taking bullying further

[Lenny]

Great plan Yael. All the best this week.

[Beatrix]

I'm sorry, but that is a disgraceful thing to say. You have no idea about this child's parents or his situation or anything that puts you in a position to be so rude and ignorantly judgmental.

Agree with this!!

My daughter (8) has been the bully (well i not sure if i would say bully as she doesn't target one child and its jot constant) Not a physical bully but she knows how to strike a few words to hurt. I have and always address the issue and punish her as I see fit. I have had the school also support the ways I deal with it. I am not a bad parent because of this. My daughter is not a horrible child either, she is a child who is learning her way through the world. Doesn't excuse her behavior one bit though and she isn't allowed to eat away with it.

As for the OP situation I would def follow it up and speak to the principal. I don't know the age of the children in question so not sure what else I would do.

I hope it does cease immediately for you though.

[lady_neon]

I vote photos and police.

A boy in my brother's year was being picked on and beaten up school never did anything (that helped anyway) and the parents got the police involved. Some kids were charged with assault.

[nickle730]

Hi Yael, I'm sorry that your DS is having a difficult time at school. My DD1 had some ongoing issues with a girl at school last year and it was very upsetting for her - and for me! I think, as a parent, you just want to send your kid to school knowing that they will be safe and happy.

I disagree with some of the PP's - unless you have a very good pre existing relationship with the parents of the other child, I definitely would not approach them. As much as it is your job to advocate for your child, it is their job to advocate for their child. It is very doubtful that they will see the situation in the same light that you do. It's unlikely that their child has said 'yeah, mum and dad, I've been bullying that kid'. If they are aware of the situation, I suspect that their child has placed at least some of the blame on your child ie. 'he was sitting on the end of the tunnel and I couldn't get past, so I asked him to move and he just wouldn't. I tried to go around him and he pushed me and then he fell off'. So, if I'm the parent of that child, it looks like he's done nothing wrong. He asked your DS to move and he wouldn't, so he tried to go around him. As the older child's parent, it's my job to advocate for him - if you ring me and say 'your kid pushed my kid off the tunnel and I have photo's of the bruises he caused', I'm likely to tell you to get stuffed - not the story I got from my kid. Why would I believe your child over mine?

Which raises an interesting point - usually there are three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth. Perspective alters the truth and emotion clouds fact. Last year, I headed down to my DD's school determined to sort out the situation with the girl who had been bullying her. After getting to the bottom of it all, it turned out the my DD was not faultless. Doesn't matter whether she was the instigator or the respondent, I discovered that her behaviour had not always been conducive to peace and harmony. In the last term of last year, the girls had some mediation with the school counsellor to help them understand how the other perceived their behaviour. We finished the year with the girls getting along and I hope that continues this year.

It is the school's job to deal with issue that occur at school. I think it is highly doubtful that you will reach any sort of positive outcome by approaching the parents of the other child. If you are unhappy with the way the school is handling the matter, I would report the matter to the next highest authority (the Dept of Education??).

I hope that you can get to the bottom of the matter and that your DS can enjoy his time at school.

[AnyDream]

FWIW I have had good results in the past by putting my concerns in writing to the principal with class teacher(s) and school counsellor cc'd in. I described the entire incident as reported, explained the ways in which it was unacceptable, and the desired outcomes. The principal later told me they were very grateful for the letter because they were able to give a copy to the parents of the 2 children (with my child's details stripped out). One set of parents had been in denial that their child's behaviour was unacceptable, but the calm and detailed letter gave the school a tool to work with them.

[peanutter]

This doesn't answer your question, but raises another one ...


Question: Do you know for sure whether the bully's parents know what their child is doing?

Personally (and this is hypothetical, as DS1 is only 2yo) I think that I would approach the parents in a non confrontational way, to discuss what was happening, from my child's perspective. I would ask whether they were aware of it, and (if they were) what their child had reported back to them.

I was had a lot of run-ins with one particular girl at my primary school who I found to be a bully (she was lots taller and bigger than me, pushed me around a bit and swore at me) but apparently *she* thought that *I* was mean to *her* because I'd use big words she didn't understand, and she incorrectly thought I was doing it on purpose to make her feel stupid and inferior ...

