Pitbulls

[loulabelle]

What a difficult situation. Hugs.

First thing I think you need to find out is if you are even allowed to be keeping such a dog. Many places dont allow pitbulls or have strict guidelines around owning them. do you know if he's pure bred? the fact that the people selling him described him as a staffy has me worried. he has been bred illegally and its possible that they have bred a dog that is illegal to breed full stop.

You need to find out what the law in your area is. And if you are allowed to keep him, what conditions is there.

as heartbreaking as it would be, you might find you have to surrender him anyway.

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Growing up i always had pets, dogs and cats. Us kids were never really supervised and none of us were ever attacked. The only time me and my brother got attacked by our dog was by a dog that had previously been abused from a puppy to about 2yrs old. My mum got him and tried to rehabilitate him otherwise he would be put down. I took him for a walk one day and i don't know what i did but he ended up jumping up on me and attacking my hands. A seperate day he was in the backyard with my brother who was playing and ran up to him and full on attacked him, the hands, arms and face we had to take him to the emergency it was then my mum chose to get him put down. I wasn't as badly hurt as my brother but i was very hesitant to go near him.

Anyways... getting off track. No i personally don't think you should get rid of your dog, my uncle has 2 pure bred pittys and they have never hurt anyone and they are surrounded by children all of the time. We had a bull terrier for a few years everyone tried to say they are aggressive, but our ally girl was beautiful she never hurt us, she was half deaf then ended up completely deaf and she loved us all so much, such a loyal dog then someone stole her out of our backyard and used her for dog fighting..

Any dog has the potential to attack and be aggressive you cannot pin it on one particular breed. The upbringing of the dog plays a huge part, if the dog is taught how to be aggressive it will be there. I think the major issue with pitbulls is IF they attack the outcome isnt nice.

[~StarBright~]

I have owned a red nose pitbull x kelpie called Dutchie. She was a weird dog!!! She was so sweet and calm maybe 25% of the time, (when she woke up and just before she went to sleep she was placid as!!) and then she was a loony dog the other 75% of the time!! She would have frenzies where she would just run in circles and back and forth until she was worn out!

She was incredibly smart. We lived on a property with cattle. She got out of the yard one day (jumped the six ft fence) and got into the cattle yard. She rounded them up and actually seperated the cows that had white patches from the ones that didnt and herded them in a corner. We thought it was incredible how much the kelpie in her was coming out!!

Then she got out again. This time she started biting at the heels of the cattle. Not so funny. Higher fence and we were much more concious of her escaping.

She broke off her chain, jumped the new and improved higher fence and ripped one of the cows eyes out. She went from kelpie to pitty very quickly.

This all happened over about a week. Once she got in there and got a taste for her power (BLOOD), she was just a different dog. We were going to get her put down, but the owner of the property took care of that for us once he saw his cow (who also had to be shot) It was weird because we had been living there for about 6 months and until that first day she showed no interest what so ever in the cattle. Then one day she just got obsessed and that was it.

I don't know what you will take from this... I know our dog was a cross breed, which makes a huge difference. She was never encouraged to be a fighter. We never encouraged her to do anything like that. She was socialized with people and other dogs. She was smart. She was a kind dog to start with. But she changed. We did notice the change in her- it is something you can tell, and I would just say to look out for it in your dog. And if you do notice ANY kind of behavioural changes then its time to say bye bye to doggy. And it may have been the kelpie in our girl, or not, but they CAN and WILL escape from something you would think was secure!!!!!! (not just for your own kid's sake, but for other people)

Even before the cow incident, I never would have trusted Dutchie with kids. I wasn't even thinking about kids at that stage in my life, but I already knew if it happened she was gone!! You know your dog, and there is alot to trusting your own instincts when it comes to your dog... I now have a neopolitan mastiff and roman nosed bull terrrior who are inside dogs and 100% part of my kids lives. I trust them. But I didnt trust Dutchie.

