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Thread: Down Syndrome marker found at 30 wk scan

  1. #19

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    As they found a marker on the baby for downs they should do the FISH test and you should get the results back within 24-48hrs but that's not conculsive it takes 2 weeks to get the full results. But you will have a rough idea in 48hrs.


  2. #20

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    what is a FISH test?

  3. #21

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    I don't know what FISH stands for but the genetic counsellor told me what they do to get the result so quickly. They take a slide paint it in some red stuff and place a cell on it if it splits in two everything is okay but if it splits in to 3 they keep on testing if it's 3 it means there is a problem. But it's not as accurate as them waiting for the cells to split on there own that's why it takes 2 weeks. Also the longer test checks for all the Trimosy not just trimosy21.

    Is there anyone in genetics that you can talk too about this all ? I know you are seeing your OB on Thursday but it could still nice to talk to someone that deals with this all the time. I only have the number for the one in WA.

    HTH

  4. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Vernon
    This is something that those who advocate ultrasounds often fail to consider. What are the parents supposed to do when something is found? In a few cases, things can be handled surgically in-utero. In the vast vast majority of cases, nothing can be done until the baby is born and then if it is a genetic issue, than little can be done.

    Many times, the so-called 'problem' is found to be non-existent at birth. It might have been an 'artefact' from the ultrasound scan. It may have been operator error. But how much worry and anxiety have parents gone through? Often pregnancy and birth are worrying enough, without being concerned about 'phantom problems" that can't be solved. How many babies have been aborted because of false positives?

    I am all for appropriate birth technology, but it seems to me that as a society we have adopted ultrasound as the "wonder technology" without considering some of the downsides it has. What are parents looking for when they seek an ultrasound? Reassurance? The perfect baby? The perfect birth? Unfortunately, ultrasound cannot give us that. It cannot even give reassurance that everything is OK. The error rates for ultrasound are unacceptably hgh.

    Ultrasound can be useful for a very small number of obstetric problems. As a mass screening device it is a failure, simply because the high number of false positives and false negatives it produces. Given the dire needs of our health system, and the fact that ultrasound consumes a huge amount of diagnostic resources, one has to question its routine use.

    A few thoughts.

    Cheers

    David
    Hi David

    I felt i had to respond to your post here, to be honest i don't understand your viewpoint either but thats not something to be debated here.

    I would just like to say that from the viewpoint of an expectant mother, one who is carrying a baby around inside it, feeling it grow and move, bonding with it, Ultrasound is great, for many reasons, it can give us reassurance, just to see the heart beat, 2 arms, 2 legs and all the rest. It can give us the belief that our babies are growing and developing properly, it can also give us things to worry about which we can then use to find out more information so we are informed on what is happening, wheather than means more testing or just educating ourselves.

    Ultrasound may in your opinion be a waste of resources and although we are pregnant we are not brainless enough to presume that it is not without it's faults, but to not offer tehe service of ultrasound would be like moving into the dark ages again for us mums.

    I know you can't fully understand where i am coming from as never having had the joy and fear of carrying a baby yourself you can't possibly know the feelings we have relating to ultrasound.

    Taz
    BTW having read your post i'll not be rushing out to buy one of your books.

  5. #23

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    Belinda

    Sorry you have had these scares, but try to use them in a positive way, quiz the balls off your OB to find out all you can (hard if its a woman but you know what i mean). It may help to have a referral to a genetic councelor to thrash it out with someone who has seen others in the same boat. Whether this leads you on to furthet testing or just gives you something to keep your mind active for the next 10 weeks is up to you, but please don't let this spoil your last few weeks so get the answers you need however you have to

    Taz

  6. #24
    Sal Guest

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    Belinda, I wasn't going to post as I haven't had an experience like yours, but I am glad that you questioned the 'few thoughts' posed by David Vernon...as I read his post I was thinking 'what the...?' how does that provide anything at all useful to your situation? The cheek of him to use your post as a personal soapbox vehicle!

