BEWARE - sleep advice from the 'experts' MAY BE DISTRESSING

[~Kim~]

I had a paed at a sleep school tell me that it was OK for her to scream until she vomitted if that's what it took....she was a mum of 4.
Needless to say her credibility took a nose dive, as did the sleep school and we left. It was private too so people actually pay to go there.

[boomba]

I am wiht you heaven should not have read it
I am actually feeling physically ill about that poor little baby being so distressed

As mums we have to do what is right for our babies, but we shouldn NEVER EVER go against our own hearts and judgement....no matter what someone told me to do I could not ever let my child get so hysterical I would prefer to cry a million tears before letting my precious baby scream

When did our babies become so inconvient and sleep become the be all and end all of parenting? Nothing, NOTHING is more important than my babies...I dont care that I am sleep depreived or have no grown up social life they will be tiny for such a short time and I will only do what feels right in my heart.

Off to hug my babies...sorry for the rant!
And OP Big higs hun what an awful thing to be told

[babymiracles]

Sorry Heaven and Boomba - it is distressing and wasn't my intention to just pass on the distress. Just wanted to make people aware that this advice is being given still. I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments and have also advised someone who works with the Infant Mental Health group of these examples - something should be done about these particular medical experts I think! I also agree that I could not let my baby cry for even 10 minutes without attending to her even if all the doctors in Australia told me too!

[Dansta]

babymiracles: i've fond that the amber teething necklace has helped DS - but i got that when he was 12 months - other mums around the traps swear by them.

I agree that babies are so little for such a small amount of time i'd take getting up and cuddleing my LO - even if there was nothing i could do - then let them cry for so long on their own. DH has made a good point in the past "every one wants their kids to grow up so fast yet they complain when they do" no medical 'expert' would EVER be able to over ride my mummy intuition. they are my babies, not a number, not a study but my baby. its one thing to take a few moments to get to your child (IE shower!) but tis another thing to leave them to cry/scream for so long, maybe these "experts" need the shoe on the other foot - we'll lock them in a room on their own for 7 hours (or until THEY throw up )and see how they cope and repeat until they feel like a young, defenceless baby feels. im fairly sure that we'd be arrested for false imprisonment!

[Starfish]

OMG! Can you please tell that last mother to put in a formal complaint? Actually, the should all do so. These so called experts should have their licences revoked for giving that advice... I was terrified reading that post that the story would end even worse than it did. That is shocking. Don't these people realise that a child can die in that space of time?? And what's with this "don't go in no matter what". No one should ever say that. No matter how strict your routines, etc, there will always be situations where you HAVE to bend the rules (e.g. if the baby gets stuck in the cot or something).

[Ginger]

Good point Starfish. how do they know that the poor bubba's arm wasn't stuck or that they had the sheets over their head or something? it's horrible that vulnerable parents who are looking for support are given advice like that.

maybe this thread should come with a warning? i'm going to be thinking about that poor baby in a cot surrounded by poo and vomit all night now....

[alioops]

As much as I dislike some forms of sleep training I am a big believer that if they are to be done they should be done in a supervised situation like a sleep school so things like this do not happen.

Hun Torrens House is a sleep school.

One of the lovely ladies on here took her DD to sleep school before she was 2, and they tried to make her wean and all sorts of other things against the WHO code. It is disgusting what these places do. They should be encouraging mothers, not telling they are doing everything wrong.

[babymiracles]

Hun Torrens House is a sleep school.

One of the lovely ladies on here took her DD to sleep school before she was 2, and they tried to make her wean and all sorts of other things against the WHO code. It is disgusting what these places do. They should be encouraging mothers, not telling they are doing everything wrong.

Just wanted to say I actually went to Torrens house when DD was 10 weeks - they do not do crying it out at all and were actually fantastic for the feeding problems I was having with DD and they were incredibly supportive. I imagine some sleep schools are better than others

[boomba]

Sorry Heaven and Boomba - it is distressing and wasn't my intention to just pass on the distress. Just wanted to make people aware that this advice is being given still. I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments and have also advised someone who works with the Infant Mental Health group of these examples - something should be done about these particular medical experts I think! I also agree that I could not let my baby cry for even 10 minutes without attending to her even if all the doctors in Australia told me too!

Thats ok hun, I have heard lots of distressing stories just like this. I have had to actually not let myself read them etc as it has become really distressing...but oops read yours lol......I also had to remember I cant save every baby from having to cry themselves to sleep at night...i am not talking a grizzle I am talking full blown distress cry...cause it is just breaking my spirit and trust in human nature

x

[JellyBean]

That is exactly why I trust my intuition above someone wearing a white coat with an MD on the wall. What a hideous joke. Those poor babies..... the third scenario is just plain dangerous......

So glad the first 2 couples were not silly enough to follow the advice. I hope the last couple went back to tell the paed how they found their baby the next morning. These 'experts' all too often refuse to except personal experience or anecdotal evidence simply because their medical archives don't support that. The Lancet is not gospel!!

