Being Responsible for Our Feelings

[Bathsheba]

We all at times feel judged, compared, upset and offended but what strategies do you have to avoid these feelings from ruling your life? Do you try to change your perceptions or do you want the world to change? Do you wish you had a thicker skin? (I do!) and what are you doing to work toward that?

How are you helping your child to develop this emotional skill? If something upsets your child do you run down to the playground and tell every student to 'play nicely' or do you tell your child something like "ah don't listen to them, they don't know what they're talking about... it's not true' *hug*

Mods: I would have preferred to pop this thread somewhere other than the General section where it will probably get washed away by the rapid flow of other threads... any suggestions? Feel free to move.

I started this this thread as a place to continue another discussion that was interesting but Off Topic (OT) in another thread. The point was raised that some phrases like OMG could be offensive to some members but given that this phrase is hardly ever used to deliberately offend it is probably ok to leave un-banned. I agree. Though as a Christian i personally don't like the phrase OMG (and am constantly telling my teenage DD not to use it) I can over look it's use in BB and choose not to be offended. What do other people think?

[Rouge]

I'm pretty thick skinned, and we do try to teach our children this... If I listed all the "tools" we've taught Paris I think I'd be here for a while and some of them aren't so great LOL. Like when people call her weird her father taught her to reply with "Well your normal" and the like LOL! But it works, she has no problems with friends, doesn't get offended or caught up in the catty cliques at school and has a great self esteem.

However, I think its important to teach empathy. And even if you don't feel the same pain another person feels I think its equally important to acknowledge someone elses pain KWIM? And I try to do this too, because as easy as it is sometimes to tell someone to suck it up, it very rarely works. And sometimes a gentle hand can be just as effective as a heavy one. We have grown as humans to nurture our children more than what our parents did or grandparents did but I think we've forgot how to nurture our fellow man. And I'm not talking about placating or enabling just acknowledging and showing empathy or understanding. Instead of "Well I don't think that way so get over it." Which we can do, and I know I have done on occasion too... even though I try not to.

[ladybird11]

I think for me, and teaching DD, its a work in progress. I also wish I was more thick skinned in my personal life (my working life, due to my job - I have to be thick skinned). Must be something about the uniform lol.

I want my kids to be more thick skinned, but not to a point of arrogance (not sure if thats the right word to use - in any event, I don't mean to offend anyone ). Ideally I would like my kids to be fair and firm in their manner (gosh, now I am using my 'work speak' lol) and be empathetic to others.

I think for them to learn this, they must observe it - probably best from me, DF and other close people in our lives.

(Bathsheba - doesn't it mean Oh My Gosh? ).

[onthefly]

When I first came across the idea of being responsible for my own feelings I found it a very confronting idea. In fact, I thought it was total rubbish. But the idea niggled at me so much I couldn't help but think about it more and more. And finally, I realised, it is truth!
Things affect us and elicit emotions, this is true. And we can't really control what we feel, as such, but we can control our response and the way we deal with these feelings.
The first thing is acknowledgment. So I want to always acknowledge my son's feelings, even if they seem trifling or I can't understand them. He still feels them nonetheless. So yes, empathy is important. It's definitely not about dismissing other people's feelings cause you don't share them.
And I want to model appropriate responses to strong feelings... well, I'm still working on this. My lower brain still takes over so often, but I think I'm slowly getting there.
I want to try and build greater resilience in my son than I possess, so he can better pick himself up after setbacks or insults and carry on. I can't make the world a better place, I can only leave him better equipped to deal with it. Self awareness is at the heart of this, I believe.
I think this awareness about where my pain comes from has helped in dealing with infertility. Sometimes when others announce pregnancies it still hurts. But I don't attribute that pain to other people any more - it's mine! Somehow that helps, even though I still feel it.

[Marlene]

I think that nobody is ever going to be able to please others 100% and no person is ever able to be pleased 100%. If I see something I don't like, I just try and move on. Most people don't deliberately try and offend, but of course we will all offend somebody at some point, that don't have the same values, ideals, lifestyle as us.

For example...I use OMG constantly..and tonight was the first time I had heard that some people may be offended by it. It honestly had never even crossed my mind that it may offend anyone, probably because I am not religious and to me it is just a bit of text slang.
However, now that I know, if I was to go and post in a Christian thread or topic, I would try and remember not to use the term, out of respect for others that may be offended. Just as I wouldn't go into a Long Term TTC thread and post about how many babies I have. But if we try not to post anything that could be construed as offensive on the public (or general) forums, we would be better off not posting anything at all!

