Babies Born April 1st - 15th 2008 #1

[sarah_dobbo2]

Leyla: Will do keep all updated. Am not and was not thinking about another baby until Wyatt was aleast 1. I blame DH he should have gone and gotten snipped like we planned.

Anyway on the CC I was totally against it, but with 2 other children, life has to go on around Wyatt. I was at emotional break down about 4 weeks ago now, which helped me to see it was ok to let him have a little grizzle. So I tried it, I don't let get worked up.

And if turn from grizzling to crying then I will pick him up. But I know he does it to get mummy, I stay in the room, and he grizzles with eyes shuts. I only let him do it for maybe 2-3 mintues then I will pick him up and give him more boobie, and he was fall to sleep within seconds. I had been getting up to 3hrs nap from him during day, then he got cold, and we are down to about 40-60mins so we need to start having a grizzle again now he is all better.

BUT again I blame DH he brought me a lovley rocking chair to feed Wyatt and its just right for a cuddle, and but the time I look down he is asleep.

Give it a try, stay in room out of sight, and if at any point you dont feel compfortable then pick him up. But can it really hurt to try??? I feel better emotional when it only takes me 5 minutes to get Wyatt to settle rather then 30 mins. Anyway just my point and it works for me, but not for you.

Cheers
Sarah

[Nettie]

To those of you feeling 'blue' - the time of year isn't helping you. It's common for an increase in 'feeling down' at this time as well as more lethargy and feeling isolated. It will get better. Come on spring!

Bedtime routine:

anywhere from 4pm - 7pm: big feed. Fusses for anywhere up to 2 hours then crashes it for about 6 hours.

Early hours (1-3 am) feed
4-6 am - feed

wakes up and plays anytime from 7 am (sometimes a little earlier!). We often hear him on the monitor 'talking' to the mobile that hangs above his cot! He did this for 40 minutes this morning before grizzling. Made it hard to sleep in - but it was very cute!

This afternoon, I put him in his cot as he was grizzling in my arms and he 'played' there for an hour! This gave me the chance to fold all his MC nappies and some other jobs.Then he grizzled, I wrapped him and got him to sleep in 10 mins. I'm probably setting myself up for a bad bedtime with all his playing in the cot - but at least I know he's safe there. He doesn't like it as much on the floor or in the rocker...

I should point out too that DH does all the 'night' feeds. I get up after 6am ish and look after Liam all morning so DH sleeps in until 11-12. I'm a VERY lucky woman!

Leyla - nice to see you back! Those nights are sounding a bit rough! I hope you get some support in the day so you can take a break and a nap. Well done on the rolling & sitting - Liam's trying to sit up all the time, but he's not rolling yet. I think the bulky MCN don't help this though! We often say that Liam's doing a pigeon impersonation with his strange language!!

Sarah - Can't help you with the AF business I'm afraid. Not back on the pill yet (will talk to Dr in Aug about this) and we haven't DTD yet so no risk here!

Ness - Poor MJ. Those coughs suck! I hope it won't bother her (or you) too much and it goes away quite quickly.

Steph - I hear you on the clothes! I ordered a wooly jumper and some tracky daks from Ezibuy and went for the larger sizes just in case! Don't care if they're baggy as long as they fit (most of my pre-preg clothes are a bit tight or short because of more girth iykwim). Am starting a diet tomorrow - meal replacement drink for lunch and just tidy up the other stuff.. I'm sure it won't take me long (lost 18 kgs before falling preg but have it all back now )

Hi to everyone else!

[Beatrix]

Hmmm interesting..

Mj must be lazy as she isnt rolling yet... oh well the longer she stays still the better

She still has a nasty cough but other then that its ok, wish she would cheer up and little, looks so sad still

Layla- sorry hun cant help you with the naps, Mj falls asleep anywhere as long as she is wrapped.


We dont really have a bed time routine here, we dont have have any routine at all with Mj. I just do what she wants when she wants

[Leyla]

Sarah - Thanks for the advice. I've told myself I'm going to wait till he is 6 months old before attempting CC and am trying to get a copy of NCSS in the mean time. But if thing gets too desperate I'll do whatever I have to.