[~MummaBear~]

this is shocking i cant believe that someone with a medical degree would say that is is fine for a child to be left for 7 hours. What i find even worse is that thoes parents stood by for 7 hours while their child was abviously hysterical. what parent in their right mind would leave a small child screaming for 7 hours? Sure the Drs have alot to answer for but for goodness sakes why do parents not think about these things. Anything could have happened to that poor little bub in that time... all for a good night sleep... i wonder how well they would have slept for the rest of their lives if something had of happened. I dont understand why people dont trust their instincts....

[Shanti]

I know we all need to support each other as Mum's but at the end of the day.... it's not only that 'health expert' that gave that Mum (last story) bad, horrible advice fault.... but also the parents of that baby need to take responsibility there for what happened also.
SURELY they knew within their hearts that they were doing the wrong thing by their baby and that there HAD to be another way? A better way? just upsets me that so many parents actually believe and follow what they are told instead of seeking other help!

Boomba - you worded that well babe. When you said "when did our babies become such an inconvenience....." etc.... well said.

[Boo Boo]

7 Hours !!!!??????????????? OMG I used to get stressed after 7 mins if I had to leave DS to cry to take a break from it in the early days!!!

With DS I refused to listen to any advice (professional or otherwise) about sleeping/crying it out, etc.....I would nod and smile but walk away from people thinking, no way will I take your advice, it was rocking to sleep for us !!

Poor poor bub

[*Beema*]

OMG that is just horrible

A friend went to Torrens House and got similar advice, she chose to just keep going with the co-sleeping and doing it their way.

That last story was just horrific, I could not have done it, I feel so sorry for the parents, they must have felt absolutely horrible at the end of the seven hours and felt that they had to listen to the Paed's advice

DD didn't sleep through until well after 13 months, and I think that is pretty normal TBH.... there is no way I could have left her for any length of time compariable in those stories

Telling parents that it is completely fine to allow a child to get so upset that they vomit is just OTT!!!

[Dansta]

farmgirl: i can understand the sleep deprivation part. but you'd think an 'expert' would know that a child screaming for 7 hours would = possable averion to sleeping in the cot?

i was thinking about this some more and i remembered when my MG used to meet and one of the mums did the whole "sleep school" thing as her DS wasnt sleeping "twelve hours strait" as 7 months and she said she WATCHED a little girl get put down, then this little girl got so upset she threw up and the nurse came and changed her sheets and put her back down. now repeat twice more before the little girl 'went to sleep' this little girl would have been 18months old... for me i find that people around my age dont seem to understand that its 'normal' for babies not to sleep though (EG 12 hrs) until after a year old. and even then its a stretch. i know my next bubba will be treated as DJ was (and still is!) with sleep. if it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't. or if its co-sleeping with the whole family so be it. they're only little for so long before they want to go to bed on their own...

[nicjay]

Just my thoughts here FWIW...I'm well aware that a sleep deprived mum out there may want to slap me LOL

You go to a dr because there is something wrong right? These sleep drs only exist because people think there is something wrong because their baby won't sleep for long periods at night. IMO until society in general stops perpetuating the myth that babies should sleep for 12 hours straight from 1 month of age then not much will change and parents in a fog of sleeplessness will feel like they are doing something wrong and that their baby has a "problem" when they aren't and he/she in fact doesn't. Too often motherhood is made out to be Huggies and J&J moments, and whilst it is at times, it is damn hard work too. I wish someone had told me that before my 1st, although I probably wouldn't have believed them

I'm a lot more relaxed about it and more self confident 2nd time around, and don't have many anxious moments at all about how badly my bub sleeps, she woke up 5 times last night But having said that, we cosleep to maximise my rest and I can usually catch a bit of shut eye during the day too - don't know what I'd do if I couldn't....

[RhiChiChi]

Just wanted to say I actually went to Torrens house when DD was 10 weeks - they do not do crying it out at all and were actually fantastic for the feeding problems I was having with DD and they were incredibly supportive. I imagine some sleep schools are better than others

I want to say that I too went to a 'sleep school', not so that my DD would sleep for x amount of hrs per night - there were many reasons we went. I agree with babymiracles that some would be better than others. For example my gf went to Tweedle following advice from her SIL. My gf daugther was constipated & was struggling to do # 2. Finally she did when she was in her cot for her night sleep and the poo was hard & the size of a golfball. Her DD was distressed & the nurse(?) told me gf to change her daughter in her cot & then put her back to bed so she knew it was bedtime.... needless to say my gf checked herself out the next day. The one I went to WAS NOT like that at all.

I also agree with Farmgirls post - I think she made a good point. Some parents must be so low, sleep deprived - whatever & are looking for support / a 'solution' and turn to 'experts'. I certainly DO NOT agree with the advice that was given by these 'experts' but I can see why the parents may have thought to follow the advice given

I have even been told by two gf to do CC/CIO & I won't & my DD is nearly 3 and doesn't sleep through the night all the time. I will admit that I have listened on the monitor to my DD cry/winge and waited to see if she will settle - I don't rush to her straight away (not sure if that is considered CIO/CC)

[willow5]

OMG!!! That's horrible makes me want to cry thinking how scared and stressed those babies would have been