Why do people think it's ok?

[Rouge]

I think the thing to remember too is that everyone is different. I have had 3 friends who were very open with everyone about their IVF journey, one took 7 yrs to conceive and then lost both tubes to ectopic pregnancies but finally fell pregnant with a little boy. Another concieved after 4 yrs and IVF. So what may be private, invasive for one may not be so for another, and then you have people who find it offensive if you don't ask. I have never been there so I can't say how I'd feel, I know with LTTTC I never really had a problem with questions people asked but as I said it is different for everyone.



BW I'm sorry you are going through this it really sucks, and Nadine I think you are very brave to have put forward your thoughts and I respect you for that. I don't think anyone unless they are horrible, ask these things to hurt people, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

[LuluHB]

I think people do it because like others have said, they're interested (which is nice) but also because they don't want to miss out on the "gossip" (not nice!). They're also people who have absolutely no idea what you're going through, and just what sort of emotional rollercoaster IVF is. If they did, they'd have the brains to know the last thing you want to do is talk about it until you have that beautiful little miracle to show for it. I'm blessed not to be in your position, but my SIL was and she was hugely upset by people's complete lack of understanding of what she was going through. She eventually told people they had stopped trying to have children, even when they hadn't.

Good luck to you BW, and to all you other ladies going down such an enormously difficult road. May you all be holding your beautiful babies soon.

[Mel1977]

You are all so right, just because someone is aware of a persons circumstances doesnt mean they are on the journey with them. It is different to have close friends and family ask, but I find they more ask things like "how are you feeling" or "how are the meds making you feel" and it is really out of concern. I dont think I would take too kindly to work colleagues or anyone I would consider an acquitance even asking about what is essentially a baby-making process. It is very invasive, degrading and personally I found it embarrassing at times. As BW said, especially in theatre when there are quite a few people around. I can laugh about it afterwards with my sister, but thats cause of who she is.

I see is as would you say to someone in passing "how is your thrush going" or "how are you feeling after your pap smear" - its kind of similar, anything to do with your girly bits is extremely personal. This is even more so because not only is it a personal issue but also quite an emotional issue which is for the most part heartbreaking, stressful, and scary (well for me anyway).

I think it would be good to leave it here also, knowledge is power.

BG & BW I hope your nights improve a little and you have good weekends without insensitive people bringing you down

[Nadine216]

But that is exactly my point - I (and ppl who does not know what is going on) does not KNOW that you are probbed and tested and how long you have been ttc and failure after failure. I don't KNOW what happens when someone IVF, I only know that they are having trouble getting pg. You guys talk about needles and OHSS and follicle scans and god knows what. It sounds horrific and I GET that. God, I would be scared out of my mind if I have to go through something like this. I can understand that you are p!ssed and hurt and sad and just plain sick of everything.
(I forgot what point I wanted to make)
BG - I meant the whole being pg journey. True, you don't invite ppl into your bedroom to enjoy the ride, so to speak. But once pg EVERYONE wants to touch your belly, buy your bubba gifts, ask how are your pg are going, say that you should not stand so much - that journey. I would just like to know what to say?? Or do you just shut up? And I can recpect that you ask a person how are YOU doing, not how are your IVF going.

[butterfly_warrior]

I guess the key point here is to ask and find out exactly what it is that each person going through assisted conception wants in terms of support.

If someone tells me that they are thinking of me, fine, I can deal with that. When someone wants to get intimately involved with the process, not fine. When someone starts to act like an IVF expert just because they read a newspaper article - NOT FINE!

I guess it comes down to simple respect. My mother has been cut out of the information loop because she could only ask me how "things" were going. If she can't give me the respect of naming my infertility and the treatment I need, then she's not going to be given the respect of being told what's going on.

And just to make things super difficult for everyone - there's times where I'll be super-open about everything. And there's times when I'll want to completely clam up. Take your lead from the person undergoing AC, I don't think it's possible to give anyone a set rule of dealing with it. Even for myself the way I feel about it all changes from day to day, I can't imagine that anyone else would be much different.

BW

[Nadine216]

Thanks Cailin,
That is what I want to figure out. What do you say to someone that you don't really know that well, like at work or a mom at day-care, but still want them to know that you are feeling for them and that you are there if they need a shoulder. It's not as easy as doing this - :hugs:
I know you are right about ppl being different and treating their IVF different and the manner in which they handle the questions and everything else.
to you BW - I don't want to work you up more than you already seem to be

[butterfly_warrior]

Sorry, Nadine. I've been generally feeling grumpy today - it's one of the side effects of the meds for IVF and my arthritis that I have to take. Fortunately, not everyone has to take this one.