    Anyway, I really hope that the markers are just that and there is nothing wrong with your precious bub.

  7. #25

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    Yes i had at first chose to ignore it but then thought it was rude for him to do and felt it deserved question!

    Thanks for those with supportive words and i will look into the suggestions given

  8. #26
    skorpy Guest

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    I think what David is trying to say is that Ultrasound can sometimes be wrong and to consider the mothers feelings when and if something is found...which really is hard to do,because if something is found there is never an easy or delicate way of telling the parents.I think David is just pointing this out and trying to reasure us ladies.

    In my case also,I was unessassarily made to worry.Specially considering my 3 previous scans was shown normal and I was told baby was fine.And to top it off was also told that they couldnt see too well because of increased Amnotic fluid.

    I can understand Balindas worry even though she has had some piece of mind in this thread which is a great support,but you still have it in the back of your mind.

  9. #27

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    I dont think David meant anything bad by what he was saying - I just think he could have chose a better thread to vent this. It doesn't need to be a "bash the man thread", so I think its just best if everyone ignores what was said with respect to Belinda's problems.
    What you are really after is support, and a few of the girls have given you excellent advice. I think what Michelle has suggested about a hotline is an excellent one to think about - I'm sure if you called your local hospital they would give you numbers over the phone immediately.
    I think Tegans story was also excellent and reassuring for you. Lily is a beautiful bonny baby girl, so thats good testimony that 1 or 2 markers might not mean anything.
    Big hugs to you Belinda - I hope things are all sorted out for you on Thursday.

  10. #28

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    Belinda I've done some checking on line not sure if you have or not yet but i have found a couple of numbers you can call. Email me if you want them.

  11. #29

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    Belinda all the best with your appt tomorrow.
    Thinking of you always.

  12. #30

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    Come on guys please remember that we have a strict no flaming rule! I don't think David was using your thread, and I think attacking him based on his personal opinions isn't exactly fair and if someone else were to do that to you I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy about it! I know I've been guilty of reading a post and it bringing up feelings and posting and possibly going off on a tangent. David wasn't having a personal attack on anyone he was just giving his opinion. And comments like "BTW having read your post i'll not be rushing out to buy one of your books." aren't necessary.

    Keep it nice please!

    If you can't say something nice walk away from the keyboard and return when you can... its that simple!

    *hugs*
    Cailin

  13. #31

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    I just want to second that Cailin.

    Guys this is a FORUM. It is for discussion of topics and by posting you are inviting a range of responses. I hope it doesn't have to get to the point where we have to post and write that we're only wanting replies from people who agree with us. I am getting sick of people being flamed and attacked for their opinion - we are intelligent women (and men) not children. Childish comments will be removed in future.

    David is well respected in the birth community and his comments are valid and educated - but it seems this forum is becoming very closed-minded to opinions of those in the birth industry. Why does it all seem so terribly alternative to so many out there, that those in the industry are saying 'crazy' things? Why make all this up? They are making it out of experience and David particularly has played a very involved role in birth with his own children and to doubt that there is a connection from fathers in not fair.

    It's just like the overload of information you get as a new mother, you simply smile and thank people for their comments and take on board what suits you. Just because there is some form of anonymity of the forums doesnt mean we should attack more. I feel honoured that there are so many on the forums now who support woman's choice and fighting for that. David has written several books for the Maternity Coalition who spend so much money and time fighting for choice at birth and making sure those Obs / other carers who are nasty to us get dealt with.

    I don't understand why someone offering a different view should be treated like this. It wasnt an attack on a person, rather a technology which has proven to be inaccurate. Google Dr. Sarah Buckley's article on ultrasounds and you will see David's point is shared amongst many others in the industry.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  14. #32

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    I'm with the above few posts....we're always warning each other to not take some ultrasounds too seriously, like the ones which tell uls we're having monsterous sized babies which turn out to be 6 pounders, so when David makes a comment which validifies that, why on earth do we jump all over him? His comments were coming from a kind heart and so what if he hijacked the thread, others do it all the time (like me now!)....
    Keep posting, David....
    Last edited by chocolatecatty; August 23rd, 2006 at 03:13 PM.

