taking bullying further

[lady_neon]

I vote photos and police.

A boy in my brother's year was being picked on and beaten up school never did anything (that helped anyway) and the parents got the police involved. Some kids were charged with assault.

[LizLemon]

I'm sorry, but that is a disgraceful thing to say. You have no idea about this child's parents or his situation or anything that puts you in a position to be so rude and ignorantly judgmental.

Whoa. LS I'm sorry if what I said offended you or anyone else. But I was not referring to bullies in general. I know that all kids are capable of being bullies, heck, I'm sure I did some things in my childhood that intimidated or hurt another child without me being fully aware of the consequences. And likewise I am sure that my children will also do similar things. And if so I will deal with it. I am in no way judging parents of children who do things that could technically be construed as bullying, as long as the parents take responsibility for it and assist the school and child in resolving the issue.

I am talking about THIS child. This is a prolonged campaign of terrorising a vulnerable child and the school has been involved countless times and it would be a very fair assumption that the child's parents have also been involved. And there has been no improvement? In fact it has escalated during that time where it is now at a physical level. For a child to continue to escalate and for the parents not to be correcting the behaviour does, I'm sorry, indicate the parents not doing the job at some level. Also as TFB said, many children are monkey-see monkey-do.

Apologies Beatrix if you were offended, I'm really not talking about situations such as yours. All kids flex their power over other kids, it is normal and they need parents to guide them, as you have done. I am talking about this kid who sounds like a piece of work.

[kateo]

I think it sounds like the current policy the school has is not fully being implemented or is perhaps ineffective. My suggestion would be to arrange to have the bully and your child in separate playground areas. The bully is 2 years older and should be (hopefully) playing with his own friends and your LO should be able to enjoy playing safely. I would hope it could be arranged (even in a small school with composite classes) that the boys have different teachers.
I have seen playground division work really well. Both kids need support to remembr which areas they are and aren't allowed to play in and in this way their paths don't cross. If there are popular spots that they both like enjoying then it's swapped between the days.
Teachers need to support this by giving reminders before play time.
Contacting the media seems like s really silly idea as it reinforces the kids roles in the drama!

[diannescruffy]

This is what they do at my children's school, separate the children, or depending on how serious the "bully" will walk alongside the yard duty teacher or spend lunch time in the staff room. Physical bullying is an instant suspension though. Two years of this bullying is absolutely outrageous and I feel furious that the principal hasn't taken action. I would strongly encourage you to make a formal complaint to the Department of Education and I hope some action will be taken, all the very best.

Regards,
Dianne

[AnyDream]

FWIW I have had good results in the past by putting my concerns in writing to the principal with class teacher(s) and school counsellor cc'd in. I described the entire incident as reported, explained the ways in which it was unacceptable, and the desired outcomes. The principal later told me they were very grateful for the letter because they were able to give a copy to the parents of the 2 children (with my child's details stripped out). One set of parents had been in denial that their child's behaviour was unacceptable, but the calm and detailed letter gave the school a tool to work with them.

[peanutter]

This doesn't answer your question, but raises another one ...


Question: Do you know for sure whether the bully's parents know what their child is doing?

Personally (and this is hypothetical, as DS1 is only 2yo) I think that I would approach the parents in a non confrontational way, to discuss what was happening, from my child's perspective. I would ask whether they were aware of it, and (if they were) what their child had reported back to them.

I was had a lot of run-ins with one particular girl at my primary school who I found to be a bully (she was lots taller and bigger than me, pushed me around a bit and swore at me) but apparently *she* thought that *I* was mean to *her* because I'd use big words she didn't understand, and she incorrectly thought I was doing it on purpose to make her feel stupid and inferior ...

There may be something completely innocent on your DS's part - not to say he in any way is responsible for the bully's conduct. Or perhaps the bully just perceives there to be something different about your son, and he picks on him because of that (again - completely unacceptable but perhaps some education and empathy could go a long way to resolving the issues).

I remember that a much older boy from primary school (I was Gr 1, he was Gr 6) stole my shoe and threw it up a tree, and I got into enormous trouble, but then my parents followed it up and the boy had to hand write a letter of apology. I found it in my parents' filing cabinet about 15 years later (they hadn't let me read it at the time) and he was clearly very sorry ... he never bothered my sister or me after the shoe incident ... I'm not sure whether the school or the parents extracted the note, but I think the act of having to sit down and construct a permanent apology by hand made a big impact. Maybe you could ask whether that could be done, as a starting point? Apologising for what he did, and for the effect that had?

So I guess (to come to some sort of a point) I think I'd follow up with the parents, with as collaborative an approach as possible - this is what is going on from my child's perspective, is there any light that can be shed from your child's perspective? Yes? No? What can we do about it - we've got 4 long years together at this school, and I'd like both of our kids to have a positive time there...

I'd take the photos, but I probably wouldn't use them as "proof" of the event, only evidence of the extent ... if they're bot going to believe their child would hurt yours, a photo won't prove anything, but if they accept that's happened, and they just think you're exaggerating the extent of the harm, it may make it a bit more concrete for them.

And I'd be prepared for the possibility that they do know, and they don't care ... Or that they're at their wits end with him, and aren't open to discussing it with you ... Or that they aren't open to talking to you at al about it.

But I would hope that if I was approached in that way, even if I was shocked, I would be open to a polite, constructive conversation.