If it's any comfort, you're not the only one who's had the misfortune of getting in my way today when I've been venting.

I am starting to calm down now, though - I think I just needed to get it all out of my system!

BW

[Nadine216]

BW, no need to apologise! I don't feel like you gunned me!
Am glad that you are calming down I get the idea that you can be a real fire-cracker (and I mean that in a good way)
Good thing you can come here and get it out!

[diva det]

i understand why you get cut when people ask you about whats going on with IVF
my theory is this:
the only control we have over the whole IVF process, is who we tell. When people try and push the boundaries that we are not comfortable with, it takes that control away from us again.

ok so that's is one of my IVF theories- i am full of them!!! pretty sad hey!!
just remember BW,if people ask, just to tell people that you are not up to speaking about it at the moment- and leave it at that. If they are really concerned about how you are doing, then they will leave it at that. If they keep on pushing, then they are only interested because they are nosy and can't mind their own business.
one way to find out who really cares for the right reasons
good luck with your journey
odette

[all girls]

Hope you feel better now BW.

I can fully understand why you get so worked up, just another damn thing. Good luck with it all sweetie.

Good on you Nadine for wanting to know more.

[briggsy's girl]

nadine, before i start with this response, i want you to know this is not directed at you in anyway - it is in general about what has been happening

yes, on BB - we DO mention things like needles, OHSS, follicle scans, EPU, IUI, ultrasound - and we tend to discuss it very openly and at times in detail - so yes, in this forum, we're opening ourselves up to being questioned about where we're at, how we're doing - there is a huge amount of anonymity on here - and we can choose to answer or ignore the question at will. and the people on BB that ask the question are genuinely interested - a lot of people you deal with in your everyday life are, as LuLuHB mentioned, merely wanting to be i"n the loop" or "up on the goss"

in person, you can't do that. you can't tell a person to mind their own p's and q's (although i pretty much did this morning - luckily the person in question has the same sort of smart alec attitude) - you can't choose to look at a different thread, shape your answer or go back to it - it's in your face all the time - your responses are demanded there and then and a lot of people who are blunt enough to ask outright without thinking first about how you'll respond, arent going to read the body language that shows you are uncomfortable with the conversation... i guess i'm in agreeance with BW in that taking the lead from the person is THE way to go - if they mention it, then obviously they're in a place that day to discuss it, but otherwise, probably don't go there

and as for everyone wanting to be a part of your PG journey - personally, i'm not keen on that either - i'll ask how someone is doing in general - if they mention their pregnancy then i'll talk to them about it - but i don't push the topic unless they bring it up. i haven't ever put my hands on someones stomach just because they are pregnant, because i personally see that as invasive of their space - again, if they choose to put my hand there i'll do it - but i wouldn't just do it because they have a belly. i wouldn't tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing while pregnant - and would only ever offer advice if i was asked - maybe i'm different to others in that - but i HAVE had my personal space invaded so much, that i just can't do it to someone else. i always put the person first - talk to THEM - and if the conversation turns to their pregnancy at their instigation, so be it.

again, this is ME and MY opinion - i'm not saying how anyone else should do things...

[Roryrory]

BW I am sorry that these sorts of invasive questions are getting you down A nice guy at work and his wife are going thru IVF ATM and sometimes he talks to me about it, other times not, but I guess maybe its cause I generally have a chat to him every morning any way that he feels comfortable? I kinda get the feeling he needs to talk sometimes because he is his wife's support and maybe needs to talk or offload. Around their first cycle I think I used to say vague stuff like "how are you two going" and let him take the lead.
I think you are right on the money when you say

Totally different to the random work colleague that you would never see outside of work (unless by coincidence or forced into it), who seems to do it every time she sees you

I think those ppl are just being nosy!

But you know BW, I am convinced that by reading posts and journals usch as yours I am more sensitive to ppls feelings when it comes to IVF and trouble conceiving, and I really appreciate you and every one else on BB sharing your journeys.

[butterfly_warrior]

Thank you, Roryrory.

One of the reasons I chose to share so much of my journey initially was the fact that I wanted people to know what it felt like. I was sick to death of the "just relax" and "go on a holiday" comments that I went on a single-minded crusade to obliterate all misconceptions about infertility...

