Oh Rozzie big. First of all, you are not really being selfish at all, you have these feelings because you have been through a nightmare! I can understand where you are coming from I have a bit of a similar but different version. My cousin and I are very close, she has a DD 9 months older than Corey, when we decided to have a 2nd baby, so did they, which was great. We fell pregnant after the 3rd cycle and I just assumed she would fall soon too, well nature hasn't been great with her and it just wasn't happening, whereas I went along happily on my way until horror struck us down. She was a great support for me and when we started to try again we thought this was our chance to do it 'together' again. I couldn't help but be a little nervous when each cycle rolled around wondering how I would cope if she got pregnant before me, this is where I battled selfishness thinking how could I NOT be happy for her she has been trying so much longer than me! I got very defensive at her one day when she said to me that 'you get pregnant so easily, I just want to get pregnant' and which I replied back to tell her 'this is the 4th time I have been pregnant, yes, but I only have one child so far!' I felt like telling her off for comparing her 'hardship' with mine, when in reality I should have been grateful for the fact that at least I am pregnant she is now about to start IVF and needs my support. So Rozzie I guess what I am trying to say is we all have our armour around us that tries to protect us and that includes sometimes being a little 'selfish'. The reminders will always be there for Edward some harder than others, but it is good they are there to remind us of our much loved babies.
I identify with everything you guys are feeling, I definitely do. I have days where I'm very angry, and while you describe being angry at Hamish for leaving you, Lan, I get angry at Kebab for surviving and "taking Beiron's place". It may seem crazy, but I think it's all an expression of how I wanted something terribly and, in a sense, I will never, ever have it. I wanted to be happy about being pregnant and have other people be happy for me; instead I'm worried constantly and other people are never sure how to act.
So I have the same kinds of feeling that Rozzie has as well. With Beiron we waited to tell people until after week 12 and the first ultrasound, just like you're "supposed" to. That means everyone was surprised because no one knew we were trying. So everyone was excited and happy for us and jumping for joy. But this time? There's a really sad feeling of "been there, done that" when we talk to people about it. They're now trying to identify (and either succeeding or failing) with a woman who's going through a struggle rather than being happy for a woman who's glowing and growing a little bouncy baby. The little bouncy baby is, in fact, far from everyone's thoughts -- farthest from mine -- because all the focus is on not getting our hopes up and on getting to the next week of the pregnancy.
So a friend of mine who is 6 months pregnant right now, it's pretty tough for me to see her. She got pregnant in April, meaning they were trying while I was pregnant with Beiron and succeeded in getting pregnant after they knew I was pregnant. That upsets me for plenty of crazy-sounded reasons, but I'd like to think that all my feelings are valid. She KNEW I was pregnant when she got pregnant! And now she'll have a baby before me, which is so unfair because I was "supposed to" have a baby before her! And I get the distinct feeling when I'm with her that she's "stealing my thunder". It's "my turn" -- with Beiron, three of our friends were pregnant at the same time and have their lovely little babies now, and now it feels like my turn for people to be ooing and aahing over me (which, as stated, they're not, because they're cautious) and now I sometimes feel like this new pregnant friend is stealing my thunder. In reality, when we're together, it's probably the other way around... I probably complain enough about how my pregnancy is going and how scared I am that hers is written off as "just normal" and pushed aside.
I would have been SERIOUSLY upset (though afraid to express it even to DH) if anyone close to me became pregnant at the same time as me right now. I would have in my pessimism and worry assumed that I'd miscarry and that she would go on to have healthy baby and that that would forever haunt me, not to mention driving me away from yet another female friend whose situation was tough for me to participate in because of my grief. I'd compare myself to her constantly -- symptoms, complications or lack thereof -- so even if we both succeeded I'd be angry that the universe gave her a baby "easily" and made it rough for me.
