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Thread: why won't she sleep?

  1. #1
    tiggy Guest

    Default why won't she sleep?

    I'm going to post this in a few places but I'm hoping that someone might be able to give me some ideas and or help because I am at my wits end with Ivy.

    Ivy has never been very good with sleeping. She does have issues.She was born at 30 weeks, with residual apnoeas. (Normal for prems).She has had reflux since she was 3 months old and has been on Losec for just about as long, although we are trying to wean her off it now, as a side effect is stomach cramps. She is an allergic baby, with lots of sensitivities to food. She is allergic to cows milk. She has eczema and asthma (although the asthma is only exacerbated when she is unwell). She has recurrent middle ear infection and we are going to see an ENT at the end of March for probable grommets. So all these things could be a factor as to why she never sleeps.
    I know she is overtired. I know I am too. I have been to the GP and to the paed, who have given me bad jokes, a prescription for myself for a block of chocolate and a good cry and easy cliches' all of which are unhelpful.

    Also, Lily, my now 8 year old daughter was a poor sleeper until the age of three, so I had no expectations of babies sleeping through at all, but her wake ups were easy. She settled well, despite waking up and often, it was just reassurance that Mummy and Daddy were there. Ivy's sleep or lack there of, is a totally different ball game.

    Here is Ivy's usual day/night pattern over a 24hour period.

    4am - 5am - wake up, have a bottle, start the day.

    6am, we're usually up out of bed because I can't listen to her complain in her cot anymore or I am over her climbing all over me in bed, kicking, scratching, eye gouging, rolling...you get the picture.

    By 8am she is getting tired but will not settle to sleep because the big kids are still home.

    Between 9 - 9:30 I put her down for a morning sleep. By this stage she is crying and clingy so I know she needs to sleep. Won't settle in my arms, in the cot and lately doesn't want to be touched while she is settling. Just wants me in the room.
    Sleeps for 20 minutes and will not resettle. Occasionally she will sleep for longer, up to an hour, if I am very lucky.

    Up, drink, morning tea. Play She is VERY active and doesn't stop moving the whole time she is awake but is constantly rubbing her eyes. By lunch time she is slowing down, getting grizzly again, putting her head down on the floor. I know she is tired.

    11:30 - 12 ish is usually lunch.

    At 1 - 1:30 ish I attempt her second sleep.

    I just need to pause here to let you all know that Noah has himself on a very strict routine of sleep. He goes down at 9am and sleeps until 10:30 - 11am and then again at 1:30 and usually sleeps until 2:30 - 3pm,he goes to bed at around 7:30 - 8pm at night and (most of the time)sleeps through, so I am roughly trying to get Ivy to sleep at the same times. Noah is currently asleep and Ivy is barking, like a dog, in her cot. *SIGH*

    Anyway, sometimes Ivy sleeps and sometimes she fights it and at 3pm when the kids start to come home I give up. When she sleeps, again, it is usually only 20 minutes.

    She then proceeds to grizzle and grump her way through the afternoon/evening. Sometimes she will sleep in the car when I am doing after school activities but these are rare occasions and if she does it is only while the car is in motion. As soon as we stop (even for traffic lights)she'll wake.

    As you can imagine, the dinner bath and bed routine is a total disaster. Thank goodness my other kids are older and can help me and that Noah is such an easy going baby. Still by the time it's all over, I am frazzled. Most days I put dinner on in the morning, so I don't have to cook and other little things too, that you learn along the way so that you cope with everything that goes along with having seven children. Don't get me wrong, this is NOT a complaint. I love my kids and would have more if I could. I'm just writing it all down, so you get a whole picture.

    About 7:30 is when I try to settle Ivy. By that time David is home, the big kids are settled, have been bathed, fed etc and are having their down time. Sh is usually asleep by 8pm.



    She then wakes again at 10:30 - 11pm and from there it is a constant battle to get her to resettle.
    I have had three nights when she slept through. All single occasions. All when she was very unwell, oh and a week of almost constant sleeping last July, when she was in hospital, with bronchiolitis, on oxygen.
    She doesn't just wake and cry or call out for attention. She wakes and screams like she has had a fright or something and continues the full on wails until she exhausts herself.
    Some nights are better than others.
    For the last three nights though, she has woken at 11pm, 2am and 10:30 pm for a repeat performance of what I have described above.

    Here is what we have tried so far. Some of the things are not good choices and have been last resort measures but they haven't worked either. Just so you know, I don't feel good about them but after 16 months of minimal sleep (and more before the twins' birth due to pregnancy anxiety) I am so tired I am willing to try anything.