I think you should be wary and extreamly cautious... and if you notice any changes in your dogs personality then its time to get rid of the dog

[MsKara]

Reet the decision should be solely you and your DH's as only you know this dog.
It's a myth that Pitbull's (and Staffy's) have lock jaw. They have strong jaws and because of their breeding, generally don't want to let go when they "lock on", but there's nothing physically stopping them from letting go.
I was raised with Staffies and Jack Russells, and was taught how to interact with dogs, both our own dogs and other people's. We have a staffy now, and have taught her her 'boundary' around H, ie she's allowed a sniff, she's not allowed on his rug etc. We will teach H that dogs can be dangerous and that we need to be careful around them, even when they seem friendly and regardless of their breed.
Perhaps you should wait and see how you feel after your bub is born as your views may change. I don't feel that you should get rid of your dog just because it's a pitbull. You need to do what you feel is right.

[briggsy's girl]

i don't think the argument that it's about how an animal is raised has any weight - we hand raised our dogs - from six days old - after their mother died. they were used to being handled by kids as young as 9months - so poked, prodded, pulled at - whatever. 4 of the litter were fantastic with kids - 3 - no way. they were snappy, and, once DD arrived and we moved to a house where we couldn't have her and them in completely seperate contained yards, we had to get rid of them - for the simple fact that they MIGHT turn - at some unknown future trigger

the fact these dogs were advertised as something they aren't sends up MASSIVE warning lights for me. the fact that pitbulls are among the breeds that do have the locking jaw sends up massive warning signals for me. the fact that that they have been genetically bred, generation after generation, to become killers, scares the crap out of me. They are a ball of muscle. they have the instinct to attack and to kill. they are not an animal you can simply yell at to stop. they are not an animal you can hit once and have them let go. when they attack, they attack to KILL.

Personally, i'd be getting rid of the dog. yes, he may be the most gorgeous natured animal. he may seem completely harmless. but, like has been said by most PP's - ANY animal can turn - and unfortunately, the results when a pit bull turns are, in general, a hell of a lot worse than when a lot of other breeds attack. yes, i've seen mauling deaths from Alsatians and other breeds, but, far more often, it's pitbulls. it's not a risk i'd be prepared to take for the sake of my child and my neighbours/friends.

maybe i'm jaded from being bitten by a dog as a kid, but i don't have 100% faith in ANY animal. they are instinctual creatures. it seems somewhat - i dunno - shortsighted to put faith in an animal behaving how we THINK they should, as opposed to how they instinctually feel...

[KitFaerie]

I know this isn't what you want, or expected to hear, but I think the thing is that if a pitbull attacks someone, the potential is that they could die from it. We hear about deaths from pitbull attacks every couple of years, it's a real risk, and the owners are usually surprised that their dog did that. I have two cats, and there is always the potential they will attack my son, however, he won't die from it. So, if it was me, I would accept that there was a risk, and the potential for some horrific consequences, and then decide where to go to from there (muzzled sometimes, training, giant fence etc). I would also keep in mind that it's often not the owner's family that these dogs attack. Hopefully being aware of the potential will cut down a lot of the risks.

[nothing2lose]

Personally I would never have a pit bull (or any other dangerous breed). Not just due to the risk to my own family, but also to the risk they pose to the general community (including other animals).

I wouldn't keep a loaded gun in the house either.

I agree with the posts about supervision being vitally important. But just because a child is being supervised doesn't mean an attack won't happen, as was tragically seen in the death of the little one in Melbourne.

And for those who say they know their dogs and it wouldn't happen, well, we all snap at times. When a dangerous dog snaps the consequences can be devastating.

[Freya]

I will say that I would rehome the dog or put it down.


The reason why pitbulls seem to be the main dog for maulings is because they are bred for hunting and fighting (and hunting is different to retrieving just an FYI). I know alot of people say "Oh but my pitty is such a big sookie" but lets face facts, they are not MEANT to be lapdogs. Nature VS nuture can only go so far, in the end genetic instinct will take over when it comes down to it. The fact that you bought it from less than reputable breeders who lied about their breed (and I know this happens all the time now) scares me even more.

But I am a huge advocate for stamping out backyard breeding and even cross breeding. This is where all the current problems with dog maulings and dog breeding comes from. Breeding is supposed to be done to better the breed, not for funsies or because you can sell something with a cutesy name like "****apoo".