I really do think that unless someone is being blatantly offensive (posting in inappropriate forums or threads, calling rude names, being racist, sexist, ageist etc..) than people really do need to learn to suck it up and move on. Sometimes words just don't come across how we mean them to through a computer screen, and things can be taken out of context very easily.

to all.

ETA: I have just re-read my post and realised that the words "suck it up" may seem harsh and may offend. See what I mean about the words not coming across right? That sounds arrogant and harsh...but I didn't mean it like that. I meant something more like "let it bounce off you", "don't take it on board", "leave it behind". I could have just went in and edited...but I wanted to sorta prove a point, I didn't mean to offend, but I may have unintentionally.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I think it depends. If someone said to me "I hate it when parents name their children after breweries, it's so cheap, makes the whole family look like alcoholics; what about you?" then I may feel a bit offended: DS isn't named after breweries but he just happens to have the name of two breweries. Depends who said it and how. Someone blasphemes and yes, I am offended. I don't choose not to be. Same as constant swearing: it is offensive (to me). I can hack a bit: I swear sometimes. But not all the time. Some words do cause offense and that's why we all know they're blacklisted from most polite conversation - think a job interview or dinner party with the Queen. It's partly me that has to change and partly the world: think before you speak. And think before you reply! It probably wasn't thought out when it was said.

I do get annoyed at people telling me to let Liebling cry it out at nighttime. The first time, OK, I can just say I don't agree with that. I get offended when people repeatedly do this or say why it worked for them. I'm not looking for options or debates, I'm not doing it. You're not listening and that's offensive. Fair enough, you want to help and that's nice. But listen to me too!

BUT stupid things aren't offensive. "Blondes are prettier than brunettes." That's not offensive. It's your POV. (The wrong POV in my eyes, but that's my perspective.) "My son's cleverer than your son." That's a lie and I won't be offended by someone trying to prove themselves. Throwaway comments usually bounce off these days. Things calculated to upset now make me laugh: I'm so important in your life you figured out how I may be hurt? You loser!

I'm hoping to bullyproof DS by letting him know WHY he's so great: he's good at maths because we can count to 10. Actually, he can do that without any prompting apart from the number 5. He's a tidy boy because he brought his breakfast pots to the sink. He's good at making towers because there's a big one in the sitting room when I got up this morning. He has a good memory because he can re-live the train scene in Bolt an hour after watching it for the first time. He can link stories to real life because this morning we saw a cat (who hid from DS) then a dog: DS told the dog where the cat was hiding and suggested the dog may like to chase the cat (he loves the opening scene in Cats and Dogs). There's always a because in my praise. So if someone tells him he's not great he'll know that's a lie: he is great because...

But if the criticism comes with a "because" now that is crushing. If it's from someone who's supposedly caring about me. But then, that person is only human and expressing an opinion, I have to remember that. A wrong opinion, but still their own. I'm doing it wrong because it's different to how they did it, usually. That helps.

I'm upset by you because you are human. And we all stuff up.

Now that little truism took YEARS to learn, but I suppose it was worth it. Does save unnecessary trauma.

[Just Me]

I think one of the most valuable lessons that I have ever been taught is that the only person that you can control is yourself. You do not have the power to make another person do anything but in the same way another person cannot make you do anything either. Yes, they can exert force and pressure on you, but ultimately, you still have the choice in how you react.

I have found this incredibly empowering in my own life and it has a huge impact on how I raise my kids. I know that I cannot control my children, I can use my own words and actions to manage their behaviour, but I cannot make them do anything. I think is particularly made apparent when babies are small and there are times that they will not stop crying. I cannot control whether or not they cry, all I can do is manage their crying as best I can - feeding, cuddling, helping them sleep, changing their nappies, taking them for a walk ... all those things that we try, they are just management.

I guess, this thinking also dictates to me the way that I teach my children about their own behaviour and their own reactions and in turn their own feelings. I think one of the greatest powers that we possess, is the power of control of ourselves. While I tell my DD (even though she is only 2) that it is okay to be angry/hurt/sad etc (just like it is okay to be happy/excited) it is not okay to hit, yell etc. We have to have control of our reactions. I think that by taking control of the way react to things, changes the way we feel about things. Human emotion and feeling is normal, but I guess it is what we do with it.

I think at all times our actions should be appropriate, respect and considerate even if we don't feel like it and I am teaching my kids to think about other people and think about their own behaviour before they react to their feelings.

