control crying

[BellyBelly]

I don't think anyone was criticising Soph? I have done it too, but it didn't work for me. I think in times of exhaustion and desperation we all try things we don't think we will. I also think it's important to see two sides of the story, where it's worked and not worked, no matter what the topic. It's how we all learn

[Jodie259]

I agree with Soph...

If you are anti-CC you have the "comfort parenting" section all to yourself...
But if someone asks for CC help or information - they shouldn't be bombarded with articles and links not to.... especially when other posters can't really give links to help the poster make their own decisions.

I have had a number of people contact me asking for advice on CC since I posted. So there are people who try the 'comfort parenting' approach, and they are becoming depressed and sleep deprived. They just want to try something else.

I respect the people who choose to cuddle their babies every time they wake up. I take my hat of to those women. Particularly if you have a child that has sleeping issues and as a result you become a parent with sleep issues. I tried everything. My husband would sit on a swiss ball cuddling my son for hours every night trying to get him to sleep. We would co-sleep, cuddle, massage, soothing music, bathe.... And in the end, the ONLY technique that worked is what sleep school taught us. It's not to say we don't cuddle our child. And every morning he comes into bed with us after his 8 hours sleep! He still gets massage, and he goes to bed every night after a bath with his soothing music.

Trying to 'scare' new mothers with stories about vomiting children is cruel. Sure, your child may have vomited... but I was at sleep school with 14 other babies - and NONE of them vomited. So I imagine that is not 'normal' when it comes to controlled crying or controlled comforting (there is a difference).

I just think that if a BB member asks about CC - they should be given information about it (not against it). If they ask for information about comfort parenting then they should be given information about that. The comfort parents would not appreciate anti-CP links pasted all over their posts... and would be told so by the administrators!

At the end of the day, CC is not advisable for babies less than 6 months. But there are techniques that you can learn that will help your baby to rest and to learn the tired signs before they become overtired. I never realised how important it was that my child sleep more during the day so that he was more relaxed at night. And sleep school showed us how to get my child to sleep for 1.5-2 hours each nap (for 2-3 naps each day) which I was never able to achieve at home by myself.

And all the books in the world are of no use if you are so sleep deprived that you don't have the energy to read your mail.

I just think that if you don't believe in CC - then you should refrain from posting in a topic that asks for CC help. And vice versa if someone was to ask for comfort parenting help. I once posted in a comfort parenting post (not realising it was CP section) - about my sleep school experience, and I was told quick smart that it was the CP section and that is what the topic was about. So maybe the "other side" should be given the same respect?

I take my hats off to comfort parents. I really do. I wish that my child had responded to comfort techniques. And believe me - I TRIED !!! He is definately not short on love and attention. But he need to "learn" to sleep.

[Visitor9]

2 weeks ago I was at my wits end with Eliza we were constantly up many times throu the night which originally was quick fixed with a feed to wanting to play and not sleep. We then moved on to falling asleep on the couch with either DH or myself until she figured that one out and never fell asleep till 10 -11 pm. So I finally had to give her a few boundries, it was a sort of controlled crying with having a 21 months under her belt she knows what buttons work with mum and dad. I can determine Elizas cries I know when she is pain or has vomited but by going back into her room every few minutes only escalated the problem.
We now can have cuddles and stories before bed time and she knows that she is in bed to sleep and we will be there in the morning...but it has been a long journey and thankfully we only did one night of it before she figured it out, if it was longer I'm sure I would of needed some help somehow.So if you think it is right for you get some information or someone to support you in your decision cause there is nothing harder in the world to let your baby cry

Bec

[BellyBelly]

Jodie,

Not only is BellyBelly a gentle parenting website and currently the #6 family website in Australia (so what I am doing people are obviously liking) but being in the position that I am, running this website, I see it as my duty to give mothers information on both sides of the fence, and accurate information at that. 800 studies for goodness sakes. I absolutely would not like someone not to tell me something in fear of offending me, especially when it could have such health effects as this or anything else. This woman posted asking for advice, saying she was getting pressure from family, but she was happy doing what she was doing, you are only promoting what she doesn't like doing.

I think the problem here is that people feel attacked or guilty for their choices, and I shouldn't need to censor myself for the sake of that. People have a right to know, and if it stirs up emotions in some then that can't be helped. I am sure there are also many people out there who are finding this great information and it will help them make their own decisions. My daughter was extremely unsettled for over two years and has an anxiety problem which explains this, but I got through it. Its like labour, with good support and resources, women can do anything. So just giving them one answer is not what I like to do because there is never one way to do anything.

