Do you find this insulting?

[barney]

excellent Post Bg

[AnyDream]

I don't find it insulting, but I am concerned about the apportioning of medical resources to those who are in greatest need.

I'd hate to think that couples who are going through a long and possibly distressing journey to conceive via IVF might miss out on specialist care and attention when they need it because others are using it as a matter of convenience or choice, kwim?

I'm also concerned because when there is greater need, a demand-driven market tends to drive up prices, so again, a negative side affect could be an increase in the costs associated with IVF treatment for those couples for whom this is their only option.

[Dandi]

Hi there Briggy's girl,
Yes i couldn't agree more with the quote that you posted.I too have been what you have gone through & my heart & hopes are with you. Couldn't believe the ignorance & heartlessness of one post that said "who Bloody Cares". Clearly this person has no idea or respect for other people. If she had of read the question again she would realise that it's not suggesting that non-IVF babies are any less of a human being. The topic relates to peoples feelings on the appropriatness of IVF to gain twins in healthy couples. I actually pity this woman for her shallowness.

[Dandi]

Dear Smithy,
Good luck on your journey. I do understand what you're going through. I had 12 years of it. My thoughts & prayers are with you both. Good luck for your appointment.

[Lenny]

You brought up 2 really interesting points Marydean.
I hope that there no-one is missing out, or being priced out.

[JellyBean]

I don't want to comment on Brangelina per se, as I don't know that they were conceived via IVF, although I do find the idea of choosing IVF for the sole purpose of conceiving twins rather insulting. I think the '2 for the price of 1 mentality' should refer to shoes, not human beings!! I think babies are being increasingly viewed as commodities, rather than gifts. People are so particular these days about when they want kids, how many, what month, what star sign, what gender, etc etc.
In my opinion, part of the miracle of childbirth is that it is mysterious and left to chance.
Who says that having 1 boy and 1 girl will make you happier than having 3 boys, or 4 girls?? (Just an example- nothing against anyone who does have 1 boy and 1 girl!!).
IMO all babies are gifts- you get what your given and be darn grateful for each one of them.
Hubby and I are fortunate not to have suffered with fertility problems (we are both under 30), but if we did, we would undergo extensive mutual detoxing and Naturopathic pre-conceptual care, and if after that we could still not fall pregnant naturally, we would be turning to adoption before IVF. I fully understand the desire to have ones own biological child, but I could never see myself being one of those people who are willing to sell their cars, houses, and their sanity in order to conceive a child through IVF, when there are so many underpriviledged babies and children out there desperate for a good home, and someone to call mother. I'm still thinkin of adoption even though I know I can conceive naturally!! I think Brangelina have set an awesome example by adopting children from 3rd world countries. That alone tells me that it is highly unlikely they would have gone to the extent of IVF to conceive twins.... Just doesn't fit the picture IMO!!! Ok, I'll shut up now!!

[JellyBean]

PS- In regards to my post above, I don't mean to offend any IVF couples out there! I'm not saying IVF is wrong or bad or anything like that. Personally its just not a decision I would make. My heart does go out to anyone who is struggling to conceive naturally, via IVF or otherwise.

PPS- Adoption IS an option if it gets too tough!! he he....

[sushee]

In Australia, it is infinitely easier to gain access IVF than to access the adoption of a child. Australia has one of the most difficult, invasive, expensive and lengthy adoption processes of any of the developed countries. For an average Australian who wishes to have a child, they would be FAR more likely to have one through IVF than adoption.

Australia also has adoption laws that mean you cannot even keep trying to conceive via Assisted Conception once you start the adoption process. So in order to try to adopt, you have to stop trying to have a baby by any other means. Makes it doubly difficult, don't you think?

[Maruschke]

Hubby and I are fortunate not to have suffered with fertility problems (we are both under 30), but if we did, we would undergo extensive mutual detoxing and Naturopathic pre-conceptual care, and if after that we could still not fall pregnant naturally, we would be turning to adoption before IVF. I fully understand the desire to have ones own biological child, but I could never see myself being one of those people who are willing to sell their cars, houses, and their sanity in order to conceive a child through IVF, when there are so many underpriviledged babies and children out there desperate for a good home, and someone to call mother. I'm still thinkin of adoption even though I know I can conceive naturally!! I think Brangelina have set an awesome example by adopting children from 3rd world countries. That alone tells me that it is highly unlikely they would have gone to the extent of IVF to conceive twins.... Just doesn't fit the picture IMO!!! Ok, I'll shut up now!!

I am under 30 and have fertility issues! It is not always a function of age!.

Detoxing and naturopathic preconception care is a great idea, but doesnt always work.

Sanity does not need to be sold to undergo IVF, although these women do go through an incredible emotional rollercoaster each cycle.

Not all women are allowed to adopt. The waiting list is huge, it is incredibly expensive, and there are not as many children that we are allowed to adopt, even if we want to. The application process is incredibly invasive and doesn't guarantee an adopted child at all.