I don't save them every time there is problem in the playground. I try to teach them constructive conflict resolution and I think a lot of that comes from understanding their own emotions, why they feel the way they do, how it is appropriate to react. I think a lot of people don't understand their own emotions and therefore don't know how to manage them. Already I do a lot of talking with my kids using pictures about facial expressions and what they mean. As they get older we will talk about other signs of different emotions. Being able to identify how you feel and why you feel like you do can sometimes go a long way to solving the problem.

I think that is kind of what you were asking . . .

[Rouge]

I agree totally with the sentiment here... but what if someone is in a place where they aren't able to see that? Do we turn our back then?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

No we don't! Don't you DARE turn your back on me Cai, I need you!

We help them work through it. Sometimes you can only learn these lessons for yourself. There's a limit to how often you can hear it without trying some guidence, but if we love someone we have to be there for them even in the dark places.

And, BTW, people can force you to do things. If someone was going to kill Liebling unless I handed over my house, I would be homeless and would have been forced into that. Violent crime... I am never going to choose to have that happen to me. Someone else chooses to force that upon me. You can argue that's exerting force and pressure on you to do something and not me choosing it, but those examples are pretty coercive in their way.

[fionas]

To some extent I think it depends on our breadth of friendships. At the moment I'm feeling judged by a certain group of friends and I'm feeling more riled than I usually would because they're the only group that I see right now. If I saw my closer friends (who think more similarly to me) then it would be water off a ducks' back.

Because I feel judged about certain choices that I've made (to make do with a smaller house than over-mortgage myself and have to work more and put DD in childcare) then I find it much harder to stay quiet about choices that they've made. Normally, I would because I really am quite thick-skinned but because they have basically scoffed at my suggestions to renovate rather than buy somewhere bigger, it makes me much more judgemental about their choices.

I don't like feeling like this (judging my friends) and I feel a bit trapped in a vicious, judgemental cycle.

I think it's much harder to be thick-skinned when you're not getting validation for your choices from elsewhere.

[Just Me]

I think that nobody is ever going to be able to please others 100% and no person is ever able to be pleased 100%. If I see something I don't like, I just try and move on. Most people don't deliberately try and offend, but of course we will all offend somebody at some point, that don't have the same values, ideals, lifestyle as us.

I think the idea of being happy and pleased is about who we feel is responsible for making us happy. I don't think it is anyone else's job to do that but our own. We have to find fulfillment in ourselves and what we believe before we can be completely happy.

I think it is a bit like people who wait for a relationship to make them happy - I have a few friends like this who say 'If only I had a partner, I would be happy.' I think the thing is that unless they are satisfied with themselves, no-one else will make them happy. It may happen for a while, but somewhere down the line, if they are not happy with who they are as a person, this will creep into a relationship as well.

I think that the ability to move on and let something go if it has the potential to make you unhappy has to do with being satisfied with yourself, the way you are. It takes a lot of self esteem and self respect to do that and not let something bother you.

I think if you find something truly offensive then out of respect for yourself, you avoid situations where you will be confronted with it. For example, I find the idea of strippers offensive so I don't go to strip clubs or watch movies where I will be exposed to it. I think it is about choices. Not that I have a problem with a person who is a stripper and I would quite happily have a conversation with them and have one as a friend, I just don't want to see their work IYKWIM.

I also agree, most people don't mean to be offensive. The internet is another medium entirely to what we are used to and sometimes meanings are lost and things come across as offensive when they are in no way intended to be so.

[Rouge]

Zaidie, dang woman! You'll have me in tears again... I'll blame hormones LOL!

But I guess thats my thing. I like to be able to outreach a hand when a person feels anger or pain or that no one else cares. And even if everyone else sees their pain or their torment as extreme, it is... FOR THEM. And I think if you back a wounded animal into a corner it will attack, if you offer it food and comfort and wait for it to come to you, it will. Through seeing the kindness you offer when no one else would, even when they had no kindness to give themselves, they are more likely to see that the world isn't a complete dark place.

And thats the thing. I have known people in my life who are beyond help and healing. But I have also been thoroughly amazed at the joy in seeing someone creep back from the dark.

So yes I do agree with all that is said here, do (if you are in a place to do so) accept responsibility for your emotions and any guilt you feel. And if you are not there yet keep trying. And if you see someone who isn't quite there yet then don't back them into a corner because they should be more like you.

And I need to remind myself of this daily, because everyone has bad days LOL and I am far from perfect (like opposite end of the scale far). And I often need a reminder that sometimes it pays to think outside my own head and away from my own assumptions, judgements and emotions.

[Just Me]

I agree totally with the sentiment here... but what if someone is in a place where they aren't able to see that? Do we turn our back then?