Yes any dog is capable of mauling or biting. But some breeds are more risky than others. I would never own a hunting dog or a dog primarily used for fighting or a working dog having kids in my home OR even just in suburbia in general. Bored dogs become nuisances. Bored hunting dogs become vicious nuisances.

Ive been on the receiving end of a vicious pitbull and while I escaped injury (and my lab's did too) it was the single most terrifying moment of my life. An angry pitbull in my yard going at my dogs through our fence, and let me tell you I had never ever seen my lab's even so much as growl but the ferociousness of their reaction to the pitbull made me understand just how dangerous pitbulls are that even placid dogs like our labs could get so worked up over it, and this pitbull was being walked OFF LEASH by his owner because he eventually disappeared when his owner spent 5min calling him. I was heavily pregnant and just stepped outside to hop in the car to go to an appointment. Ive never run so fast for the door in my life. That moment solidified my belief that the breed should be eradicated completely. That dog was someone's "loving" family pet!


(Just a sidenote, we have owned labradors and currently own an aussie bulldog. I would never leave my kids alone with either of them, but especially not our labradors and only because if they did bite, even in a non-vicious manner, I would never be able to shift their weight. Our bulldog, whilst heavy, would be a bit easier to shift. And I can say she is the biggest wuss I have ever met but I still dont underestimate her. Pitbulls have the kill instinct stemming from the fighting aspect of the breed which makes it pretty much impossible to detach them without killing them. Could you kill your dog without hesitation if she latched onto your child? I know I could. Any dog for that matter. But Im not that attached to my dog that I would hesitate.)

[peanutter]

personally, unfortunately, I think there is always a risk.

it's only a risk - my best friend grew up with German Shepherds and Alsatians and Pit Bulls and another friend grew up with Rotweilers and they're all fine - but there are a significant number of cases where children have been bitten, knocked down, mauled, and yes, killed, from these types of dogs.

for this reason, we have smaller dogs, and they are outside pets, and even though we have raised them well and they have never bitten anyone and rarely jump on you etc, DS will not be allowed to play with them unsupervised until he's much, much older, and there's no way knows that we would let them run around the house unsupervised, and don't let other children play with them unsupervised - because there is a slim but real risk.

they're only about 12kg each, but one is part terrier, and so there is the potential for harm - even though I'm sure they would never hurt a fly, you just can never be sure and I'd feel terrible if something did happen...

while I would love to say that I believed that a dog brought up right would never hurt anyone, unfortunately time after time you hear stories about animals (and people...) doing things completely out of character and hurting people, sometimes completely without provocation.

so although I know it wouldn't necessarily end in tears, and while it's much more likely that an injury will happen from skateboarding, being in a car or falling out of a tree, this little black duck has reservations about breeds which have the propensity to do severe damage.

I hope you and your DH though can talk about it and make a decision which works for your own family, as it is a very personal choice.

[Heaven]

Get rid of the dog.

[Miss.September]

I'd be really really concerned. It isn't the owners that makes the dog aggressive. It's the dog.

I've said it here before, we bought an eight week old male golden spoodle (c o c ker spaniel x poodle). Two days after we brought him home, we gave him a pigs ear and while he was eating it, my step brother got too close and the pup attacked him. I was pretty chilled out by it, knowing that some pups do this, fighting for the food in the pack, etc. It was a matter of training him and teaching him that his food was his, and he didn't need to compete for it anymore.

How wrong I was.

Two behaviourilists, vet visits, sedatives, changes of diet, severe training, severe punishment, early to be desexed and plenty of love and affection and our puppy got worse. He would attack if he was tired. Attack if there was a hint of food around. Attack when he'd had enough of playing. When we were living in a one room bungalow, he would sneak up onto our bed at night - if I moved, he would go nuts. We ended up with a brilliantly trained dog, who was super socialised (he lived with other various dogs for most of his short life as we moved around), who was vicious. And it had nothing to do with us. Finally, he bit DH and snapped his fingernail in half, he bit my mum and he bit me and didn't let go. I had to wrench his jaw open with my other hand and basically run. He got to the point where he was doing it with no triggers - no food present, no tiredness. If he had been a bigger dog, we would have been in all sorts of trouble. We put him to sleep. He was 21 months old.

