WWYD - other people's kids with challenging behaviour
Now just to clarify up front... there is NO JUDGEMENT here. The mother I am talking about is doing a stellar job under very challenging circumstances and I don't know how I'd cope in her situation. She does her best to manage her DD's behaviour but I strongly suspect that her DD has developmental (language delay and impulse-control) issues that are driving her behaviour. She's a lovely kid under the chaos and defiance and I know she doesn't 'want' to hurt my kids. I'm just trying to weigh up my own children's welfare versus the needs of a friend...
My friend, not a close one, but a friend nontheless, has a daughter the same age as my DD (3 years) and a 6 week old DS. She has absolutely been through the ringer over the past 4 years. She's a single mum, the dad is no help whatsoever, her mother has advanced cancer and she has minimal social support. Both kids have/had severe reflux and, well, her daughter is a handful to say the very least.
I really want to support her and I know she needs company. BUT... every time we have spent time with them her DD's behaviour has meant that the whole experience is extremely stressful for my kids and myself. Her DD will shove my DS (11 months) and scream in his face until he cries, snatch his food and any toy he touches. She will scream at, push and snatch from my DD... last time she upturned my DD's lunchbox all over the floor, took away everything she tried to play with, ripped up the craft she had made and was generally in her face and confrontational over everything. My DD is, for the most part, a very 'good' girl. She is pretty shy around others, tends to be cooperative and loves nothing more than playing tea parties, dress-ups or dancing with her little girlfriends. She gets so overwhelmed by my friend's daughter's behaviour that she ends up crying if she is even looked at and over the course of our visit, it builds to her getting over-sensetive and hysterical and me having to work pretty hard to keep her happy and calm. After we visit... she's revolting. She talks back to me like she's seen her little peer do to her Mum, she's moody and defiant and melodramatic... I think part of this is a reaction to the stress, and part of it is that she's interested to see what will happen if she tries on these kinds of behaviours.
Things are marginally better if we go to a play centre or park, but my friend finds that managing a newborn and her DD is too much in these environments. Her DD is prone to running away, taking huge risks, getting into trouble with other kids and refusing to leave, kicking and screaming all the way to the car.
I'm so torn. Frankly, I don't enjoy spending time with them at all and neither do my kids. I really care about my friend and want to be there for her, but don't want to stress/harm my kids in the process. I don't know if I have the courage to say to her "sorry, we can't catch up because your daughter's behaviour is too stressful for my children", and I know that this would really hurt her / further isolate her. I just don't know what to do.
Is there anyway that you can catch up with her without the kids.
I have a friend who is similar, in that both she and her kids stress my DS out. To the point that he gets very tense just hearing her voice. Just a different family dynamic they are screamers we are not.
So now when we catch up I do it without taking DS.
Does she know that you leave DS out of the equation on purpose? I could catch up with her on a weekend occasionally (though this is tricky as I work Sat and therefore Sundays are precious!) but I know she'd question why I was leaving the kids. She still hopes that our DDs will be friends and is keen for her DD to have social opportunities.
Thanks. It seems that it's pretty black and white - just see her without kids. Guess I was hoping there was a shade of grey in there I'd missed. Anyone with a little person who can be the 'challenging' one? How would you want a friend to approach it?
Really not sure how to go about broaching it with her. I'm tempted to just put it as 'I want to get to talk to you which is easier without my kids'.
You could also do it by explaining in gentle terms why you have left the kids, as a way to approach her about the behaviour that is affecting your kids - something along the lines of "I know both our DD's get a bit overexcited and hypo when the see each other" and see if that is a lead in for her to talk about it. Sounds like she is already doing a fabulous job and even if you bring it up she wouldn't know what else to do about her DD, and she probably sees it as well?? Not much help sorry Tough one hun, my DD gets super excited with her best friend around who she only sees every 6 mths or so but they just get loud and silly at worst so Im not really much help. xoxo
My son was the 'difficult one'. It's awful. But i know it was awful for the other mums too. After all they want to protect their children first and foremost. He is/was different to the little girl you describe, but still a handful in his own way. I would always acknowledge it though, and never pretend to others that it wasn't happening.
I can't tell you what to do because each situation is so very individual. But i do think that if it was me, in my shoes, i'd know why you suddenly wanted to meet sans kidlets. And i'd feel embarrassed. But, it would still be nice too. I think we all know children go through stages and phases, and it's nice to know that we can still have mum friends who don't judge us too harshly or want to cut ties altogether.
Hopefully you can keep being a friend to her, but you'll know when it's the right time to reintroduce the kids to the mix - or not at all. FWIW my son was a super star today and played for nearly 2 hours without me intervening once! It was amazing, and we both went home stress free and happy.
My DS has been described as "hard work" and "challenging". And yes, he can exhibit these bad behaviours. But I don't ignore it. DS is stomped on. I encourage him to be himself and enjoy life, but be mindful of others and a young gentleman. If he threw food, tore up others' work and made a baby cry, I would be having serious words and DS would sort out the consequences. What is the mother doing about her daughter's behaviour? Sounds like very little or your DD wouldn't be trying it on for your reaction. (And why are you ignoring this too? I have no qualms in telling other children off if they're upsetting my DS, just as I'd tell of DS for upsetting another child.)