    Over the last 16 months we have tried...

    Rocking, cuddling, singing, walking the floorboards, patting, rewrapping, leaving unwrapped, sleeping bags,Hug a bub, co sleeping, cot in our room, cot in her own room, different cot, dummy, no dummy,more fluids, checking that she's not too hot, not too cold, less food at dinner, more food at dinnerand all the self settling techniques like putting baby to bed awake and being guided by what the baby needs (eg; she'll sleep if she is tired), all the Tresillian, Karitane based techniques and here are the things that I wouldn't normally do but have over the last few months, weeks and days... controlled crying, and using a phernergan regime (advocated by the paed).

    So that's it, girls. Sorry it's so long, hope that someone can come up with something new for me to try.

    The only other thing that I have done is put her on the waiting list for the sleep unit at our tertiary hospital because I read an article that suggested that prems who had apnoeas in the neonatal period often still have them but rouse themselves. In doing so they are often frightened and disoriented and then get to a stage where they fear sleep. Don't know if that is Ivy but at this stage I want to cover all bases.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2

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    PHEW Tiff.... I'm exhausted reading about poor Ivy.... I really dont have any other suggerstions, I think you've tried them all, what about a late night warm calm bath???

    Indah woke up on Wedbnesday night & was awakje from 12 til 2:30am & I wanted to put her out with the hard rubbish!! I cant imagine how it would feel if it was almost nightly... You must be exhausted!!! As must Ivy be, I'm certain she doesnt wnat to be t5his sleep deprived either!

    All I can do is wish you tonnes of luck at the hospital & hopefully they can get her into a better sleeping pattern....

    I am really thinking of you guys!!!!! MWAH!

  3. #3

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    Tiff.... you must be truly amazing to get through all that.

    Sorry i don't have a miracle for you but a friend of mine who was at the end of her tether took her little one to an ostiopath and she worked wonders.

    Taz

  4. #4

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    How are you coping, mate? You have the night shift too atm don't you so how are you getting any sleep at all? I wish I lived closer.

    I think you've covered everything I could have thought of and more so I have no suggestions, just love and support if you need it.

    The apnoea theory seems likely reading that. Poor little thing.

    Could it be the pain from the ear infection? Have you raised the top of the cot a bit? But you said you've tried the HAB so she would have been upright then.

    I don't know sweetherat but I hope you sort it out soon.

  5. #5

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    Tiff I don't have any solution for you I'm sorry. I wish I did. It sounds like you're certainly eliminating all possible causes and trying all different techniques to find a solution. It will be interesting to see what the sleep apnoea specialists come up with. I really hope you find a workable solution soon, for both your sakes. Big hugs.

  6. #6
    tiggy Guest

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    Thanks girls.

    It's nice to just have the reassurance, truly.
    Nat. Thank you for thinking of me. The honest truth is, I am not coping well atm. Thus the cry for help post. I wish you lived closer too. Yes, her bed is raised, has been since she was a littley. It is a possibility that it is due to the ear infection. When she is acutely unwell with it she will only ever nap sitting up.

    Taz Thank you. I haven't tried an ostio but we have been going to the chiro since she was five months old with varying results. I'll look into it.

    Tracey A nice warm bath for her...or for me??? LOL. Yep, tried that too, with lavender essential oils to calm and relax. Sadly, it made me sleepy but not Ives.

    Christine - thanks. There is a 3 month waiting list for the sleep unit, so hopefully something will come of it all before that.

  7. #7

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    *hug* Tiff I don't have many answers. Matilda still wakes at night & the last week has been up for over an hour in the middle of the night just grumping and complaining about everything... Its awful & tiring and someday my child will sleep through... Matilda isn't unwell anymore, its all behavioural. But for the first year with reflux & ear infections & tonsilitis it was awful. There were days when all I did for a full 18 hours was try to settle her down. She is extremely active as well & used to have permanent scratches behind her ears where she would flail as a tired sign.

    So... nothing for you but *hugs* and the same wish as Nat, that I lived closer. I did find Brauer's Calm homeopathic drops helped for a month.... just thinking out loud now.

  8. #8
    tiggy Guest

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    Thanks Christy. It's nice to know I am not alone in this. I will get some of the brauers tonight when I take the girls to dancing. Ivy is asleep for the first time today, now. She has been asleep for ten minutes!