Having been through all of this (plus my mum and her golden retriever being attacked by a neighbours border collie x - mum ended up in hospital and the golden retriever only escaped with her life because she was long haired), I am very cautious with dogs. I was careful, but I didn't realise how relaxed I was with dogs until we went through everything with our spoodle. We have two dogs now, and boy, were we paranoid when they arrived. They are the most wonderful, placid dogs ever - but I still wouldn't leave DD with them unsupervised. Ever.

Circumstances of dogs can change. You won't be spending as much time with your dog as baby gets older. Will that affect him? I knew a girl who had two male staffies - a dog moved in next door and got them frustrated, and they started to fight with each other, nasty, vicious fights. They'd been together as best buddies for ten years! What can change in your dog's life that could change his behaviour? Is a toddler who will be keen to climb on the dog, grab his tail and pull his ears going to upset him? Is that a risk you want to take? What if bubs puts her hand in the food bowl while he's eating? I'm not trying to be harsh, sorry if it's coming across like that, but these are the things you need to figure out. We've heard too many stories of people's dogs attacking someone, and then the owners saying how kind and placid the dog normally was. Any dog is capable of it. If you decide to rehome him, now's a fantastic opportunity to do it. He's nice, placid and gentle. If you decide to keep him, then maybe talk to a behaviour specialist. Put him through some things that your toddler will. It's so heartbreaking, I know, and there is no easy decision.

[Raupe]

Tough call. I just wanted to say, if you DO decide to keep him maybe look into getting a muzzle for him. In some European countries it is law to put a muzzle on any fighting dog when you are out and about or when they are left alone in the yard. I think this would be a sensible thing to do. That way if he does get out there is at least *some* protection. (Although even muzzles aren't 100% safe). Just make sure it is professionally fitted.

Good luck with your decision.

[Beach Mama]

Perhaps I am a crap parent then, because I left my kids alone with my dog all the time. It is incredibly impractical to remove the dog or children from the room every time I left. As much as everyone says never to leave kids and dogs unsupervised ever, I am sure it is done a lot more than people will admit to.

You are definitely not a crap parent hun, and nobody is saying that you are, however, as a parent - you take a risk. You know something could happen, if you leave them, but you weigh everything up for your circs and go from there. A bit OT, I have been recently ducking out to get the kids clothes while they are in the bath. 30 seconds max usually but as DH recently reminded me, that is all it takes so I have stopped doing it.

Doesn't make me a crap parent for doing it because I knew the risks (and would get them to yell out to me while I did it ) but I weighed it all up - did it for a while and then decided not to. Hope TMS~ trying to say, not very eloquently that in all these cases you weigh up the risk and decide what you feel comfortable with. xoxoxox

[krysalyss]

I have sent you a pm with an interesting link. I have done a lot of work with animals of many species and I would have to question a lot of the knee jerk responses that come after a tragic event like this. Ultimately the general public are not the right people to ask. If you are really concerned go and see a professional dog behaviourist (look up the delta society website for a qualified one - don't just go to a dog obedience trainer). They will be able to give you some advice based on your personal circumstances and help you to provide the right environment that will provide some protection against the possibility of bites.

[Saffy]

I have a problem with the 'supervise at all times' bit as well because as was proven in the recent tragic case ( there was an adult present), you may be there supervising, but will you actually be able to stop an attack when its happening?? Without putting yourself in danger of being mauled as well?

Reet- I am totally understanding how hard this must be, i don't have dogs but love animals, and its such a hard one.

I would probably go with being safe and get rid of the dog as hard as it would be. There is no such thing as being 100% sure the dog wouldn't snap suddenly. You have to put the safety of your child first.

[mrscricket]

It is such a hard question.. I would be devastated to have to get rid of any of the animals I have ever had so that in itself would be awful. But I have seen a pitbull attack - on a horse - and it truely was the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. This was a random dog so I am not sure how it was raised or anything, but the injuries to the horse resulted in it being put down so I would hate to imagine if it had been a baby/child/adult.