Its unfortunate that you dont like what I am posting because its not what you do, but I am not attacking you or your choices. I am only providing information, as you did, as to what is involved with CC. Because it is possible it wont work for someone with only 8% of mums finding it to work. We're all entitled to our opinions, so if anyone wants to dispute anything I say then I don't mind, that's what this is all about. If one person posts questioning something, then there are probably others and I am more than happy to explain myself.

Nothing is stopping anyone from joining pro-CC forums out there, BubHub have one.

[christy]

I'm sorry Jodie if my post offended you, but Maggie asked:

Hi

Has anyone done controlled crying to help babies settle, and if so ,a t what age did they start and how did it go

DS will only sleep if fed to sleep or rocked, i dont mind this, but family are saying it will cause me grief in the long run, and to do controlled crying

I can never settle him in his cot he becomes hysterical and i hate that, so that is why i feed to sleep or rock which does not take to long

any ideas? thanks

And I gave my experience with CC. That is the information I have, as that is what happened with me. I may not have given a fantastic example of the journey that sleep has been in our house, but needless to say I wanted to share that CC can not be all other people say it can be. Also that we had a negative experience with it. We also had a negative experience with co-sleeping and a negative experience with rocking to sleep. We have found what works best for Matilda and it changes every few months of her life.

Please don't thing that you are under attack for advocating CC. Its just that there are studies and research that does not condone using CC for children under 6 months. Have a read of the link that Kate provided (thats the article I was talking about before).

So in answer to Maggie's question of how our experience went & when to start. Our experience was awful and caused many issues for both Matilda & myself when we were at a sleep school. And for when as to the article and even sleep school's advice, 6 months.

[shellbell3]

I think too with CC it should be based on the level of the child crying not the time they are left before you go back in or anything like that. If they are just having a grizzle or a cry that doesn't sound upset its not really a problem but if they are getting really upset i would immediately go back in regardless.
At the moment I still feed or rock my DD to sleep but down the track I'm not sure yet what we will do if we need something, there are many options around many books offering different approaches. I find it useful to read all the dfferent opinions so in the future I will have some information and can weed out the ones I think may be useful or not. But the basis will be whether I feel comfortable doing something and that it feels right not because someone told me this is the way I should do something.

[maggie]

thanks guys so much for the feedbaclk and i appreciate your repsonses

DS is only 14weeks so i realise that he is to YOUNG for the CC anyhow, but i did take in all your responses and respect them.

I just WISH that i could put DS in his cot and he would settle, instead of feed to sleep, or rock to sleep as he is not learning, but i am praying that he will get better.. i am going to look at going to a sleep school in melb when he is a little older.. thanks again..

[Beckibee]

*cringes* I really hate when topics take a direction which ends up causing some posters/members to feel as though they're being attacked. I've been there, as I'm sure have many others.

I have made it no secret that I have CC with Maddy in the past, nor do I feel guilty or less of a mother in myself for choosing this path of parenting. Kelly, I don't think that Jodie's posts were necessarily directed towards you, nor were Sophs. (Although I'm not either poster, so I can't really know what they're feeling)

I guess it's just as easy to read my original post earlier on in this topic and see it as being totally pro-CC; as it is to read someone's post who is anti-CC and feel as though they're putting the parenting style down.

To be honest, when I read this thread again last night, I had the same reaction as both Soph and Jodie. I'm not sure about either of these girls, but I did not feel badly because I feel 'guilty'. I read some of the posts, and I honestly believe that there are very negative opinions towards CC. It is possible to answer the OP with 'here's our story and why it did/didn't work for me' or 'choose what's best for your family and don't let anyone else tell you what do'. Many of the ladies have done exactly this, for example Christy mentioned she has tried it and how it didn't work for Matilda.

What got me upset a few times is that the OP came in here and queried CC and discussed they're child's sleeping issues & the pressure on her from family & friends. To me it appeared that she was seeking information & support. When I read through some of the responses I saw plenty of people encouraging her to make informed choices & giving examples of their own experiences. What I also read was anti-CC remarks and a few scary stories. I'm not saying those stories aren't true, I just felt it created an air or atmostphere of 'this is what happens when you CC' when it's possibly the case in SOME situations.

This is a gentle parenting forum and Kelly, please don't feel I'm in any way attacking it. I totally respect that, but I just feel that sometimes people feel so strongly in their own opinions and experiences, that they forget how negative and forceful their posts can be towards others.

[Astrid]

What I also read was anti-CC remarks and a few scary stories. I'm not saying those stories aren't true, I just felt it created an air or atmostphere of 'this is what happens when you CC' when it's possibly the case in SOME situations.

I don't see a problem with this, both the good and the bad need to known in order to make a balanced judgement on what is best to do any situation. This applies not only to CC, but also to co-sleeping, when to start solids, when to turn the car seat around etc.