  9. #9

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    Oh Tiggy.....I feel for you!! I posted a thread here when I first signed up about DD not going to sleep.....Christy was a godsend!!! But that was nothing compared to your issues!! I wish I could help but you sound like you have ehausted all the avenues I would suggest, but the sleep clinic and the anonea's sound like possible solutions. All I can say is i wish you the very best......you are a brave lady....with 7 children too!! You deserve a medal!! Keep us all posted, I'll be thinking of you!

    P.S I have tried the brauers too.....didn't help too much for us but it's worth a shot!

  10. #10

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    Tiggy you poor thing, I was thinking Brauers too. you can give four doses in 2 hours so prob best to give around 5.30, 6, 6.30 and 7pm. I do find it good. Worth a try I suppose.
    I honestly and truly think you are a most amazing mother and person in general. I absolutely admire you. I lose it when coco wakes at night so I can only imagine how your sleep deprivation must be. I think the sleep aponea sounds like it could be linked, and I just hope you can get into the hospital asap.
    thinking of you and here for you to vent to. Sorry Im not much more use than that. xoxoxo

  11. #11

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    OMG Christy (sorry for hijacking Tiff)
    But Indah's ears are the same, behind her ears are all scartched & red from where she scratches & pulls on them, which are her tired signs with rubbing her hair..

    She gets SUPER sweaty too & so her skin behind her ears is often sweaty so must itch as well, plus Maddy brought a few LICE home which Indah was rampant with at 1 stage, then she got an ear infection so her nape of her neck & behind her ears are raw!!!


    OOOh Bummer Tiff about the bath, only thing I can suggest is a bottle of wine & a box of choc's sit up with her share, cry, laugh & love together!! HEE HEE Jusdt kidding!

  12. #12
    tiggy Guest

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    Thanks, Meg. I'm sure you'll hear all about it! Sometimes, venting is all I can do to stay sane.

    Thanks Becstar. Is your daughter a better sleeper now? PLEASE give me some hope, LOL.

    Trace, mmm, some wine, might help her...I mean me sleep better!! LOL.

  13. #13

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    Oh Tiff, you poor love. It can't be easy either when the Dr's etc can't come up with a solution and you have tried everything you can think of. The sleep unit sounds like a good plan, but it is a shame you have to wait so long - I hope the problem gets better before then.

    Tiff, you know I would come and give you a hand in a heartbeat if I could, if only to hold the fort while you caught up on sleep.

  14. #14
    tiggy Guest

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    Aww, thanks Sherie. It's really nice to know that you all care. I have decided I am going to bed early tonight, once I get the no- sleep wonder girl to bed, I am going there too. I am on night duty at work again on Sunday so I need to get some sleep before then.

  15. #15
    tiggy Guest

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    Thanks Fletch. They have me on the cancellation list too, so if anything comes up sooner, I'm there.

  16. #16

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    Hi Tiff -
    I can't imagine how you do it!!!! My DS is a non-sleeper but I only have him to worry about. I applaude you for managing everything that you do! I don't have any advice that hasn't been offered - though I did see something in a different post about putting epsom salt in the bath to help calm them, which I am considering trying with DS, but I can't remember where I saw it - sorry!!
    I was wondering how long Ivy slept when you finally got her to sleep this arvo. My DS is down to one nap a day and it is usually about an hour and a quarter which seems like an eternity after reading that Ivy only sleeps 20 minutes!
    Good luck getting some sleep tonight and please keep us all posted - I too - am curious to hear what you find out from the sleep study. Hang in there and know that we are all here to help - even if it is only to listen.

  17. #17
    tiggy Guest

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    Another non sleeper! Thanks Heidi for your reply.
    As I said to Christy, it's nice to know (although sad for you) that I am not alone. I think I was VERY spoilt with Ivy's big sisters and with Noah. I just don't know what to do with the Ivy girl. She is a mystery to me.

    Ivy slept another ten minutes and then she was awake, screaming.So, 20 minutes in total, after an hour and a bit of trying to get her to settle.
    It coincided with the big kids coming home from school, so who knows how long she might have slept?
    It's not so much the day sleeps, I guess, although when I get a break, it is a Godsend. It's more the night sleeping that is a worry and the fact that she is so overtired and grumpy for a large part of each day.

    I was talking to DH just before and we are going to put her angel monitor back on he matress. It alarms if there are any apnoeas but we took it off when she turned one as it seemed to go off alot. A little sleep study of our own! DH thought we might even set up the video cam to film her during the night, to see if there is anything we are missing! Perhaps going a bit too far, me thinks! LOL

  18. #18

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    Tiggy, I think the monitor is a great idea, but also the video camera may be the way to go, to see what she is doing over night.
    Good Luck, I hope you get some more sleep soon.

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