Whatever decision you make - I guess it's one you need to be at peace with. If you keep the dog, you need to be 'comfortable' (cannot think of another word - I know this is not the right one though) with the fact that something could happen. If it is to your child or someone elses. Because I am thinking ahead in years to when your little one has friends over to play etc.


** Brilliant advice Krysalyss

[Jennifer13]

This was on ninemsn this morning:

The Nationals deputy leader Peter Walsh said the government is considering amending the Crimes Act to crack down on the owners of dangerous dogs that kill people.

He said owners should be held responsible for their dogs' actions, similar to people charged with culpable driving, he said.

"These types of dogs have lost their right to exist in Victoria," Mr Walsh told reporters on Thursday.

He was speaking after an American pit bull mastiff cross mauled a four-year-old girl to death in Melbourne on Wednesday.

Mr Walsh said the government would remove the current amnesty in place for people to register their unregistered dangerous dogs.

"Those dogs in future will be able to be seized by local government and destroyed because they will be unregistered," he said.

A 'dob in a dangerous dog' anonymous hotline would be set up so people who have dangerous dogs in their neighbourhood can report them.

Mr Walsh said the government would allocate funds to local councils to help them investigate dogs reported to the hotline.

The Victorian government introduced laws in 2005 requiring all pit bulls and other restricted breeds to be desexed, effectively breeding them out of existence.

The restricted dog breeds include pit bulls, Japanese tosas, Argentinian fighting dogs and Brazilian fighting dogs.

A dangerous dogs register to track restricted breeds was introduced in 2006.

Registered dogs must be desexed, microchipped, have a safe enclosure and be muzzled and on a lead when in public, Mr Walsh said.

Dog owners should be culpable: Vic govt

Actually, the breeder you brought your dog from is already breaking the law (breeding and not desexing their dogs) and since you know he is a pit bull (cross or pure) you should have him registered if you live in Vic, plus all the other things listed in here. From your POV, if you don't and he did bite someone you would be doubly in trouble. He must be desexed at the least and it is possible things could be ramped up.

Personally, I would rather be responsible for my dog now, than live with the knowledge that at any time someone could force you to have him put down with no warning. You can't rehome him either, that doesn't fix the issue at all. And I'd be reporting the breeder.

I agree with PPs, all dogs can bite. It is the damage that is likely to be inflicted that is the problem, not the issue of biting. Cats scratch and bite, dogs bite, our chickens peck, even the fish have a nibble! The possums that climb our trees can scratch and bite too. But most of these animals are likely to inflict serious injury or death. You cannot guarantee your pit bull dog can never escape your yard, or get away from you while being walked, no matter how aware you are. You cannot guarantee your dog will not ever be alone with a child (yours or someone else's) at some point in its life. It may even be only defending itself against someone else's actions.

The decision about keeping a pit bull may very well be taken out of your hands anyway.

[skybie]

The concerning thing with pitties and dogs like that is their jaw, when they lock on, they lock on really well. tey arent the biggest of dogs, but they are very very strong.
Personally i wouldnt keep it, but thats just me. i also wouldnt visit if the dog was inside, or let my kids play outside with it if it were out.
We have a teeny tiny little little jack x chiwawa (spelt wrong i know) and she is so lazy and gently with the girls, but even then, theres no way in hell id let them play unsupervised, and im alway vigilant with new children going into the backyard to play. i make her sit by my feet. shes used to my girls, but another child might do something different that she doesnt like, or gets a fright from. i'd never forgive myself if she went anyone\

In purchasing a pit bull you have supported an illegal business. i highly reccomend u get the dog desexed asap, if you're found with an undesexed pit bull u can cop major finds as theyre trying to stop the breed from being in autralia

Found this on wiki, specific to qld
A person who owns a "restricted" dog must:

keep the dog within a child-proof enclosure
display warning signs at the entrance to the property where the dog is located
muzzle the dog in public and have it under effective control at all times
ensure the dog is spay/neutered, wearing a collar and a prescribed tag, and is microchipped