But then that's part of the reason I didn't have a baby to deal with when he was younger!
Is she aware that her DD is like this? What does she do when her DD is being awful to your DD, does she say anything? If not i think its probably best to some how gently tell her. Its an issue she will face when her DD hits school, if its not stomped on now then she will have even more challenging behaviour to deal with later on.
I find it hard to keep my thoughts to myself. I have a friend with a DS who is almost 5 who can be very rough and quite mean to my DD and i find myself snapping at him and saying no a lot to him. My friend as far as i am aware doesn't have an issue with it.
Starfish and Sararose - I do like this idea. She doesn't know any of my friends but I could just organise a general get together. It would probably mean that I would get barely any time to talk to her if I was 'hosting' though as I would be looking after everyone else and the kids. Might diffuse things a bit at a park though and give her DD some more 'boistrous' kids to play with. Formal playgroup's not so much an option as our schedule's pretty packed already.
Lenny - thanks for sharing your story. I was really keen to hear the other side. I know that it'll probably hurt but I'm hopeful that, like you, she'll understand and know that I'm trying to maintain the friendship. I hope so much that she can say the same about her DD too... that the behaviour was 'past tense' and she's much happier and more relaxed in the future. Good on your DS for a great play today!
TFB & LMS - yes, she is well aware of the behaviour and does her best to discipline her DD. I don't agree with all her methods but respect that she's doing what she thinks is best and she does intervene and provide consequences every time. Her DD spent about a third of our visit in her room and her Mum did try re-directing her frequently. I too was trying to position myself between her DD and my kids / her DS and followed through with the consequences / feedback her Mum is electing to use a few times myself when her Mum was making lunch etc. I appreciate that I left the details of the management of the behaviour out - I didn't feel that it was relevant to my question - but TBH, I feel a bit put out to be asked why I was ignoring the behaviour. I don't ignore when my children are in harms way. It was sheer chaos and not all the behaviours could be anticipated and prevented. My friend's DS wailed in my arms for a good part of the visit too as he has reflux and is also probably feeling the stress from Mum and his sister and her DD was quick and all over the place - smiling at my DS one minute and screaming in his face the next.
I'm not sure this behaviour can or should be be 'stomped on'. I personally think a thorough assessment and Psych and Speechie intervention is actually in order - I have gently suggested this some time ago but it seems she's not ready to go there or wants to handle it her way.
I'm wondering if you can also try the preemptive strike - before anything goes wrong asking her DD not to touch your little one. And praising the heck out of her when she does keep her distance. I think lots of kids respond to requests from people that aren't their parents much more than they take notice of a parent.
WWYD - other people's kids with challenging behaviour
I have a similar situation except I don't have kids and it's my besties DD, who generally is good but doesn't often have anyone tell her no.
She's in child care 5 days, my friends DH picks up DD, and by the time my friend gets home from work, she gets an hour or so with DD. Its the weekends when we seem to catch up that my friend will be with her DD, my friend seems to become relieved that I'm there and kind of hands her DD over to me, to discipline. I have never at any time indicated that I know better, it is interfering with our friendship, and I'm sure my friend knows it as quite often she'll try to justify her DD's behavior.
I know her DD is lacking in direction, she is a clever, smart child, but has a temper which can be testing, and often she acts out on objects or smaller children if she doesn't get attention.
I have tried pointing out to my friend, examples of my niece and nephews behaviors and what has worked etc, but my friend is her own worst enemy! She'll often distract DD with chocolate, just to avoid her DD throwing a tantrum.
I'm not sure if I'm helping here, prob more relating to your thread, but I guess if it was me, I'd rather hear it from someone close to me than a teacher, or another parent saying my child had hurt someone!
I will stalk the thread to see what solutions you are offered...
WWYD - other people's kids with challenging behaviour
Just reading back,
Maybe try a sleepover, I know it sounds crazy, but it sounds like the other child needs to see how things are run in your house!
Then you'd always have a reference for that child, to relate their behavior too.
So when the child is being aggressive, you could say something like, Name, do you remember when you were at my house, and you and (your DD) played nicely?
ITMS?
Ok well first off im sorry your in this place. Second sadly...I am the mother of "That child" yep the one always doing something wrong,always pushing it just that bit more always hurting some eles child( cringe) always hurting his brother ect ect you get the idea.
Honestly i would appreciate if my friend was honest with me. Yes its upsetting,yes it would make me sad and maybe some what defencive but i would be so grateful for the honesty. Ild also love to hear like you have said here that you know and have seen that i am trying to teach said child right and wrong as that would make the sting a lil less. I would like that you still wanted to see me.
Maybe during that you could lightly press the subject of maybe seeing if she would ask the pead to have a look into what may be causing the behaviour maybe say your worried if it goes on it will affect her dds friendships(trust me it will be hard for her).
I hope you work out what you would like to do. Just dont be to hard on her from a mum whom is most ashamed of the things her child has done.It makes you feel that everyone is thinking what a bad mum you are when sometimes its not that its an underlining medical condition. best of luck hun.
WWYD - other people's kids with challenging behaviour
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Tough one hun, my DD gets super excited with her best friend around who she only sees every 6 mths or so but they just get loud and silly at worst so Im not really much help. xoxo
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