[*Efjay*]

The story I posted was an example of Parents who didn't follow any professional advice & just gave it a whirl, how they thought it was meant to work. The point of my story was the not once was the child checked on.
From the brief details Jodie has given about her expereince with CC, it sounds more to me like a controlled comforting. I think many babies can be settled with a controlled level of comfort if they are cought early by watching the tired signs.
I feed my kids to sleep. But by no means am I standing here at 2 am with my eye balls hangnig out. It just works for me. My babies fall to sleep reasonably fast this way. Yeah I have a few off nights here & there but still nothing that is going to put me into a state of PND.
I think the best technique is that described by RoryRory. And that was what ever works at the time!

Just on the remark made about those with the abilty to post links etc. You can always copy & paste the information you would like others to see. Mind you I woudln't imagine there would be a hell of alot out there that gives you the horror stories of NOT using CC.

[Jodie259]

Okay...
I just want to clarify myself:
* I don't condone or advocate CC for babies under 6 months
* I don't believe you should leave babies crying - and I was not taught to do that at sleep school. I think it is called Controlled Comforting - and there is a difference.
* and if controlled crying works for some people - then I respect that too.
* I respect and admire the mothers that comfort parent. But I also realise that those techniques don't work for all people; and mother & baby can suffer if something isn't working.
* I am not attacking anyones choices. I don't disagree with the comfort parenting techniques. But I am open-minded enough to acknowledge that different techniques work for different people.

Further to this:
* there are statistics on BOTH sides of the debate. No-one is right or wrong. People just have different opinions on what works for THEIR baby. And everyone's opinion should be respected.
* Kelly: you say it's your duty to give information on both sides of the fence... but you're only giving information/links about your negative CC experience... so I don't see that as "both sides". As the owner of this forum, some mothers may feel scared to oppose your way of thinking.
* I just think it's a little unfair that anti-CC links are able to be posted (ie: anti-CC articles that have been posted within BB).... when some information about CC is probably not going to be allowed (Kelly: if I allowed to provide a link please let me know).
* and as pointed out above maggie asked about Controlled Crying - not comfort parenting.

* Maggie posted in the General Parenting section. If she was after Comfort Parenting advice - there is a whole section that she could have sought advice.

As I have said over and over.... I am not against comfort parenting. I think it's wonderful. I have co-slept with my son since his birth and will continue to do so. I am a SAHM, and I don't employ nannies to take care of my child. But some aspects of comfort parenting don't work for everyone. I just feel that everyone should be respected. If someone askes for advice about CC in the general area then they shouldn't be pressured to think they are bad for even considering it.... by providing all the negative stories about it.

I realise Belly Belly is Kelly's website - and she/you are pro-comfort parenting. But it would be nice if all mothers were welcome on this forum. It would be nice that if people asked for information about controlled crying they could get some positive information about it.

The same with breast feeding. That is another whole subject within itself. But bottle feeding mothers seem to be condemned to hell, and that upsets me so much. I tried so hard to breast feed my baby. I bought 4 breast pumps, I went to lactation clinics, I tried everything. But there was just no milk, and my baby was losing huge amounts of weight as a result of everyone pushing "breast is best". It's common knowledge that breast milk is best. There is no denying that at all. And I can't imagine too many women who would chose to give their baby anything but the best they can offer. But if you have no milk (probably due to lack of sleep) - then you should not feel guilty about it. I don't want to open a whole debate about breast/bottle feeding. I just want to use that as an example of how some mothers are made to feel really uncomfortable by the comments on this forum.

Having said that... this is a wonderful forum, and I have got tons of useful information and made some wonderful friends from this forum. I think that this is one of the best baby forums on the web. I just think that everyone's parenting techniques should be respeceted and no mother should be condemned or made to feel uncomfortable for what they choose to do with their own child.

I haven't been offended by anyone (I've got really tough skin)... and I never post anything with the intention of offending others. I just want to see information provided without negativity.

[*Efjay*]

As Kelly has said previously though (on many an occasion & topic) Belly belly is about GENTLE parenting. I don't think that (not meaning you or anyone who has actually posted in this topic) someone who is going to argue the point about harsher methods of parenting should be welcomed with open arms. There are plenty of parenting forums that can be used. This one is for gentle parenting.

[BellyBelly]

I think there are far too many sites out there already that are just 'free for all' in terms of not having a focus, and it's the reason I started my own site, because I was sick of the same old thing. I'm passionate about this stuff, I live and breathe it hence I couldn't NOT be involved in my own forums. Many people have said to me it's the reason they love BB, because they feel they are becoming more knowledgable, informed and empowered compared to other sites.

Believe it or not there are other websites more hard core than this one! It's a great balance between mainstream and what you would call alternative. It's also a very important business rule - you don't change anything that works. Big mistake.

