Oh i've got that thing where in your head a concept is very clear but in trying to word it it turns to mud....

I think i can't see that "good" and "thanks" are that different to a small child because both are equally subjective. There are plenty of things DD does for me that i'd thank her for that i KNOW my MIL for example would tell her off for attempting. She's not doing anything differently at all, but one of us would praise and the other admonish. People value and appreciate different things, how do we teach kids to cope with this?

I think young children ALL seek approval because we are social animals. That means we need to stay mostly out of trouble within our groups to survive. I know my DD will do and say things to me, DP and XP she wouldn't DREAM of risking with someone else because she's more secure in our love and behaviour patterns. But we're the safety pen where she gets to try out all the various social niceties (and not!) before the big bad world judgement.

I do think that by the time a person is maybe an older teen they can tell and appreciate the difference between arbitrary approval and grateful thanks, and i don't particularly like the use of "good boy/girl" to the OMISSION of proper thanks when deserved because "good/bad" seems a very binary and total judgement (i.e. it's easier to understand gran doesn't appreciate something that mama DOES appreciate than in gran's house you're a bad person and in mama's you're a good person), but i just have this feeling that for DD anyway, ATM approval from me is valuable for her and it makes little difference whether it's passing kiss and "You're my good kid" just because or a big thankyou cuddle because she put all her toys away.

I think Ryn said up above that sporadic praise seems in studies to have the most desireable outcomes..? I can see that being the case - without thanks every task MIGHT well become motivated by the need to hear that one is "good" or "bad" but surely without that random praise and compliments a child might begin to feel THEY are only worth what they can do for others? It's a bit chicken and egg. I suppose i want DD to know that she's great just being herself, and that part of that is because she's so helpful, but also because she's cheerful, funny, affectionate, smart and beautiful and because i just ADORE her even when she's just sitting watching Night Garden doing nothing. I often tell her what good hugs she gives me, how much i like having her around, how her smile makes me smile too and how infectious her giggle is. You will frequently hear me say to her, after she has begun hitting mid-tantrum, that i love her no matter how hard she hits, even when the hitting makes me sad. Once she said, in my arms after calming down and quietly stroking my cheek better after slapping it several times, "mama doesn't LIKE a hitting, but mama LOVES a DD". I hope we can keep our current level of understanding.

Bx