

[NAT025]

Thanks Sushee and to everyone else for your replies. I now have a better understanding, just hope the results come back so I won't have to worry about any of this