DIY Deliveries: More Women Go It Alone (US)

[Phteven]

TBH I don't think that midwives are expensive. Try and find another professional who has had the years of training and education that most independant midwives have who will only charge you around 4k for ongoing support (including unlimited phone calls), home visits before (usually an hour each visit), education (including the loan of texts and DVDs) and after labour (up to 6 weeks) and be on call for a midnight call-out if nessescary then stay for a shift that could be in excess of 12 hours.

If you pay for an ob and a private hospital stay you're looking at at least twice that and often more.

ETA - Yes they should be free but I don't think it's fair to complain about how expensive they are when most of them charge the bare minimum and less than they deserve. Feel free to complain about the government not supporting midwifry - I'll support you but it really bugs me when people assume that midwives shouldn't have the right to charge adequately for thier services. We expect every other proffession to recieve recompense for thier skills so why is it that midwives are supposed to do it for love.

[paradise lost]

But that's still 4k more than a public hospital Ob birth Dach. I think midwives should be well-paid but i don't see why a woman should have to pay out of pocket for a birth which would actually be cheaper to the state than the one they will provide. Good maternity care would have provision for homebirths and midwives but i suspect that as is the case here in the UK it is easier to regulate hospital births, thus they paper over the cracks of staffing problems, insurance issues and costs by only offering the most regulatable option for free.

Bx

[Phteven]

I totally agree that homebirth should be a free option if hospital birth is.
Maybe I wasn't clear about that.
It's just that I keep coming across an attitude that really bugs me (not on BB) that anyone who works with birthing women should be doing it for love not money and if you want to make a profit from doing what you love then you're letting women down somehow. Like joining the birth business means you should take a vow of poverty as a symbol of the majestic awe of childbirth...

Don't mind me - I'm just having a bit of an OT spack attack. I'll go to the corner and rock back and forth for a while now :P

[s361768]

Going back to the actual article presented at the beginning of this post...

I can totally see why some (don't know stats) American women choose to DIY birth at home. Their medical system is terrible. Even in the public hospitals, I am of the belief you still come away with a bill. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

It is similar here. although I should say Australian people are lucky to have medicare and access to free health care, however that does not mean that there are holes and that all is fair. The gap between the rich and poor is great, and what health services people of diff SES backgrounds have access to is not equitable.

I guess as long as that is the case women of lower SES status will have less options in pregnancy, labour and birth.

As women I think we should be more understanding to other womans plights rather than demonizing and marginalizing them. Esp. in such a patriachal society, women should fight for other women's liberties and rights (esp. health care)

[Phteven]

I read that as meaning that Epacris had educated herself about childbirth and adopted a positive attitude towards it. That she was only referring to childbirth nothing broader.

[s361768]

I don't know if any amount of reading that I have done or could do would prevent medical intervention. Doctors generally don't listen to the women that they are treating for pregnancy, and I believe that if they appear to be they are humouring you.

A birth at home for me is to prevent this.

[paradise lost]

I don't think medical staff like midwives and nurses set out to control AT ALL, i just think that the system in which they are forced to work is so rigid that unless they do as the hopsital says they are basically on their own - like when my 1st midwife came to check me and i was 2-3cm after 11 hours of labour i know she was worried about getting home because she thought it'd be midnight before she delivered and she had to use public transport to get home (a good distance away) which stopped at 11pm. The relief when i delivered at 6.20pm was tangible from her! At hospital her shift ends when it ends so she can make provision to get home knowing when she can go, whereas on homebirth shifts she gets to go home when the birth is finished or 12 hours after she arrives - that is a RIDICULOUSLY long shift! 12 HOURS and that is from when she was called to me - she might have been near the end of an 8 hour hospital shift when i called her! I feel strongly that Midwives should be supported in their roles much better so they are ABLE to help women achieve the births they want.

Epacris, i think i get what you were trying to say, that because you have really looked at your options and know what you want your birth will be less simple to hi-jack? Sadly there are educated and determined women (i know a few) who were basically lied to during labour - i know 2 women who had induced labours and then c-sections because bubs was distressed. In one case the efm trace shows NO distress at all, and in the other the sintocin drip wasn't turned down to see if it eased the late decels before moving to section even though mum was in transition when they were happening. If an Ob tells you "i need to do a section or your baby will die" and you only later find out it wasn't true - education and determination aren't going to make any difference.

One of the reasons i wanted a homebirth is because i KNEW i wouldn't be able to fight off intervention in labour. I was too focused on the sensations in my body, too vulnerable. I chose to minimise the chance of intervention by staying at home rather than having to try to stave it off in hospital. I cannot imagine how hard it would be not to have even that option.

I fully agree Dach that midwives and doulas should be as fully renumerated as obs and there should not be an expectation that just because catching the baby is a privilege their time and skill shouldn't be paid for properly BUT i do not think the individual should have to meet the costs in some circumstances but not others. Either public healthcare pays for all of it, or none of it and everyone has insurance. Money shouldn't be a factor for the individual, the poor deserve good births as much as the rich do.

a bit O/T but one of the things which struck me so hard about the Dutch maternity care article is the statement that there is no culture of litigation in the Netherlands because the government DOES help those who have suffered malpractice or injury at the hands of medical professionals, they don't need to sue to get money to help with care.