There may be something completely innocent on your DS's part - not to say he in any way is responsible for the bully's conduct. Or perhaps the bully just perceives there to be something different about your son, and he picks on him because of that (again - completely unacceptable but perhaps some education and empathy could go a long way to resolving the issues).

I remember that a much older boy from primary school (I was Gr 1, he was Gr 6) stole my shoe and threw it up a tree, and I got into enormous trouble, but then my parents followed it up and the boy had to hand write a letter of apology. I found it in my parents' filing cabinet about 15 years later (they hadn't let me read it at the time) and he was clearly very sorry ... he never bothered my sister or me after the shoe incident ... I'm not sure whether the school or the parents extracted the note, but I think the act of having to sit down and construct a permanent apology by hand made a big impact. Maybe you could ask whether that could be done, as a starting point? Apologising for what he did, and for the effect that had?

So I guess (to come to some sort of a point) I think I'd follow up with the parents, with as collaborative an approach as possible - this is what is going on from my child's perspective, is there any light that can be shed from your child's perspective? Yes? No? What can we do about it - we've got 4 long years together at this school, and I'd like both of our kids to have a positive time there...

I'd take the photos, but I probably wouldn't use them as "proof" of the event, only evidence of the extent ... if they're bot going to believe their child would hurt yours, a photo won't prove anything, but if they accept that's happened, and they just think you're exaggerating the extent of the harm, it may make it a bit more concrete for them.

And I'd be prepared for the possibility that they do know, and they don't care ... Or that they're at their wits end with him, and aren't open to discussing it with you ... Or that they aren't open to talking to you at al about it.

But I would hope that if I was approached in that way, even if I was shocked, I would be open to a polite, constructive conversation.

[AngelPants]

Yael I would go to the dep of ed, in SA (not sure about anywhere else) they can get involved, mediate between the school & parents, enforce actions the school has to take etc and if needed, get your child moved to a school where he can feel safe.

[diannescruffy]

I agree with Nickle, our school discourages parents approaching each other. Another thing our school does is the children receive an agreement which needs to be signed by their parents, that way the parents know what is going on with their child at school.

Regards,
Dianne

[Yael]

Thank you so much for all of your replies - you have definitely given me a lot to think about in regards to how to approach this!

I have spoken to our Rabbi, and for the moment the way we are going to proceed is for me to call our psychologist and have her report it to the school. She also has mandatory reporting, so she can use this power to the school about if they are not going to do anything about it she will have to take it further. We all feel she can ask questions about how they dealt with it when the last report was made, why didn't they deal with it better on Friday, and what their plans are for the future. We all feel it could backfire on me if I make a lot of fuss (I don't think it will, but I don't want to be fobbed off, and then have to take it to the dept of ed, and then for it to backfire), and also if it comes from the psychologist I think they will take it a lot more seriously.

I will wait to see how that goes tomorrow and then decide how to proceed. The fact I'm going in for an operation on Wed and will be out of action for at least 2 weeks is not helping my stress levels. I scheduled it a week after school started so I could make sure he settled in OK, and didn't expect this to happen straight away.

In regard to the parents raising a boy who bullies, I am acquaintances of these parents (not good friends, but in our small community we all know each other), and one of my close friends is best friends with the mother. The parents are fine, upstanding people, and although I have never seen their parenting in action, I hope they wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. I don't know if they even know about it TBH. There are dropkick parents who teach their children (though personal example or directly egging them on), to be bullies, but I don't think these are those type of parents. I don't know if the boy has his own problems (not that I'm excusing his behaviour), I'm just saying I'm not 100% certain I could ever guarantee one of my children would never bully somebody. I hope to G-D the wouldn't, but we are all individuals with free choice. As a parent my biggest responsibility would be educating my child and dealing with it if they did.

