Babies Born June 1st - 15th 2008

[amyhunz]

Hi all,

Just wanted to pop in and offer some encouragment to you Kim. I too tested positive for PND and was prescribed AD. I haven't as yet filled the script because I want to pursue meetings with a psyc first. I'm booked to start those in early Dec. I can't imagine how hard it must be to get out of the house when you have other children to take care of as well. My PND has been related to the lack of support I've had since Gracie's birth. We were living in a very remote farming community miles from family and friends when I had her. Our local Dr was the Flying Doctors! We've just moved again to a slightly bigger, but still country town, so I'm going through the process of finding new friends/ support network again!

I was married, quit full time work, moved to the country, had a baby, moved again - all in less than 2 years. Anyway, just wanted to say I hope that you can talk to someone like a counsellor who can validate your feelings.

Lots of love!!!

[MummyPig]

Hi girls!

I haven't been online all week and just saw your posts Kim and Amy. I suffered from clinical depression for many, many years and was concerned I was going to suffer PND. Although I am escaping it so far, I can really sympathise with what you are both going through.

When I was depressed my emotions were a total roller-coaster - I'd be ecstatic, then I'd burst into tears for no reason. I would have a right go at my poor hubbie, but it was like I was looking down on myself and their was this little sane voice going "what are you doing?!", yet I couldn't stop myself. I was constantly tired and couldn't get myself out of bed. Nor did I want to have to socialise with anyone other than my hubby, and that was mostly a desire for comfort hugs constantly, which I would cry and take personally if he didn't oblige!

I cannot imagine how you are both managing to cope with those feelings when you have children, especially babies, to care for and I think you must be the strongest, bravest women around.

My hubbie is away right now (2 weeks with work ) and I am missing his support in the evenings. Freyja has decided that going to sleep is not for her if there's no daddy to tuck her in and read her bedtime story, so it takes me a couple of hours to get her down. I have no 'me' time and I'm at the end of a really nasty chesty cough I've had for 2 weeks, so rundown and exhausted. Plus she is up a minimum of 3 times a night for feeds, so I never get more than 4-5 hours a night.

Today she was tired before 10am, I put her down and spent the 3 hours until 1pm resettling and trying every trick in the book to get her to sleep - I may chop her hands off as everytime she rubs her eyes, she knocks her dummy out and the screaming starts anew!

For a while before we came to Oz I was convinced that the baby didn't like me, as my hubbie could calm her instantly and I couldn't. When we were 2 hours into todays screaming session, with no let up in sight, I felt that again and could feel myself getting angry with her and my voice starting to raise. I felt so awful I sat there with her thrashing around in my arms, screaming and contorting, her little face looking at me as if she was begging me to help her, and I bawled my eyes out.

Now she is calm, asleep, I've had my lunch and am sitting in the back-garden on the laptop, listening to the cicada's and feel relaxed.

Miranda is right - even if you can't bring yourselves to socialise yet, get outside and play with the kids, even if it's just to sit and read to them or chat, go for a short walk and marvel at the trees, the birds, the twenty million Aussie ants running around like they're on speed, or go for a coffee with the bub - just sit by the window in the coffee shop and watch people. In the UK, it's common for hospitals to run regular 'pram-walks' where you can help combat PND by going for a walk with your baby and a group of other parents. I wonder if they have anything like that near you guys?

I joined a mother's group, but don't feel like I fit in as I joined months later than it started, I am the only person from the UK, they're all young (I'm only 32 but they're in the early 20s most of them!), plus I can't drive so it can be a long walk to get there and I just can't be bothered making the effort when we have nothing in common.

Instead, I walk into town twice a week and have lunch in a little Italian coffee shop. I really enjoy the walk (bar the flies!) and Freyja is usually asleep by the time we get there. If not, I have a walk around the shops with her until she is. Then I get 40mins to sit, eat my lunch, read a book, watch the shoppers, have a coffee and just chill.
Then we do a bit more wandering around (I enjoy chatting more to the woman in the pet shop or in the 2nd hand baby store than the mother's group!), before we head home and Freyja normally has her 2nd sleep.

The fresh air, sunlight and exercise do me good, I don't have to socialise if I don't feel like it, I get to have a good meal and a hot cup of coffee (for a change!) and Freyja actually has a daytime nap. Works well for us, so maybe worth a go?

[amyhunz]

I had to laugh as I was reading your post! My emotions are exactly how you described...calm one minute, phyco the next!!! My poor husband - what he must think sometimes! I'm blessed to have such a great partner and support.

Decided I need to get out more so I joined a Gymbaroo class today and I'm trying out a Mother's Group tomorrow. Didn't enjoy PlayGroup much last week - no one talked to me and there were no other babies. Anyway, that's ok. Gymbaroo was great so I think I'll stick with that.

Sounds like Freyja is a party animal or a socialite maybe?? :-) Gracie's day sleeps can vary but she's doing solid nights so I really can't complain. Getting that sleep makes the days managable.

Anyway, thanks for your post!

