Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - Oct 2007

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 11:06 AM

hmmmm well Ok I think......not as "FERREL" as yesterday...just still abit anxious....always needing to pee...is that a sign or is it just my diabetes??????
Do you thinkits too early to do a HPT???? I have 7 days to go????If I was pregnant and had my transfer on Monday being the 8th.......would that mean I am 1 week overdue with my periods if it was done naturally...god Im so confused???

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 11:08 AM

Ellie, it's basically the same meds as last cycle. I needed the prednisone for arthritis relief back in winter, and knowing now that I have too many NK cells, and observing the spotting every time I reduced my prednisone dosage, we're going through this cycle with more. 20mg of prednisone (was 10mg for the first cycle) in addition to everything else I take for the arthritis, PCOS and anxiety. I'm not even going to count all the tablets I take in a day now!

I'll be on the higher dose prednisone and metformin right through to 12 weeks this time. Having read a little bit about how metformin acts to prevent miscarriage in women with PCOS, there's no way in hell I'm reducing my dosage this time, regardless of what my GP/OB/FS says!

Short summary: There's a substance called glycodin released in the uterus which helps stop the immune system from attacking a fetus. The immune system is correct in identifying the baby as different from the mother, but is incorrect in attacking it and trying to make it go away. Women with PCOS don't produce enough glycodin, and metformin helps them create more. During my first pregnancy, I was on not enough prednisone, and then in the week before the miscarriage, not enough metformin. I suspect that it was a combination of both that led to things turning bad.

I suspect that in my case, neither the NK cells or the PCOS on their own would be a significant cause of problems. My FS just looks at the PCOS, and thinks of the arthritis as being normal arthritis and hence not a problem. My rheumy looks at my arthritis and doesn't consider the influence of the PCOS in pregnancy problems. Each of them is so focussed on their little bit of the picture that they ignore the rest. It wasn't until we saw Dr S that we realised just how much the two (weird arthritis and PCOS) need to be considered together in order to get me through a pregnancy. I suspect the two conditions feed off each other and make the other one worse than it should be, but this is just my speculation rather than medical opinion or fact.

And I'm sure that won't make sense to a lot of people!

BW

**Ellie** · October 12th, 2007, 11:14 AM

WOW BW - That's great progress though...like...makes sense! My FS has me lined up with prednisolone, antibiotics and the usual supports but I have been wondering about the metfor...I might ask to take it too...taking everything else...why not hey!? Got to get the courage up to start first...and AF arriving would be a huge help..I'm CD 40 something...so premenstral could KILL someone!@?! Where's Lou these days?

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 11:15 AM

BW...
It makes total sense...just doesnt make sense that it has to happen to you.....everything is just not fare....

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 11:34 AM

Do you have PCOS, Ellie? If you do, then I'd really strongly suggest that you do get metformin as well. I can totally understand the scared to start thing... I'm still utterly terrified of this FET coming up. In many ways I'm not sure which is the more scary prospect - it working or not working.

BW

**dusty** · October 12th, 2007, 11:45 AM

you have been busy in here this morning. it is so interesting to hear your perspectives. when i first heard the statement/fact on the radio a couple of wks ago i was shocked. it wasn't something i had ever quantified for myself- just dealt with and gone on with my life - additional stress included. i had a short episode of cancer (malignant melanoma) a few years back but it was dealt with quickly and i had a good outcome so for me the stress was abrupt (unlike infertility which builds over time) and they had treatment for me and my prognosis and treatment was always very good (not so with my infertility). i also didn't know much about it and by the time i did i was on the recovering safe side. this was my experience and i know i was very lucky and didn't have ongoing suffering like many cancer suffers.

it is a fact that a lot of people do experience great anxiety and stress with infertility, and i believe there is a perception in the wider community that IVF will solve infertility issues for most people. ellie is spot on - it is hard to live within this spotlight while society in my opinion really doesn't want to hear too much about your experiences with infertility. infertility is seen as a personal journey - behind closed doors, dealing with cancer is i think more out in the open with people willing to wanting to understand. but hey this is my perception.

i was the open advocate like many of you, but now after several attempts i am tired and don't want to talk about it with fertile people (everyone i know). but the best thing for me is i don't feel i have to talk about it with fertile people (gosh this is sounding like an us and them) as i can come in here and know that there is a level of understand and empathy i cld never have imagined existing before.