If I told DH about all of these feelings, and I'm sure we've discussed some of them, he might very well also agree with me that the feelings are selfish. But I don't think he'd mean that I should be ashamed for having them. Sometimes, selfishness is perfectly normal and even good. Imagine Rozzie if we tweak the circumstance a tiny bit -- if you SAID to her that you were GLAD that she lost her baby and felt ZERO guilt for having those feelings... not until then should you be the least bit ashamed of how you feel, and I know that that's not quite how you're feeling and that you're not that person.
Helen, I've also gotten irritated with people who compare their situations to mine, and I feel quite entitled to that irritation. My MIL, who I love, kept telling me about her friend's son, whose wife hasn't been able to get pregnant after 14 years of trying and exhausting all known medical techniques. She would end by saying "At least you can get pregnant" or even telling me that her friend said that. "At least Lori can get pregnant." I eventually had to get up the guts to tell her to please stop saying that to me, because while this other couple is going through a hardship that I am not, they also have never been through what I have, and I didn't think it was fair to either of us to compare, as if weighing on a scale. Same with my friend who had a hard time getting pregnant and had a miscarriage in week 8 the first time. Now she has her baby and has a tendency to treat me like she knows exactly how I feel and almost like I'm being whiney because my situation isn't as "difficult" as hers because I fall pregnant so easily and I should "know" things will work out for me, because it worked for her! I feel angry because they trivialize the death of my child by acting like it's merely a matter of replacing him with another. I don't want them to think my situation is worse than theirs, I just want them to stop telling me it's better than theirs. The measure of a hardship is always in how deeply the individual feels about it, and never in how it compares to what other people have been through. What I'm trying to say, Helen, is that I recognize the feelings you described when you felt your friend was comparing your situations, and I admire the fact that you want to be there to support her with her IVF. I admit that I don't know if I would be able to fully empathize with my friend right now if she was once again TTC and had to jump through hoops just to get pregnant. I would feel the same kind of "It'll work eventually, stop whining, you have one baby already, right?" towards her that she seems to feel towards me!
This is why my feelings for you guys are completely different from my feelings for random pregnant lady on the street, and I can say how I feel here in a way that I can't always to DH and MIL and SIL. Everyone here has been through a lot of pain, and not a single one of you has ever trivialized my feelings, no matter how silly they may seem to me in a rear-view mirror or how small in comparison to what you've been through.
I wrote a really long reply and lost it!!! devastated!!! but I will say thanks to Tildy and Helen, you're both so insightful and helpful. I will try and type my reply again a bit later.
hi guys!
where do i start!
Tildy -i agree with you...my feelings towards people in here and getting pregnant are so different to those outside it. The friend that i have gotton quite upset over seeing her pregnant belly - she will be my reminder of what i have lost a 2nd time. And i want to be happy for her because she did lose a baby at 10 weeks when i lost Jack but right now my emotions over losing Jack and Madison for no apparent reason,are blurring that line. And i feel, angry, guilty upset and all those things you guys have mentioned. But then a reg customer came in the other day who i love seeing and she had a belly and i had no idea she was preg! (go figure how we missed that topic of conversation!) She had 19 days to go and i was so genuinely excited for her. So on the one hand i am avoiding one persons belly and on the other inviting someone back in to show their baby! I also had thurs and fri my manager gushing about her sister just having her baby... even grabbing her mobile phone to proudly show me a photo. And asking advice on what sort of baby presie to buy. It took everything i had to fight back the tears and pretend to share in her excitment. I felt gutted! All i wanted to do was tell her to stop talking about her (the baby was a girl) and i could'nt. She was amazingly supportive with both angel babies but i don't think for a second in her excitment knew how devastating it was to keep talking about it in detail. It was another one of those moments where we place ourselves / emotions aside to be there for others.
Ems 4th b'day party is tomorrow so i will be seeing my MIL like i said, for the first time since i lost Madison. I REALLY hope she does'nt bring anything up.She cares but does'nt think about appropriateness enough! we already had a bad day involving my BIL & SIL as they did'nt recieve their invite to ems party and dan told them it was sunday etc. I wrote them an email and accidently wrote the wrong date (sats date) but in their reply they wrote see you sunday etc and i wrote back see you sunday again also. We got an angry phone call 10.30 this morning going where are you as they were there. they said you told us sunday 11th and dan said yes, sunday and they said but its the 11th today and dan said you knew it was on the sunday. So they basically hung up on him and said to enjoy our day sunday as they "had other plans". GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! So in my horrible emotional state this week i screwed up and boy will we hear about it going forward!