Nettie - LOL on the pigeon language. Its so cute when they discover a new noise. They are so pleased with themselves! Unfortunately I'm on my own at home from 6am till 7pm. So not much rest for me. You are a lucky lady with the night feeds!

Beatrix - I'd say that MJ is perfectly normal with the rolling. They are only supposed to start rolling at around 4-5 months. I'd rather have a baby that sleeps through than one that rolls early! Jack is not actually able to sit on his own yet, but is struggling to sit up and if I put my fingers out to him will pull himself up and look all smug! So cute.

Last night was ok. He always goes to sleep no problems, its the waking constantly thats the problem.

8pm- feed and sleep
9pm - feed
11.30pm - dummy
12.30am - dummy return
1am - pattting
1.30am - feed
2am - patting
2.30am - patting and dummy
3am - patting to no avail so into mummy's bed
5am - feed
7.30am - feed
8.30am - up for the day

I decided to see if he was really hungry or not, hence all the patting and dummy returns. I also suspect that he was a little cold last night as he really stopped fussing once he was under the warm covers with me.
Anyhow, I'm wondering if I am not giving him enough, does anyone know if it would be worth trying some farex mixed with breastmilk?

[alittlegrubi]

Leyla The farex discussion has been had in the later half of the month group and they all say it makes little to no difference to the sleep pattern.
I've found with DD that she wakes heaps and I was thinking that it was feeding she wanted as she was always willing to take the boob, but worked out after my Mum had her for a night and she slept from 8pm to 2am and then until 6.20am that the problem was wind. Do you take the time to burp DS after a feed? I was too lazy, she was asleep from the feed and I didn't want to wake her, but now if I burp her and then give her a quick topup to resettle she sleeps much better, when we haven't got other issues going on.
I must admit though, after midnight I will bring her into the bed with me and agree with Fire that part of it is they just want to be with you. Like last night, because I'm trying to get DS to sleep in his room rather than the nursery I started out the night in his room and when I went in and got DD for her 11pm feed, her little eyes lit up when I picked her up and took her to the bed. Putting her back in the cot only lasted an hour an a half, where having her in the bed from 12.30am onwards tends to make for better sleep as even if she stirs I'm not having to fully waken to attend to her.
Rest assured Leyla you're not the only one and with DS he wasn't sleeping through until he was over 18months and from 14 months he was on formula and solids, so i doubt farex makes a difference. All babies are different remember that and know whatever works for you is the right thing.

[Fire]

Leyla,

Human children are designed (whether you believe by millions of years of evolution, or by God, it doesn't matter) -- to nurse *very* frequently, based on the composition of the milk of the species, the fact that all higher primates (Primates are the zoological Order to which humans belong, higher primates include monkeys and apes) keep their offspring in the mother's arms or on her back for several years, the size of the young child's stomach, the rapidity with which breast milk is digested, the need for an almost constant source of nutrients to grow that huge brain (in humans, especially), and so on. By very frequently, I mean 3-4 times per hour, for a few minutes each time. The way in which some young infants are fed in our culture -- trying to get them to shift to a 3-4 hour schedule, with feedings of 15-20 minutes at a time, goes against our basic physiology. But humans are very adaptable, and some mothers will be able to make sufficient milk with this very infrequent stimulation and draining of the breasts, and some children will be able to adapt to large meals spaced far apart. Unfortunately, some mothers don't make enough milk with this little nursing, and some babies can't adjust, and so are fussy, cry a lot, seem to want to nurse "before it is time" and fail to grow and thrive. Of course, usually the mother's body is blamed -- "You can't make enough milk" -- rather than the culturally-imposed expectation that feeding every 3-4 hours should be sufficient, and the mother begins supplementing with formula, which leads to a steady spiral downward to complete weaning from the breast.