I think it is about education. I learnt that I could only control myself over a very long process and found the idea confronting to start with. I learnt it while I was a behaviour management teacher at a special school for boys with severe behavioural difficulties.

The boys that I worked with in themselves taught me that I could not control another person's behaviour because they were challenging. I learnt about using my own behaviour to manage them . . . mainly staying calm and waiting them out.

The boys I worked with endured horrible things, and we talked them through lots of what went on in their lives, but we always came back to that they had to take control of themselves. While we acknowledged that it was sad that they had gone through what they had gone through (and I cried on many occassions listening to their stories) we also taught them that they needed to make choices in the things they could control. When they come to school, they have to choose to behave appropriately. In some ways, I thought this approach was uncompassionate at first, but that is the best chance these boys had at life was to learn to control their behaviour and make the most of the opportunities they are given.

There were things in their lives that were out of their control, but it was up to them to control the things that they could and that's where they could make the difference. We taught boys as young as 6 and up to about 15 years old.

One of the best tools we ever used with the boys was to draw a map of an incident that had gone completely wrong - for example the events that led up to them hitting a teacher. Once we had drawn/written down the details on a road drawn on a piece of paper (including what the boys said and what the teacher said and did) we then asked the boys at which point on the map could they have stopped the incident. It really is a bit of an eye opener because it helps you to realise that you have a lot more power in a situation than you initially realise. I used it for myself as a teacher in learning how not to react to secondary behaviours so as not to cause escalation.

It was a very enlightening time in my life about managing myself and my interactions with other people. I am so grateful for that experience now because I think it has helped me to become a much better parent and person in general.

[Bathsheba]

Fantastic discussion everyone! I have to hit the hay now but i look forward to reading more tomorrow. Marcellus touched upon something really interesting about our lower brain paths (which rules our emotions) which reminded me of a documentary I saw recently... must remember to see if there is something (reader friendly) I can find and link to. And Townsvillegirl I think mentioned something about how some people haven't been taught how to manage their emotions and i also think this can be a problem. All the emotional intelligences like resilience and empathy should be fostered in our children just as much as academic intelligence... and maybe it should be more valued in our society than it currently is? Anyhow... must... go... to... bed... thanks for contributing everyone

ETA; Thanks for sharing Townsvillegirl... that's a great example and story!

[Nelle]

I'm going to feel irresponsible re: my feelings when I wake up feeling tired tomorrow - I really should be in bed.

I tend to agree with TG, we can't control others, but we can control our response %100. If I'm feeling a bit defensive, I try to ask 'does it really matter'? Often it doesn't. Especially if a comment/attitude is coming from someone who doesn't really know me. It's hard to be at peace with everyone all the time, because we're all so different. What pleases one person might offend another. For me, I try to be true to myself, while keeping in mind how my words might affect others. I keep the peace up to the point where I'm not willing to compromise. There are some things I won't compromise on, and then, often a wise option is not to say anything at all.

In terms of feeling fragile myself, I guess it depends on the relationship. A criticism from someone who doesn't know me, I try to shrug off, because they don't know me, where I come from or what my values are. From a friend - well there has to be trust in a friendship - I have to trust that they're coming from a place of loving me, and if I'm hurt, it's my responsibility to tell them so they can clarify. What they choose to do with that information is their call. If they betray that trust and continue to hurt me, then I'll distance myself so that they become the category who don't know me I guess.
There probably are exceptions to this, where I will continue to be available to someone because their needs are more important than my feelings. That probably covers the situation you mention Cai, where people aren't in a place to see (or care) that they hurt you.

I also think it comes down to where we get our self worth from too. If my self worth is based on how I parent, how I look, who I am friends with, what I'm good at, then when those things are criticised, or when those things fail, then that poses a problem. I try to base my self worth on something completely unshakeable, and then I find my confidence (and therefore resilience) tends to follow suit. xo

[Just Me]

I read this book called 'Total Forgiveness' and it is about the ability to forgive other people - sometimes without telling them that they have hurt you. Sometimes, I think you do need to tell people when they have hurt you and it is appropriate to, but sometimes, it can be important to find a way to forgive someone without confronting them. The book says that this is the power to move on with your life.

I thought it made some interesting points about forgiveness that are relevant here. The first thing it said which I found really interesting is that often when we are hurt by someone, we feel the need to 'punish' them. Often the only way we have to punish them is to talk about them to other people and damage other people's opinion of them. I found this confronting because I know that I do this. If I feel angry at someone, I often find myself wanting everyone else to feel the same way about them. It is a real challenge to let it go.

