Do you find this insulting?

[butterfly_warrior]

It seems there's lots of us that love Mel way too much.

Fantastic post, Mel.

BW

[maz]

Wouldnt life be easy if EVERYONE could fall pg from rolling into the wetpatch on the bed!

Mel - your are a friggen star honey! Love being shared!!!!!!!

[dusty]

Ahhh JB to be so sure of how you think you would behave or choose to behave if you were in a position that you had to. Interesting perspective after you have already had two children of your own. If you do choose to go down the adoption path, I wish you all the best as it is probably harder than IVF in some ways. As the other ladies have so well outlined adoption is near impossible and getting harder to access all the time.

I actually shared some of your perspective when I was in my 20s. I felt it was a worthy decision to choose to have a child through adoption (when I hadn't even contemplated I may have difficulty conceiving my own child)because of many ideological issues I felt strongly about at the time...that was until I turned 31 and had the most amazing and overwhelming physical and mental urge for me to procreate. I never expected it to happen (hadn't thought about it much) and then one day BOOM! As an subfertile woman I sometimes wish it had never ever been switched on.

In my experience adoption is a long and arduous process and I really admire anyone that commits to going through it these days. As Mel said it takes years (ACT is now looking at 6+ years), you are at the beck and call of the adoption authorities, you can not undergo any Assisted Conception while going through it and must wait at least 6 months after finishing AC to be able to even submit an expression of interest to start the application process, or risk having to start the process all over again. You need to remain in the same state (you can't move away, take a job interstate etc) while your file is overseas (for an unknown period of time), having every aspect of your life looked over and judged etc. Adoption in Australia is increasingly difficult to access and success is not guaranteed.

Infertility can take a lot of time to diagnose, and then surgery or IVF seems the magic cure all, but not always. By the time adoption becomes more of an option in your mind years can have passed with the prospect of staring down at least 6 more years of the same old waiting. For me that would take me out to 10 years since starting TTC and I would be 45 by the time the child (if I were still eligible) would arrive. So no I don't agree with your PS that Adoption is an option if it gets too tough, and it misses the point that many things about infertility are tough, adoption is just as tough if not tougher than the rest of them.

[Caramello]

Devon,

Your post was not insensitive - actually it would probably be how I would feel, if I had the choice.

Thanks for your understanding.

Also thanks for your comment about my post - I'm feeling a little raw which is why I've stayed away from here for so long.

[suse]

Had to share the love Dusty -

[maz]

The silliest thing I find about this thread...the way people dont realise how insensitive they are when they say im not being insensitive! Who are they kidding?? themselves???

[sushee]

I think if, after all that, ANYONE is under any illusion that adoption is somehow an 'easy' solution to infertility, and even a solution to the very real, very complex issues associated with infertility, you truly need to educate yourself on the facts before contributing further to this thread.

Yet again this has become an attack on why someone would choose to do IVF, which is NOT what the topic is about. Make no mistake that we will not tolerate further derogatory comments about why anyone would do IVF or allusions to the state of mind of those who do IVF. If you really feel like an intellectual discussion about why someone with infertility would chose to do IVF, please feel free to email me. I have lots to say on the subject.

So now that we have made our points clear on that particular subject, can we please get back on topic.

[Willow]

Had second thoughts about posting

[Dandi]

Maz- love your post on wednesday.So true, so true. If only it were that easy re the wet patch. I laughed. I tried for 12 yrs & finally fell naturally. Bout bloody time i say!!! Have a good one. Day that is...

[nanananny]

Well I signed my release paper for the double egg transfer today

[Lissie]

I don't really care if she used IVF to get twins or not. We have to use IVF no way can we fall pregnant naturally but i just don't know why anyone would put themselves thru it if they did not have to, but yet again she would not have the emotional aspect that woman have that really need it, as she said she can fall naturally so she still has lots of options, IVF for most of us is expensive, emotionally and physically draining and most of us can only afford to do it for so long, where as Angelina has plenty of money, and can fall naturally so i don't think she would look at it the same as we must IVFers do. But she is not affecting my life so i don't really care what she does - but if the rumors are true that she only did IVF to get twins its sort of like ordering off a menu isn't it? But none the less she has two beautiful little babies to celebrate and i guess thats what we should all focus on.

[M7Missy]

It will have taken my best friend about 9 years before her overseas adoption is complete.

My heart breaks for her, that she will have had to wait that long. and that's not even including the time that they used IVF!

[Lenny]

All very well said Mel. Of course.

And JB - from now on can you get it out of your head that;
a) fertility issues are age related
b) adoption is easy - or easier than IVF
c) that fertility issues are related to health issues that can be fixed by healthy living
d) that you have any idea of what you would do if you couldn't conceive - you can, therefore you will never know what you would do in that situation, and can't possible say that it's not something you would do.

[Caramello]

So far I have stayed out of this discussion because I was not really sure of my opinion on the original question.

However, Jellybean, your statement:

we would undergo extensive mutual detoxing and Naturopathic pre-conceptual care, and if after that we could still not fall pregnant naturally, we would be turning to adoption before IVF.

has left me absolutely breathless with its insensitivity and naivity.

How I would dearly love to have the option a) to make the choice to have a child with my husband's genes and/or b) to adopt a child with my husband.

Please tell me how detoxing and natropathic care would have made my husband produce sperm? Believe me, we had one natropath guarantee just that - we gave her 6 months, and she could not do as she had promised. This was when we were clutching at straws for anything to work.

I could never see myself being one of those people who are willing to sell their cars, houses, and their sanity in order to conceive a child through IVF,

Please tell me how a man finding out he can never be a father biologically, and his wife, can hold on to all aspects of their sanity? Needless to say, when you are told that you will NEVER be able to produce a child biologically it does things to your mental health - we were lucky to survive the bouts of anxiety and depression and come out the other side with a marriage and the intention to have a child.

And of course, because of these diagnoses, we will never be able to adopt.

So we are putting all our time, money and energy into having a child via IVF.

And my answer to the original question - no I am not insulted, just amazed that people would put themselves through the pain and heartache that we have, in order to have twins.

[Devon]

Top post Gargy.

I hope my post didn't annoy you, I did wonder if my going on about biological children would be offensive to people involved in donor processes. If it was insensitive, I apologise.

I have wondered what I would do if either DH or I couldn't have a biological child, and I do know that it's something I can't possibly decide on because it hasn't happend to me. To be honest, I feel that even if I couldn't be the biological mother, I would use donor eggs with my husband's sperm or vice versa because a huge part of it for me is to carry the baby in my body to to give birth, I feel like that would be integral to *me* feeling like a mother. Not that I'm saying people who haven't done that aren't real mothers - of course they are, just talking about my feelings.

So anyway, I really hope that my post didn't hurt your feelings or come across as insensitive.

xxxx