[amyhunz]

Hi everyone,
Can I take a quick survey to see how much sleep your bubs do in the day?

I'm trying to figure out if I'm expecting too much sleep of my LO. At the moment, her awake time is still only about 1.5hrs, obviously more if we're out and about. Her total day sleep can vary between 3hrs and 5hrs depending on the happenings of the day. I supposed a normal day if we stay at home is 4-4.5hrs. She's taking longer to settle off to sleep over the past couple of days and I'm wondering if it's a phase or whether I need to extend her 'up' time (???)

Would love to know what your LO's are doing! Thanks...

[MummyPig]

Hi Amy

Day time sleep is something I'm interested in too. I understand that all babies have different patterns (if they have them at all!), some are really good nappers, some are terrible, some sleep in only batches of 40 mins (one sleep cycle) and others will sleep for hours apparently. I've read it should be on average 15 hours sleep out of 24, with 10 at night and the rest during the day in naps. Obviously that varies by baby and day to day. Also, I've read that for some people keeping their babies awake longer works, but for others it just leads to an overtired baby and an overstressed mum.

How are we ever supposed to know if what we're doing is right?

I've spent a few weeks trying to track her sleepy times and all I can tell is that Freyja is one of the crappy nappers. She tends to sleep for 40mins IF you can even get her down. Some days, no matter how tired she is or how well you read her sleepy cues, she just will not go to sleep. I have had many days were most of it was spent dealing with a screaming, overtired baby who is hyperalert and still won't go to sleep.

Occassionally I will be able to resettle her. More often than not she will seem to be completely wide awake and playful when I go through, so I think, "ooh, she's had enough sleep for once!", then within a few minutes it becomes obvious that she is still tired and I have to deal with her being grumpy until I cam try and put her down again.

She tends to need to sleep after being awake for an hour and a half like you mention Grace does, but sometimes it's only 40 mins, others she can go several hours and these periods don't seem to relate to how much napping she's done. Although the longer periods do tend to coincide with us being out and about, or her daddy being home. Very occassionally, perhaps once a week at most, she will sleep for several hours at a time - it's bliss!!

I was told yesterday by another mum that her daughter was crap at napping until they upped her solids to 3 meals a day, including a big brekkie. Freyja had a big brekkie today, which she loved, but it made no difference to her sleeping. She woke up at 6am today and has only had two 40 min naps since, despite a cumulative total of several hours of trying to get her to sleep.

Also, since Freyja learnt how to turn onto her tummy, settling her day or night have been impossible. She will just be nodding off when all of a sudden, she turns onto her tum for no reason and then of course she starts howling. She also now seems to favour sleeping on her side - all the easier for turning onto her tum accidentally! At least it has allowed us to start patting her bum to help her settle (give that a go btw, I was amazed at how well it works), rather than allowing her to hold our hands to her face and pat herself on the head with them. She has a death like grip so you're there for the duration when she does that.

Problem is, no matter how good your baby is at napping or night sleeping, it all goes out the window when they hit a development point - I'm now convinced Freyja is having a 6 month long one!

Freyja is now going to sit in her high chair and watch mummy doing the housework because she is still awake. Perhaps I can bore her to sleep?

[amyhunz]

Hi Kerry,

Thanks so much for your reply. I know what you mean about the confusion re: are we doing it right?!! Don't you just wish they could tell you when they're tired!!

Well, a few people have told me that kids that need less sleep are often intelligent so maybe you have a genious on your hands :-)

I think with Gracie I've developed a thick skin of late. Sometimes it can take up to an hr for her to settle and these days I just go about doing whatever. When she was younger, I'd sit nervously waiting with baited breathe to see if she was going to settle to sleep and then at the 40min mark pray that she didn't wake completely. Ohh...how we traumatise ourselves! These days I just go with it a bit more. If she wakes at 40mins, I leave her for up to 30mins (unless she's screaming the house down which she rarely does) and then if she doesn't re-settle I get her up and make sure I put her to bed 1.5hrs (or less) the next time.

At night, if she wakes, I go in and check her and if she's not hot/cold, out of her wrap, head up against the bars, etc then I leave her. Sometimes it can take an hr for her to re-settle but patting, rocking etc never worked for her.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what the others have to say...thanks for affirming that sleeping is different for every bub and isn't easy!!

[Mirandabelle]

Zeke is a fairly average napper, he has 2 or 3 short naps during the day that last about 30-45mins and a longish one that is about 1-2 hours. I just kinda go with the flow and start trying to get him down when he is tired. When all else fails I just feed him and snuggle... at least that way he is resting.

When he wakes at night, it's usually for food so he eats, and goes straight back to sleep... which is fantastic, he's rarely up for more than 20 minutes!

I've been packing a bit more into his days now, so he's sleeping a little longer for naps... but has made no improvement on the night sleeping, which is what I'm really trying to work on, at least dropping the 2am feed. He doesn't really seem to want it, so I'm just trying to comfort him first, and most of the time it's working, occasionally he is still hungry, but most of the time he's woken out of pure habit... cheeky boy!