In regard to egging kids on, the amount of people who encouraged me to tell DS to fight back is surprising. I refuse to do it because,
1) what value am I imparting to my child
2) the chances of him bullying a total different child I would say would be higher and
3) we cause enough problems at the school with DS special needs (I am realistic about it, it costs more for the school and causes more work for teachers, not that I feel bad but its the truth), and if DS started being physical it would be another strike against him.

I will update you all on how this turns out...

[LizLemon]

I hope this plan of attack wil lead to quick results and that your DS is doing ok

[diannescruffy]

That sounds like an excellent plan, wishing you the very best that the bullying issues get resolved.

Regards,
Dianne

[peanutter]

sounds like you've got it under control.

all the very best for a positive outcome, and all the very best for your own procedure and recovery.

[Mother Goose]

I think it's a great plan. Please update is later.

Wishing you a speedy recovery too xo

[sepata]

Sounds like a fantastic plan all the best with everything coming up for you and your family over the next couple of weeks.

[Footsteps]

I hope you get a reasonable response from the school. I was bullied for years and my school did nothing. I think the plan you have in place is perfect x

[mrscricket]

Good luck Yael and good on you for standing up for your son. I too hate it when people tell kids to fight back. My brother was bullied for years by a boy on the bus, and nothing was ever done about it until the day my brother 'fought back' by punching the bully in the nose and he was the one that was suspended, with no consideration for the years of torment he had gone through. Hope everything works out for you xx

[Mel_B1981]

I don't have children so can't comment on what I would do in your situation, but I can remember my brother being bullied (and beaten up) by a kid that was in my year level (3 years above my brother). My Dad lost the plot and called the school demanding the child's parents address phone number so he could discuss the situation with the other child's parents (it was all happened on the walk too/from school so never on school property therefore out of school's control).

The school gave the phone number and my Dad called them and they provided their address so Dad could go over and discuss further. He took my brother with him (black eye and all from the most recent attack) and Dad, and the other kids parents ripped through him about it.

My brother was never bothered by this kid again.

Obviously times have changed a bit since this happened (this was in the 80s), and the chance of the school giving out the other parents phone number or address are slim....but you never know, they might be listed in the white pages or something and you could contact them and discuss their child's behaviour directly with them and let them be the ones who assist handle the matter if the school won't help.

[Yael]

I was lucky there was a cancellation with the psychologist this morning, so I got to have a good chat about it.

She feels the bruising is significant (it isn't huge or anything, but it was only a few hours later), and agreed on our plan of approach. She is staying back late at work to make sure she gets an email to the school psychologist (who is the one she normally deals with in relation to DS), to ask

1) did she know about the incident
2) what is their policy about physical incidents - i.e. incident report, informing parents, checking child for injury and was the policy followed in this case.
3) what is their policy on bullying - i.e. how is it escalated
4) how was it dealt with last time
5) do the boys parents know what is going on?
6) how are they going to proceed.

She tells me technialy she doesn't have mandatory reporting, teachers & doctors do, but not psychologists (which is stupid IMO, as kids could tell their psychologist this), but she will allude to it anyway as she can report it if she wants to, she just doesn't have to.

If the school psychologist doesn't deal with it properly, she will escalate it to the principle (which I hope that somehow it gets back to him, as he is friends of my BIL, and I've been really impressed at how he has dealt with things in the past - he has only been there for under a year), but hopefully the school psychologist will inform everyone at the school.

I emailed them today and asked for a "copy of their comprehensive bullying policy" that it says we can ask for in the parent handbook... They don't have any printed copies around so hopefully they will email it so I can forward it to the psychologist before she writes the letter. I always find having their information & policy to use against them works best!

I just hope we can get this resolved.

Mel - I know they parents, know where they live & their phone number.. It's really awkward when I run into the mother & make small talk because I have no idea if she knows, or maybe she knows about her son but doesn't know who he is doing it to? I would prefer at this stage to let the school deal with it, and if they are not doing so then I will consider going to them directly.

It's all about playing my cards right at the moment I think

Will let you know how the next few days go.

I have a meeting at 9am at the school with his classroom teacher (who was the one on yard duty that day) & the school psychologist to see how DS is settling in.. And then off to the hospital at lunchtime for my op. Let's see how high my blood pressure is!