Sleeping through the Night
From:
Kathy Dettwyler's Thoughts on Breastfeeding
She is a very informed, experienced, nurturing anthropologist. The mainstream info we are given is largely incorrect. It started back when the Spocks of the child psych front insisted mothers "schedule" feeds, as bottle fed infants could go three to four hours and schedules were all the rage. However, back then (in my mother's day) many women couldn't breastfeed and couldn't figure out why, but it was the scheduling. Their kids were hungry and frustrated and their cries plugged up with a pacifier or rocking. Unfortunately, bfing goes hand in hand with cosleeping, otherwise long stints apart are essential to maintain sanity. I couldn't "Get up" all night to Ci! I'd die. So would all the other parents I know who don't pacify artificially or practise isolated sleeping.

I know it isn't much comfort to know it is normal while all our friends get all these chunks of sleep! I was very angry when I first learned and felt ripped off, like it was a secret kept from me until it was too late.

Night feeds are essential to keep infertile, too, for natural child spacing. Our milk is low fat, low protein, built for frequent feeds until solids are introduced. Even that won't change it that much for some babies.

from same site:

Is this convenient for parents? No!

Is this difficult for some new parents to adjust to? Yes!

No doubt about it, the gap between what our culture teaches us to expect of the sleep patterns of a young child (read them a story, tuck them in, turn out the light, and not see them again for 8 hours) and the reality of how children actually sleep if healthy and normal, yawns widely.

But the first steps to dealing with the fact that your young child doesn't sleep through the night, or doesn't want to sleep without you is to realize that:

* (1) Not sleeping through the night until they are 3 or 4 years of age is normal and healthy behavior for human infants.
* (2) Your children are not being difficult or manipulative, they are being normal and healthy, and behaving in ways that are appropriate for our species.

Once you understand these simple truths, it becomes much easier to deal with parenting your child at night. Once you give up the idea that you must have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep at night, and view these nighttime interactions with your child as precious and fleeting, you get used to them very quickly.

BB has this on CC: the con of controlled crying

controlled comforting and sleep training

Trust your gut, hon. It will get better. I got Ci to go from waking hourly to waking two hourly to now waking three hourly (except from about 4am, when most babies start a feeding frenzy, which is, again - NORMAL ) by upping my intake of good oils and adjusting a few things in our daily life. How does he feed through the day? Is he taking in most of his feed at night? I have some other suggestions but I have to fly. This is what Ci does now:

Last feed at 6/7pm
may sleep/wake until 8/9pm - stays asleep all night, feeds while sleeping
feed at 11/12am (4 to 5 hours since last feed)
feed 2/3am (3 hours since last feed)
feed 4am (about 1.5/ 2 hours since last feed)
off and on from then on, sometimes he will sleep until 6 though.

Since my supply settled, he is getting more fatty milk also. He was living on sugary foremilk for the first few months of his life as I had such a massive supply. He wasn't getting the fatty stuff which helps longer sleep.

This too shall pass. Can you get a daytime nap? will he nap with you so you can get some day sleep?

[Fire]

cross post

I also suspect that he was a little cold last night as he really stopped fussing once he was under the warm covers with me.

he may just want to be with you. who wouldn't? If all he gets of you at night is a hold while breastfeeding then that's what he'll take. He won't stop wanting you just because it's night time.

Warmth to you, I know your struggle. It's very hard to release to acceptance. I'm Gnostic, so this has been a wonderful opportunity to learn some virtues I sorely lack!

[Beatrix]

Leyla- in regards to the feeding through the night MJ does it, 2-3 feeds a night but she sleep uch better in bed with me and i get alot more slep with her there too

In regards to baby food, its not recomended that babies have it b4 6 mths as their stomachs are just not mature enough to handle it, and it more often then not results in a restless baby from a stomach ache. All bubs needs for the first 6mths of there life is BM or formula



Yeah i know Mj is normal to be honest i am not to good with tummy time cause if i leave her on the floor she gets poked and prodded and yeah ends up getting upset cause the older two just cant help themselves

[Leyla]

Fire and Beatrix - thanks so much for all the info and encouragement. To be honest, I'm managing with the tiredness as best I can, and I never really felt that he was abnormal until people started telling me he was. All the other mums at my mothers group have their babies 'sleeping through' and made me feel that Jack is abnormal. I know i should not let them get to me, but it does. You've really made me feel so much better. It just seems like I'm the only one with a baby that wants to feed all night!