Like some previous posts about various topics in here, it's great to make an informed decision, no matter what you choose. If you choose to bottlefeed over breastfeed, then good-o, you have made an informed decision. But you have to get informed first. Once you have both sides of the story you can make an informed decision. If the original poster (sorry to speak about you in third person!) was to come back in here (which she already has!) and say, 'I have weighed up both options and 'xxx' is my decision', then I would say, great stuff, well done on making a decision for YOU! Matter over.

But it's perfectly okay for people who are asking to be presented with information from both sides (again, especially when she was happy with what she was already doing and didn't really say she wanted to change). Yes the site has a gentle bias, as Fiona said, it's because it is designed to be a gentle/no cry solutions parenting site. And I am really proud as a result to see more and more women wanting Doulas, VBACs, determined to breastfeed next time, wearing their babies... I know BB has helped them. I even support women at birth and sometimes they have caesars - and that doesn't bother me because I know they had best intentions or gave it their best shot and they had both sides of information.

Freedom of information should rule, then support given with that decision. It's unfair that someone has come in here for support, has been given various information and this has turned into a huge thing for someone else when the intention was never to attack anyone or judge anyone - maybe ask yourself why you feel judged? I have done CC and I certainly don't feel judged. I'm saying it again, if it works for you - GREAT! It's wonderful that it has helped you immensely.

Why can't we all just give our 5c worth based on information and our own experiences, and leave innocent people seeking help to make their own decisions?

[Soph]

Nah Kelly no one was criticising me. You know I TOTALLY love this site and just wanted to be open about my experiences. As others have said, informed choice is the best I reckon and you take the info and use it how you want. Every one of us is different and so are our children, we can learn together and ignore what we don't want to use - that's what is so great about posting here. I just wanted to post about my positive experience with CC for others benefit without feeling 'guilty' about using that method....ahhhh it always is a can of worms!

[BellyBelly]

Go for it, post your experiences, I really have no problems with anyone posting positive and negative experiences on any topic! No matter what forum you go to you will have strongly passionate people about one thing or the other, if you went to a Holden car lovers forum and posted about your Ford and how much you love your Ford you'd get lots of hoo-ha going on! It's all the fun of life.

But at the same time, everyone else is allowed to post theirs too, including links from the BellyBelly website and articles related to, which can help others make their own decisions. There is no wrong or right answer here, only heaps of resources which can help others make up their own mind. We need to take responsibility for our own decisions based on our own judgment and research, so what people post shouldn't matter - it's all pieces of the bigger picture.

So, confirming that every single person can post whatever they like and whatever their experiences are, because no-one will be attacked, there will only be an exchange of information and no-one saying they are a crap mum.

Anyways, I better get organised to head out the door when hubby arrives... birth time.

[*Efjay*]

OMG Tulip! What kind of Health professional suggests dosing your kid up just to get into a sleeping pattern! Gees I would be reporting her!

[julesy]

It sounds crazy, but an alternative to CC is to put bubs into cot when they are settled, drowsy...but definitely awake. We did this, and our girl learned to put herself to sleep, even if she woke after 20 minutes (she had reflux and I think she would get heartburn). We started at about 4 weeks! We would then kiss her on the forehead, leave the room and listen just outside the door or with the baby monitor. If after 5 minutes she was grizzling or starting to get distressed, we would go in, give her cuddles for about 5 minutes (or until she was settled), then put her back in the cot awake but drowsy.

After 3 or 4 days, she started to sleep for longer (rather than 20 minute cat naps) and at 8 weeks started sleeping through the night. She also goes down well for her grandma, and is so happy and smiley when she is awake due to her quality of sleep, I'm convinced we did the right thing.

If she ever started crying or became distressed (like an increase in pitch in her voice), we always went to her). We didn't want her to think that we would not be there for her if she ever needed us...

All babies are different too though, and I think even a baby 1 week or 8 weeks old has a distinct personality, and you should consider that too.

Hope this helps!

[nikbrad]

Mackenzie was feed or rocked to sleep up until she was about 12 months old. I don't think created any problems. We did try controlled crying a few times but it just stressed us all out so abandoned that one fairly quickly. She is now 2.5 years old, sleeps in a bed and stays there most nights no problem. We do have the odd night where she feels shes had enough sleep and jumps out of bed (ususally within half an hour of going to bed) but we just put her back in and shes fine. She still wakes thru the night, sometimes I have to jump into bed with her but other nights she just needs a rub on the back and she goes back to sleep. Every child is different and the best advice i got was from my mum who told me you can't spoil them and they are so little for such a short time just enjoy the cuddles. It's up to you to do what you feel comfortable with and if its feeding and rocking to sleep so be it.