It's nice to know that there are some people around who have a better understanding of what to do and say because of my experiences, even if it's painfully obvious that there are some that I will never get through to (work colleages, not taking pot shots at anyone here!)

Getting into how men cope with it is another matter entirely. DH has a few friends that he does talk to, which is good. He's also kept his supervisors at work informed (they do need to approve the RDOs, after all!), but I do wonder if he gets the same sort of questions I do. Perhaps it's different for the menfolk, I don't know. Rols?

BW

[Visitor9]

I did 3 stim cycles had 1 late miscarriage through IVF and no-one but my best friend knew we were doing IVF (she did my first Stim injections and ironically I had to return the favour yrs later). When I lost my baby my world fell apart and no longer I wanted people to think that our reproductive life was as simple as what they might of considered a "accidental" pregnancy.
I can remember telling my MIL how it hurt so much (loss) and she said well you are young and healthy..little did she know of 12 constant months of IUI's clomid, 3 operations, 2 stims it all goes on. To turn around and say no we had to do IVF almost guttered her as she lives so close and is here alot she told us later she felt like she had been betrayed.
My work place was a fantastic place although they asked they gave me time to cry and avoid patients that were heavily pregnant. Without asking questions
BBQ's were amazing places to have every Tom and Harry asking questions that usually started with isnt it expensive followed by "So what do they do?" With DH permission I would tell people the process of collecting sperm with the huge needle and how they use a device that is inserted down my throat and with a claw system to allows the ovaries to be pushed near the anus and make up all sorts of stuff ..in the end they would say really!! And I'd say no and walk away.
The couples that would say we are venturing down this avenue of course I knew they wernt prying so I'd be honest and supportive.
I have learnt alot on my journey to have a child but none more important than although you may see a pregnant woman or someone may want to talk to you about your situation you never know what they endured to get to where they are today.
Bec
~My mum and dad know we do IVF but have never asked why, they just ask if we need a lift anywhere , dinner cooked or a hug they are the questions I loved!

[Nadine216]

BG - no worries, I asked.
I see your point. Good thing we have BB, because I can't see myself having this conversation anywhere but here, either.
As for the personal space when pg. I hear you, but not all ppl are like you. I had total strangers walk up to me and touch my belly, I got gifts from ppl that I don't even know!!!
Just, thank you for being so open.

[Nadine216]

Gee Bec, you almost had me there!!

[slyder]

Jeez, your internet connection goes down for 3 hrs and you get sooo far behind...

Nadine, good on you for asking questions. It probably isn't easy when you've got the IVF gang in here looking to crack a few heads (I mean that in a good way, not saying that anyone is being agro).

BW, with regard to your question about what things are asked of the bloke by others, I can say from my experience that as I have told very few people I get very few questions. Those I have told (my best mates) have been great, and have asked quite a few questions because they are typical blokes and have absolutely no idea about IVF. That is no problem. My boss who is also a mate has asked a few questions but leaves it up to me to volunteer. Two of my other managers know by necessity, but neither have ever raised the issue since I told them which I appreciate. Mum and Dad are pretty keen to know what goes on, and we tell them stuff too. Although had it not been for me asking them about their infertility issues (to see if I had inherited something from Dad, which I haven't coz it was Mum that had the issue) I wouldn't have told them because my Mum is a complete pain in the arse and I try and avoid her where possible.

It's a bit hard to know what people would like to ask, and would be interesting to see had I told more people. I suspect a lot wouldn't ask me anything at all because I seem to have this reputation as being somewhat difficult to get along with, hence people are often careful what they say. I'm not that difficult, I just don't know how to engage in small talk and what I describe as time wasting conversations, and I also tend to say if something annoys me, and this puts people off. Which is fine because then I have less ****heads to deal with.

BW, something else which I've thought about before, but not raised, is the issue you have with our mother only asking how "things" are going. In this thread you have made it clear that you don't like people going beyond their station and asking personal and probing questions. Now I realise your mother is not Joe Public, but it seems to me that she may either 1) Have little understanding of what IVF involves and is therefore reluctant to ask, or 2) She is getting the vibe that you don't want to share too much, or she is worried she is interfering, therefore by stating "things" she's hedging her bets - showing an interest, but trying to avoid being nosey. Of course, you're in the best position to judge this and I don't know your Mum. But it may be food for thought?

[Nadine216]

No, I like the IVF gang, even when they get a little rough