  15. #33

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    mmm seems this thread has gone way off track, but i am taking what i want out if and leaving it at that

    Thanks to everyone who is responding, i do appreciate it.

    I am feeling a bit better about things but like previous poster said its always in the back of your mind, so constant stress headaches are here to stay

    Thanks for good luck for tommorow, i just hope i walk away feeling somewhat more informed tommorow

    That is what the main problem was, not the scan results, that nothing was explained, hence why i asked the question in the first place

  16. #34

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    As you mentioned Bel, it's really hard for anyone to give an answer to reassure you, because we can't see what the ultrasound person did, we don't know much about it like yourself, and not many (any?) of us who posted have had this problem. So i think people were just trying to support you in a different way, perhaps trying to reassure you that it may be nothing to worry about due to inaccuracies with testing - they just didn't have any insight with such little info. Ask lots of questions tomorrow and we'll look forward to finding out more

    If you want more info on testing and accuracy there is a book by Lachlan De Crespigny called 'Pre-Natal Testing.' See below.

    Prenatal Testing by Lachlan De Crespigny
    Published by Penguin Books, RRP AUD$22.00

    Prenatal diagnosis is a rapidly developing area and, as couples increasingly have children later in life, nearly 20% of pregnant women are offered testing because of their age. There is no uniformity in the way pregnant women are presented with the often difficult decision regarding prenatal testing and, if an abnormality is found, women have few guidelines to help them to decide what to do.

    Prenatal Testing presents the stories of women and their partners who have made such decision, supported by information about medical procedures and counselling. It offers vital guidance through a decision-making process that takes place at many levels – before and after testing, and between couples and family members as well as individuals and the medical profession.

    Lachlan de Crespigny is a partner at the private clinic, Melbourne Ultrasound for Women, which sees approximately 10,000 patients a year, and head of the Ultrasound Department. A former president of the Australasian Society for Ultrasound Medicine, he is the country’s most prominent spokesperson on prenatal testing. He has published over 60 articles and book chapters in national and international publications, in addition to several bestselling books.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  17. #35

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    thanks for your info

    I was personally put off by the post that was put here simply because i had just found out about this all and it wasnt really what i needed to read, i know facts and figures, but i do believe they were probally just trying to be helpful to me, anyhow thanks again for the support and hopefully i can post more info about what i have found out tommorow

  18. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cailin
    Come on guys please remember that we have a strict no flaming rule! I don't think David was using your thread, and I think attacking him based on his personal opinions isn't exactly fair and if someone else were to do that to you I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy about it! I know I've been guilty of reading a post and it bringing up feelings and posting and possibly going off on a tangent. David wasn't having a personal attack on anyone he was just giving his opinion. And comments like "BTW having read your post i'll not be rushing out to buy one of your books." aren't necessary.

    Keep it nice please!

    If you can't say something nice walk away from the keyboard and return when you can... its that simple!

    *hugs*
    Cailin
    To be honest i can't see where anyone was having a go at anyone else, only outting forward viewpoints and personal feelings, I had no idea that this was classed as inflamatory. I stand by what i said and what i believe and that is that for an expectant mother ultrasound is a useful tool and one which can give valuable information. and this is not said lightly as i am not a first time other but one who has had many different car experience during previius pregnancies. I also stand by my comment that i will not be rushing out to buy one of Davids books, i obviously don't share his viewpoints on things.

    It's very nice to see how people involved in the childbirth industry have respect for and stand up for one another.

    But i have to say i do not appreciate being accused of "flaming" just because my opinion differs from that of an "expert". Everyone in life is different and peoples views on things are different. I presumed that on a forum you could voice an opinion from your viewpoint, i appologise for this misunderstanding and to anyone who was offended by my post.

    Over and out
    Taz

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