Do you believe in evolution or what your holy book says?

[Arcadia]

Tashybabe, you speak my thoughts exactly. I loved that series!

I was just about to ask people's reaction to the genetic theories about common ancestry dating back to Africa. I think the genetic support for evolutionary theory is quite compelling, by tracing mtDNA.

[Turkish Delight]

Okay ladies.... Can we change the topic? I have another question to ask, which i have been meaning to ask for ages, but i thought it might offend people. If you are offended...i am deeply sorry.

Muhammed (PBUH) died of natural causes (old age). Muhammed (M) battled in many holy wars during his life, and all his followers protected him. I just wanted to ask, why didn't Jesus' followers stand up for him and allowed him to be crucified?

[butterfly_warrior]

The simplistic answer is that if Jesus wasn't cricified, then he would not have been able to rise from the dead.

I guess there's so many questions on that topic and I guess the simple answer is that it was necessary to fulfill God's plan.

When Jesus was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane one of the disciples picked up a sword and chopped off the ear of one of the soldiers - Jesus told him to put the sword away. The relevant passage in the bible if you want to look it up is found in Matthew 26.

BW

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Fair question TD

At the time, I guess they just weren't strong enough in their belief that he was the Messiah. Don't forget, for many years they had been 'shepherded' by spiritual leaders who placed more importance on position and status than the spiritual needs of the people. When Jesus came, he displayed them as the power hungry, selfish men they were, and they didn't like it. By this time they had such a strong hold on the people that it wouldn't have taken much to turn a crowd against him. I believe that the people who follow the Jewish faith today don't believe Jesus was the Messiah.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the account of the Hebrews leaving Egypt, but even after witnessing the 10 plagues, as well as the miraculous parting of the Red Sea, the Hebrews still continued to forget Jehovah, which is why He ended up leaving them. So instead of having the fleshly nation of Israel, He instituted the spiritual Israel, and this time only those who chose it became His.

But long story short, what BW said

[Dedicated Doula Gillian]

TD - recommend the dvd or book
"The Case for Christ" - Lee Strobel

[Epacris]

Hey TD, what are you doing, I've only just joined this thread and now it's gone way off where I was at... and I hadn't finished.

What I really want to say is, what I find so puzzling, as a scientist, is that science keeps getting drawn into all this religion stuff. Like I said, as a scientist, out in the field, in the practical application of our knowledge, based on Darwin's theory of evolution, religion doesn't even enter into it. It is completely irrelevant. There are no "alternative" ideas. Science is science and religion is religion. Science is absolutely not a form of religion, it's science.

I think atheists (which I guess I am calling a type of religion) in their arguments with religion have used science to counter creationism (and other ideas of that sort). And of course I am totally opposed to the teaching of creationism in science, it's not science it's religion. I am passionate about freedom of religion, by all means teach and believe whatever you want to believe, I fully support your in that (unless you're a destructive cult, but that's another thread).... in religion. But any religious teachings, in my humble but very passionate opinion, have no place in science.

Oh OK, I just thought I'd add, I had a quick conservation with DH, who is also a scientist/ecologist (see I do live and breathe this stuff all day every day )and he doesn't agree with me on this at all... so just reiterating again, this is just my personal opinion.

[Nelle]

Rachel with the whole Science is Science and Religion is Religion thing - my faith is sort of different to that. It's more a world view. My faith in God is how I understand the world. It's not something I DO, it's how I think and see things, my context. So I learn about science, but always God is my context.
No idea if that makes sense. It's late at night after a long day.

Peg - your statement that Jesus was an angel gets me curious - what do you base that on?

And TD, cool question, but probably the others have basically covered it - Jesus needed to die, if he was going to pay the punishment for sin (which is what the bible teaches happened). Plus I like the idea that his followers were very human - they were afraid of dying too. Would I have stood up for Jesus if I might have died...I'm not sure. Certainly afterwards many of Jesus' disciples ended up dying because of what they shared about him. But it gives me encouragement that I can chicken/freak out sometimes and still go on to do good stuff.

[sneakysparkle]

actually TD they did!
Matthew 26:50-54 in the bible says -

50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

and also in Luke 22

49When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

51But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

oops - was typing as BW posted!!

[Peg]

Muhammed (PBUH) died of natural causes (old age). Muhammed (M) battled in many holy wars during his life, and all his followers protected him. I just wanted to ask, why didn't Jesus' followers stand up for him and allowed him to be crucified?

One thing you may not understand about Jesus is that before he was a man, he was a heavenly angel....Gods foremost angel....Gods first created being. From heaven, God sent Jesus to earth to be born as a man in order to sacrifice himself.

His sole purpose was to die for the sins of mankind so that mankind could be reunited with God. So, Jesus would not have wanted his followers to try and save him, rather he allowed himself to be unjustly convicted of a crime he did not commit in order to achieve his purpose.

This is why christians are told that thru their faith in Jesus sacrifice, they can gain salvation. That salvation is spoken about by Mohammad, you would know of it as 'paradise' The bible also speaks of it as a paradise, but one that will be established right here on earth by Gods doing.