It also went on to say that the choice to forgive is a daily choice. We don't just choose to forgive someone and that be it. Often we have to keep making the choice over and over again. Everytime those feelings start to creep back in, we need to decide to forgive all over again and move on.

I found this incredibly difficult to do but have found it very empowering and at the same time very freeing. I think there are times when we need to confront the issue, but I also think there are times when we need to let something go and learn to forgive. The only closure that we will ever have in some situations, is the closure we allow ourselves when we forgive someone else (and in some ways, it is more true when they don't deserve forgiveness).

[maz]

this is hurting so late at night lol

I am a bit guarded at the best of times....I know people see me as a happy go lucky, black and white perosn but (now this is me being truthful) Its a big wall I have up to guard myself and my feelings. I get very nervous when Im under stress and its better for me to walk away then do something I will remember after the event. Its how I protect myself from hurt, from allowing others to get to close so when the friendship ends there is no pain. I suppose past hurts from others have contributed to this...family detrayal and coldness hasnt helped. Being bullied from one extent to the other tore my soul out yet.....because of it, it has helped me relate to others...not to have judgement on people around me and to be excepting of anyone, no matter how different the look, act or seem around me or to others.

I try my best to chat to everyone if there is a room full of people, because I want to know who they are and allow a piece of them to rub of on to me. I like to feed off them and often find myself thinking of the conversation 3 weeks down the track with a silly grin on my face.

I dont take to competition for effection or respect.....its something that I just dont justify having in my life...its something that I see that eats away from you and takes away your individuality.

Jed and I have bought the kids up to respect others and do to them as you would want to do upon you. We want them to know that even if another person doesnt appreciate what they have done, the can have respect for themselves for trying in the first place. Life has thrown us lots of curve ball's and I often worry about how to protect my babies from the hurt we come across at times...yet the best thing I have learnt to do is to let that guard down and show that its alright to show hurt...we are flesh, blood and have feelings......and if your upset or sad, its alright to cry. Its away of releasing anger and sadness... and you can continue then to be more positive about yourself.

[paradise lost]

I believe that you can do anything you want to me, but you can't tell me how to fee about it.

I don't like being misunderstood and will usually explain myself until i feel that my meaning has been understood, but if someone understands and is unwittingly offensive i don't take their ire on with me. It's not my problem, it's theirs. If i DO feel upset by them, unless they were setting out to hurt, it's MY problem.

I forgave (and continue to forgive, Townseville your words were so true! ) the person who sexually abused me. I have very tight control over my mind. Very tight. I attribute my ability to do an entire second stage successfully resisting the pushing reflex to all the practice i got getting control of flashbacks.

I don't feel pain of injustice over inevitables or random acts. I am not in pain at losing my mum when we were both so comparably young (24 and 67, me and she). Everyone dies. I was lucky she was 67 and not 65 or 60 or 44. If she'd been 43 when she died, as everyone must, i wouldn't have been born. I am lucky in all i got, and all i "lost" i was never going to get, i just didn't know it yet. I am immensely pragmatic. I can remember the morning mum died i walked out of her room where the nurses were tidying her body up and into the hospice garden and felt incredibly blessed to have been able to hold her hand, encourage her and love her as she died. When someone dies like that, by degrees, there is inevitably fear. Much as we have transition pain, panic and fear in labour, so the dying reach the point of no return and are injected by their struggling brain with a massive dose of adrenalin as a last-ditch effor to survive. That i could hush her cries, stroke her hair, hold her hand and tell her i was there, she was ok, to go to sleep and not fight anymore, was an incredible gift to me. As she held me for my first breath, so i held her for her last. Sure i could wallow in anguish and pain and misery and bitterness at what i lost that day, but why would i? And miss all that i gained? No thanks!

Even now after over a decade of doing it i still have to practice to sharpen my skills of control. And as i age i realise i can be quite autistic when it comes to others offence - i tend to think "i'm trying hard not to offend so why are you offended!?". I try to take people's intentions as my marker rather than my own emotional reactions. For me pain is a transient tool of the mind which aims to protect me from harm. If you call me a name i will be hurt just long enough to form a retort or move away and no longer. Once negative feelings stop serving me i allow them no further quarter. I am usually hard to offend accidentally, and when it is easy it is MY problem, there is something in me which is hurting, and the reaction is borne of that, not the incidental "insult".

Everything IS a choice. If someone threatened to kill DD or hand over my house i would hand over the house and call the police. And if they couldn't get me my house back i would laugh that the person had to live in a shoebox-sized house and they didn't even get DD to bring the sunshine into it. Choice is everywhere. You just have to recognise it.

Bx