For some women, IVF is the only way they can fulfil their biological (natural) desire for a child. This is what IVF is for, its not a twin factory, and it shouldnt be used for fertile women who can conceive naturally (im ok with same sex couples and single women using it).

YES i find it offensive. Offensive, and incredibly hurtful. Its like a slap in the face.

[briggsy's girl]

ditto what sushee said - adoption in australia (including inter-country adoption) is just as expensive, and infinitely more difficult to achieve than a child through IVF. and given age restrictions (i'm only 28, DH 43) a lot of us would be excluded.

even the adoption of "special needs children" - the ones that need someone with open arms and an open heart, as well as the strength to take them on, is extremely restricted. you also can't concurrently be applying for adoption and going through assisted conception - there is an either/or mentality which is just ludicrous. why shouldn't you, given how difficult adoption is, and how many people want to adopt, be able to continue assisted conception - if you get an IVF miracle before you are at the head of the queue, you step out of the race and someone else gets to move up a spot...

adoption is australia is just damn hard

[meow]

PPS- Adoption IS an option if it gets too tough!! he he....

You obviously have very little idea about adoption. It's a very tough option.

[butterfly_warrior]

I am by no means an expert on the adoption process, but I have seen some of the hoops that need to be jumped through.

Keeping in mind that an IVF stim cycle has the potential to put me in hospital for a week or more while recovering, and the emotional toll of the miscarriages has been immense...

IVF is a much easier, cheaper and more accessible option than IVF, not to mention that it's quicker in many cases. The actual process of adoption in Australia is incredibly difficult and time consuming. You're looking at a 5 year wait for most countries for ICA, which puts a whole lot of people in the catch 22 situation of needing to stop fertility treatment to be able to adopt, but by the time you finally get there, you're then too old. But now also too old to conceive even through IVF.

The medicare rebates for IVF made it possible for us to pursue it as a treatment option. There are no rebates or financial assistance for adoption, and from all I have read, it is FAR more expensive than IVF treatment in Australia.

Not to mention that all the detoxing and naturopathic treatment in the world can't actually fix some fertility problems. There's no magic cure for DH's sperm problems. There's no simple way to make me ovulate. There's no natural remedy to the immune and clotting problems that make it hard for my babies to stick. Sometimes the only answer is to break out the big guns.

BW

[Devon]

JB

I'm sure you don't mean to be offensive to AC couples, but I do feel that the comment you made:

I could never see myself being one of those people who are willing to sell their cars, houses, and their sanity in order to conceive a child through IVF, when there are so many underpriviledged babies and children out there desperate for a good home, and someone to call mother.

Does make it sound like you think people who do IVF are being selfish for wanting their own biological child and that they should adopt an underprivileged child instead. I have no interest in adoption, if I couldn't have my own biological child then I would choose to have no children at all, that's just how I feel - I want my own biological child who shares my and my husband's genes. I think that's a pretty normal desire too and I don't feel bad about it. Adoption isn't for everyone, even if it were easier to do here than it is.

Not trying to have a go, just pointing out how that comment could be interpreted as a criticism of people who've undergone fertility treatment to have a child.

[melbel]

I hope you never have to go through the adoption process as you obviously have no idea of the logistics or cost involved. Fr one thing last year in Victoria a grand total of 14 children were placed up for adoption. If you wish to go overseas at present the current wait time is on average five years. During that five years you are waiting you CANNOT be undergoing any form of assisted conception, so what do you for that five years? twiddle your thumbs? (stupid stupid policy IMHO). Also the minimum cost to adopt a child is in the ballpark of at least $30,000 and that does not include the airfares and visas etc required to go to said country yada yada yada......

Also if you have ever in your life suffered from depression, have a chronic condition such as asthma, diabetes, arthritis, anything that makes you less than "perfect" forget it because although they are not supposed to be able to discriminate on the basis of health, the reality is that there are so few children availabel to adopt and so many people wanting to adopt that thee officials can be very very picky about who actually gets a child at the end of the day.

Personally i think having to twiddle my thumbs for five years doing absolutely nothing and having no child during that time, forking out an astronomical amount of money with no guarantee of a child at the end of it woukd be far more soul destroying than taking the more proactive approach of IVF. At least with IVF I am doing something and each test and/or cycle even if it fails brings us closer to understanding the reasons behind my infertility and closer to my goal of holding my own flesh and blood in my arms some day soon.

[briggsy's girl]

Mel

i have to spread the love though...

[Hollybolly]

Fantastic Mel

I too have to share the love

[butterfly_warrior]

It seems there's lots of us that love Mel way too much.

Fantastic post, Mel.

BW

[maz]

Wouldnt life be easy if EVERYONE could fall pg from rolling into the wetpatch on the bed!

Mel - your are a friggen star honey! Love being shared!!!!!!!