The kids asked today if i could bring home a "big baby". I asked what they meant and josh just said "you know, a big baby". I said do you want mum to have another baby and they both said yes. So obviously their brother and sister are still very much in their thoughts, more than i realise!
anyway - i am quite happy we have all had some selfish posts! we need them sometimes! its a good healthy release! I am forever grateful for stumbling across this site and meeting you girls!Thankfully we CAN say whatever we want and always feel supported!
take care all you preggo girls!
to us preggo-to-bes -take care too!
x jo
Jo, that is so cute about "big babies". Did your kids see either Madison or Jack? Or they just knew that their baby brother and sister were born too soon? Gives me nice shivers to think of such young children being able to comprehend two such devastating losses and still have hope for a "big baby". They could teach us a thing or two!
I gave my niece a CD called The First Little Angels on Earth to try to sort of explain why Hamish left us. She asked DH if there are birthdays in heaven and we both wanted to cry.
Rozzie, Helen, Jo and Tildy, I'm glad we can talk about such feelings. For a while every time I heard about someone getting pregnant, I just assumed that the baby would die eventually. Or if I heard of someone having an early miscarriage I felt that they weren't entitled to as much grief as I am. I was so scared of my own feelings and didn't even dare to tell you guys. So I'm really glad that you raised it Rozzie and we counsel each other.
I don't think any of us are evil or selfish (OK, sometimes I really am!), these must be another expression of our loss and a way to protect our feelings. I hate that we can't all just sit around fatly complaining about normal pregnancy things but I am super grateful that we can share even our darkest thoughts.
I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse Rozzie, but when I saw your little bump and thought of your due date in April, I felt SO excited at that prospect of being pregnant again, at the hope that a pregnancy brings even though for us it will always be accompanied by at times crippling fear, and at the promise of a big fat crying baby, at last. And every time you and Tildy talk about heartbeats, Sue and her little bean's u/s and Katie's wonder girl kicking her way closer and closer to birth, I collect more little pieces of hope and stash them away in my Green Eggs box.
Green Eggs? Well, we nicknamed Hamish "Ham" even more we got pregnant and still call him that to this day so we've started calling our next pregnancy Green Eggs in anticipation because David is a Dr Suess fan and frankly we're very silly :-)
Katie, thank you for your understanding and concern. Your post was a good as hug. I tried the SIDs people once but I prefer you guys and my various "hippy" therapists :-)
I have been reading through all that you have written and I totally understand the feelings of hurt, anger and guilt. It is only normal to feel some form of 'resentment' towards others when they have exactly the thing you desperately desire and have been denied in the cruellest of ways.
I have also found myself struggling since Nathaniel with a mix of emotions. On one hand my brother had a baby boy a few days before we found out about Nathaniel, and yet I never felt any anger towards them. I even held their baby 2 weeks after losing Nathaniel. Same with some friends who's baby boy I have always been able to hold. And of course there is our friends who had a boy (everyone was having boys which did hurt) about 3 weeks after Nathaniel was due. I was very happy for them but I had no desire to rush and see their baby. He was about 3 months by the time I met him and I did hold him and on some levels it hurt like hell, but on another it was very healing. I know they have always felt bad that they got their baby and we didn't, and in a way that has helped us as it means they 'get it'. I even had a girl ask me when that particular baby was due, and I wanted to scream at her...3 weeks after my baby should have been!!! I could not believe that she could be so insensitive to ask me, especially when I know she sees these people more. I just shrugged and said I didn't know. It hurt but it also reminded me that not everyone understands and sometimes people say things without realising how much hurt it will cause. Early on I found it very difficult to hear about other people (besides BB women) falling pregnant as it just hurt too much, especially if I heard that they weren't necessarily thrilled about it.