TL best of luck with your scan hun
BW i was chatting with my GP today about my asthma which is aggravated ATM and i was adament i didn't want to consider having prednisolone prescribed in the lead up to a cycle. what don't i know about it and TTC with IVF/FET?
ellie i agree re the respect in BB and here, i find it invigorating to hear perspectives and learn and grow so much more with it. come on AF!
carla your colleague lacks many decent human qualities

rols, what is wrong with yr back (sorry may have missed this along the way).

dusty

slyder · October 12th, 2007, 12:34 PM

Dusty, you definitely bring an interesting perspective to the board, given you've experienced both sides of the coin.

My back is just stupid. Never realy had any problems with it, occasionally the very lower part of my spinal area aches a bit if I go crazy in the garden, but last weekend I aggravated it (in the garden) and it hung around much longer than usual - ie. the next day it's usually fine. So it was there all week and yesterday I went to lift DW's mountain bike into the ute and bang. Haven't been able to walk, sit or lie properly since. Yesterday afternoon I got up from laying down and ended up on my knees coz I couldn't stand. It'll blow over, but it's bloody annoying.

slyder · October 12th, 2007, 12:38 PM

Carla, I guess what works for you may not work for someone else. I understand and respect that for some people, being totally open about the whole experience workds best. But for me, the thought of many people knowing horrifies me, just because I can't stand the expectations and the questions and the constant reminders. Plus, I cannot stand pity and that's what people do. Hardly anyone I know offers a brighter perspective on things - it's always "oh that's terrible", or "you poor thing". It's not terrible, it just needs to be dealt with.

That said, good friends of ours - the only ones to not react in some greek tragedy manner - reacted so well because they'd already got to know about IVF through a colleague who is totally open about it al. So there is definitely some merit to that argument as well, no doubt about it. Basically, I just don't wanna be the one.

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 12:54 PM

Rols
Well i guess if we were all the same it would be a boring world!
I myself tend to cope better with the support of my family and friends....

**sushee** · October 12th, 2007, 01:01 PM

I'm on the laptop at the new house waiting for the removalist to arrive with my stuff so don't have a lot of time, but wanted to comment that I too was of the belief that the more I talked about IVF, the more support and understanding of it I would see, but in truth, that didn't happen. I too got tired of trying to explain it to fertile people, esp when it was taking all I had to keep my own spirit together. Now however, I am a vocal and steadfast IVF advocate, but then again I have the luxury of it now. I think IVF advocacy is not necessary best undertaken when you're going through it. If you feel strong enough, then I salute you. But it's often the ones who've been through it, come out the other side - whether with or without a child - who become IVF advocates, as they know that they have been forever changed, and will never look at the issue of fertility the same way ever again.

For me, advocacy is more about helping people not only understand the difficulties we have to endure, but to ensure that IVF is freely available, affordable and that IVFers are not discriminated against in politics, funding or by the general public. It's taking a stand against statements like 'women who do IVF are selfish career women who left baby-making too late' or 'IVF mums should be grateful to have whatever they get' (just to name two recent examples). It's about educating people to be sensitive, empathic and aware of the facts, not the hype.

That's something you do throughout your whole life, not just when you're in a cycle, so anyone who doesn't feel like being their circle of friend's spokesperson for IVF, I totally get it. Don't worry, I'm sure that in time to come, you'll have taught more than a few people to see IVF through different eyes.

**tiggerlinda** · October 12th, 2007, 01:51 PM

Carla glad to hear you are a little better I too need the support of family and friends

We have had our scan 4 follicles that will be ready a little lower than what FS wanted however he said there are some tiny ones and we will try and grow them over the weekend and scan again Monday at 11. All going well then egg pick up will be on Wednesday! Grow my babies grow!

**Ellie** · October 12th, 2007, 02:31 PM

YAY Sushee...well said! I find I can talk/ advocate when I'm not in a cycle...recovering from mc etc...but when I'm in the middle of it...BB is the place for me

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 02:37 PM

Tigger, Great news.....what size were they????

**tiggerlinda** · October 12th, 2007, 02:46 PM

He didn't say what size they were and is great new I was just a little dissappointed as we have had 8 plus before however these little ones with grow and hopefully that will make 7 or 8 fingers crossed.