[nickle730]

Hi Yael, I'm sorry that your DS is having a difficult time at school. My DD1 had some ongoing issues with a girl at school last year and it was very upsetting for her - and for me! I think, as a parent, you just want to send your kid to school knowing that they will be safe and happy.

I disagree with some of the PP's - unless you have a very good pre existing relationship with the parents of the other child, I definitely would not approach them. As much as it is your job to advocate for your child, it is their job to advocate for their child. It is very doubtful that they will see the situation in the same light that you do. It's unlikely that their child has said 'yeah, mum and dad, I've been bullying that kid'. If they are aware of the situation, I suspect that their child has placed at least some of the blame on your child ie. 'he was sitting on the end of the tunnel and I couldn't get past, so I asked him to move and he just wouldn't. I tried to go around him and he pushed me and then he fell off'. So, if I'm the parent of that child, it looks like he's done nothing wrong. He asked your DS to move and he wouldn't, so he tried to go around him. As the older child's parent, it's my job to advocate for him - if you ring me and say 'your kid pushed my kid off the tunnel and I have photo's of the bruises he caused', I'm likely to tell you to get stuffed - not the story I got from my kid. Why would I believe your child over mine?

Which raises an interesting point - usually there are three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth. Perspective alters the truth and emotion clouds fact. Last year, I headed down to my DD's school determined to sort out the situation with the girl who had been bullying her. After getting to the bottom of it all, it turned out the my DD was not faultless. Doesn't matter whether she was the instigator or the respondent, I discovered that her behaviour had not always been conducive to peace and harmony. In the last term of last year, the girls had some mediation with the school counsellor to help them understand how the other perceived their behaviour. We finished the year with the girls getting along and I hope that continues this year.

It is the school's job to deal with issue that occur at school. I think it is highly doubtful that you will reach any sort of positive outcome by approaching the parents of the other child. If you are unhappy with the way the school is handling the matter, I would report the matter to the next highest authority (the Dept of Education??).

I hope that you can get to the bottom of the matter and that your DS can enjoy his time at school.

[AngelPants]

Yael I would go to the dep of ed, in SA (not sure about anywhere else) they can get involved, mediate between the school & parents, enforce actions the school has to take etc and if needed, get your child moved to a school where he can feel safe.

[diannescruffy]

I agree with Nickle, our school discourages parents approaching each other. Another thing our school does is the children receive an agreement which needs to be signed by their parents, that way the parents know what is going on with their child at school.

Regards,
Dianne

[Yael]

Thank you so much for all of your replies - you have definitely given me a lot to think about in regards to how to approach this!

I have spoken to our Rabbi, and for the moment the way we are going to proceed is for me to call our psychologist and have her report it to the school. She also has mandatory reporting, so she can use this power to the school about if they are not going to do anything about it she will have to take it further. We all feel she can ask questions about how they dealt with it when the last report was made, why didn't they deal with it better on Friday, and what their plans are for the future. We all feel it could backfire on me if I make a lot of fuss (I don't think it will, but I don't want to be fobbed off, and then have to take it to the dept of ed, and then for it to backfire), and also if it comes from the psychologist I think they will take it a lot more seriously.

I will wait to see how that goes tomorrow and then decide how to proceed. The fact I'm going in for an operation on Wed and will be out of action for at least 2 weeks is not helping my stress levels. I scheduled it a week after school started so I could make sure he settled in OK, and didn't expect this to happen straight away.

In regard to the parents raising a boy who bullies, I am acquaintances of these parents (not good friends, but in our small community we all know each other), and one of my close friends is best friends with the mother. The parents are fine, upstanding people, and although I have never seen their parenting in action, I hope they wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. I don't know if they even know about it TBH. There are dropkick parents who teach their children (though personal example or directly egging them on), to be bullies, but I don't think these are those type of parents. I don't know if the boy has his own problems (not that I'm excusing his behaviour), I'm just saying I'm not 100% certain I could ever guarantee one of my children would never bully somebody. I hope to G-D the wouldn't, but we are all individuals with free choice. As a parent my biggest responsibility would be educating my child and dealing with it if they did.

In regard to egging kids on, the amount of people who encouraged me to tell DS to fight back is surprising. I refuse to do it because,
1) what value am I imparting to my child
2) the chances of him bullying a total different child I would say would be higher and
3) we cause enough problems at the school with DS special needs (I am realistic about it, it costs more for the school and causes more work for teachers, not that I feel bad but its the truth), and if DS started being physical it would be another strike against him.

I will update you all on how this turns out...

[LizLemon]

I hope this plan of attack wil lead to quick results and that your DS is doing ok

[diannescruffy]

That sounds like an excellent plan, wishing you the very best that the bullying issues get resolved.

Regards,
Dianne

[peanutter]

sounds like you've got it under control.

all the very best for a positive outcome, and all the very best for your own procedure and recovery.

[Mother Goose]

I think it's a great plan. Please update is later.

Wishing you a speedy recovery too xo

[Lenny]

Great plan Yael. All the best this week.

[sepata]

Sounds like a fantastic plan all the best with everything coming up for you and your family over the next couple of weeks.

[Footsteps]

I hope you get a reasonable response from the school. I was bullied for years and my school did nothing. I think the plan you have in place is perfect x

[mrscricket]

Good luck Yael and good on you for standing up for your son. I too hate it when people tell kids to fight back. My brother was bullied for years by a boy on the bus, and nothing was ever done about it until the day my brother 'fought back' by punching the bully in the nose and he was the one that was suspended, with no consideration for the years of torment he had gone through. Hope everything works out for you xx