Don't any of you feel terrible for your emotions and thoughts. I have not read anything malicious or nasty, simply grieving mothers who desperately miss their babies and find reminders all the more difficult. I think it is wonderful that we all feel we can come here and be honest about our feelings and not feel we will be judged. No one can possibly understand the grief unless they have been touched by it either directly or know someone close to them. I am sure that at times, I wasn't always supportive of my sister after her 2 late losses. She should have been 8 months pregnant as a bridesmaid at my wedding, but she wasn't. I am sure on the day she had moments when it reminded her of her little boy.
So be kind to yourselves. And when you all get your BFPs just deal with it the way that feels right. I was very lowkey with this pregnancy and it made me nervous having too many people in public make a fuss etc. I think people picked up that I didn't want a marching band reaction, so most people have been very supportive. Also if people ask me how I have been, both DH and I would always say that it is difficult and emotional and anxiety-filled. I felt this reminded them that this was not our first time and that we needed a different kind of support to the usual.
Anyway, big hugs to you all. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and know that we have all been sitting here nodding our heads and understanding!
Jo - I hope you have a lovely day for Em's birthday and that everyone behaves!
Well I have just been reading all your posts and feel totally emotional about it all. I am crying..... I understand how you all feel and hard it is..... even though my babies where lost earlier in the piece, I found that everytime there is a factor to remind me and the hurt never stops.
Like when I lost my first bubs, all our friends where starting to try at the same time, my best friend was also due within days of me and also my DH best friends wife was due within days as well and my cousin as well. I see those little boys and sometimes wonder about my little angel.
It was so hard seeing them in hospital, in some ways I would have preferred to hide and not having to face it, but I knew I had to and sometimes (even today) I feel myself over compensating being so nice and caring towards their children, so people don't see how lost and hurt I am sometimes.
With my second loss, I was in hospital having a D&C and my SIL was in hospital giving birth to her bubs and I went in with DH and I saw his twin brother holding his boy so proudly and my heart broke for my DH, you could see he was emotional.
With number 3 (which was due in Nov), my Cousin again is due within days of my EDD. Even though it helps to have another little bubs growing inside of me, but I will never forget my angels.
I think I am also going insane, everything with this pregnancy I am fearing that I am going to lose this bubs.
Even last night (TMI coming up), I woke up and I had air in my vagina and it was coming out.... of course I freaked out and told DH. He is very understanding of how I feel, but I think he feels that I am over analysing everything (which I am).
I am so grateful I have you girls to talk to and understand how I am feeling.
You are all very precious to me and it is amazing that I feel exactly the same way, if you girls get pregnant or are pregnant, I love hearing your stories and celebrating with you. But sometimes with people in closer proximity I just want to run away and hide and not have to deal with it.
I am so glad we have this forum to be able to release our feelings.
. First of all, you are not really being selfish at all, you have these feelings because you have been through a nightmare! I can understand where you are coming from I have a bit of a similar but different version. My cousin and I are very close, she has a DD 9 months older than Corey, when we decided to have a 2nd baby, so did they, which was great. We fell pregnant after the 3rd cycle and I just assumed she would fall soon too, well nature hasn't been great with her and it just wasn't happening, whereas I went along happily on my way until horror struck us down. She was a great support for me and when we started to try again we thought this was our chance to do it 'together' again. I couldn't help but be a little nervous when each cycle rolled around wondering how I would cope if she got pregnant before me, this is where I battled selfishness thinking how could I NOT be happy for her she has been trying so much longer than me! I got very defensive at her one day when she said to me that 'you get pregnant so easily, I just want to get pregnant' and which I replied back to tell her 'this is the 4th time I have been pregnant, yes, but I only have one child so far!' I felt like telling her off for comparing her 'hardship' with mine, when in reality I should have been grateful for the fact that at least I am pregnant she is now about to start IVF and needs my support. So Rozzie I guess what I am trying to say is we all have our armour around us that tries to protect us and that includes sometimes being a little 'selfish'. The reminders will always be there for Edward some harder than others, but it is good they are there to remind us of our much loved babies.
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