Bx

[Shellbelle]

Yeah I took epacris statement the same as you dach. I went into my first birth as a young 19yr old with absolutley no idea. For my 2nd/3rd births I was more informed of choices available and voiced as such. Even post natally I was not pressured when told I needed a blood transfusion, simply refused, and that was that. THIS knowledge/education that I gained after my first birth, enabled me to birth subsequently in a positive manner. And btw, my second was public delivered by midwives, and my last was private with an ob.

[Phteven]

I find it a bit hard to vocalise what I want in labour so even though I had shared my birth intentions before the birth while I was labouring I found it hard to make desicions and express myself.

[Shellbelle]

Oh the posts are disappearing before my eyes! Just went back to re-read and some major editing going on.

[Shellbelle]

I understand that Dach, but what I am trying to say I spose is because labour is so unpredictable i.e. progress etc, sometimes our intentions do change (pain relief for example), but if it is known what we wanted prior to labour then this can be reaffirmed back before making a change to what was originally wanted. Does that make sense!!!??

Anyway, I think home births are great, freebirth no. Too risky imo if their is no medical help on hand if need be.

[s361768]

Dach was not able to get message due to pop up blocker on my lap top and it is vista and all new to me. Apologies

I guess this thread has gone a little of the topic of DIY birth in USA and more on birthing options and others opinions on that her in OZ (probably no thanks to me... sorry)

I guess what I think about DIY birth, because it is going round in my head and I want to have one with my partner and lovely doula this time, is that we should support other womens birthing options.

In America women want babies too but because of their health system have tougher choices, they have higher rates of intervention in their hospitals (and just imagine why, people actually successfully sue over there if doctors injure or maim them or worse kill them).
So I can understand their choices for DIY birth esp. if they cant access safer alternatives.

With regards to myself birthing my first baby at 20 and being told to shut up with a posterior birth, having gas shoved in my face forcefully being shoved onto my side by a midwife, being in stirrups and having to listen to a doctor and registrar talk about female circumcision while being sewed back up. Having baby born not breathing due to 3 shots of peth and I could add more. This was absolute assault I will never ever forget this experience and it has created so much anxiety and pain.

My CS 2nd birth was better but I was lied to etc etc.

Women should support other women in matters of childbirth because the hosp system def. does not

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Thanks Epacris, way to go to really know what happens at birth. Maybe you ought to talk to a woman who is VERY well educated, educated herself about childbirth and then had... well, my birth. Way to go to make me feel even worse than I already do right now about everything. *claps hands*. I guess I'm just stupid then. I'm not refering to anything broader than childbirth here either.

I don't have a baby bonus, but I do have free health care. Because their pay doesn't depend on my happiness, their being at my birth doesn't depend on me choosing them, I cannot trust these people. At all. I don't think a free system solves anything - you're just another number, hurry up and get her out because it's lunchtime and we're bored of you now.

Swinging back to freebirth rather than homebirth again now...

ETA s361768, I really feel for you. That birth is MORE than reason to not trust anyone around you ever again. I agree, it is assault, it is a complete violation and HOW do these people get away with it? I didn't even see an ob during pregnancy once, let alone when they were all for chopping me up (only chopped me up a little). OK, I saw a couple of registrars, but they're still supposed to be learning, how do they learn if not from someone who has qualified? Just from violating the women they see?

[s361768]

Dachs I did get the message, I am still navigating myself around this forum.

I find that registrars can be more defensive, dismissive and brutal in their treatment of a pregnant or birthing women than the consultants. You see more registrars at the hosp here than consultants.

Which makes no difference in the long run because most of them are anti-mothers choice. My last preg the consultant didn't argue with my birth plan but said that if I didn't want med intervention to stay away from the hosp till the last min, knowing himself that tertiary hosp are high intervention, lovely English midwife said the same thing to me on the day. Thank god for that advice. Although I did take them literally and almost birthed in the car...Really I was just terrified of going to hosp because of what they may have done to me.

I didn't go, even though I was told that my uterus could rupture etc (VBACer) I could die baby could die, that is how frightened I was.

[Epacris]

I’m sorry s361768 and Rosehip Fairy (and anyone else). I didn’t realise that what I had said would upset you so deeply. I wish you all the very, very best for your future birthing experiences.

[meow]

I find the topic of freebirth very interesting. I can completely understand why American women are choosing this option- their birth options are appalling with the high level of medicalisation and infant mortality. But then they have no assistance for any other option. I know things need to improve in Australia but at least we do have publically funded birth centres and even homebirths in some states.

In saying that I'm not saying we should be complacent and settle for what we have- homebirths should be pubically funded and available to all women so that they can access midwife support at home rather than feeling that a freebirth is their only option. This would also ensure that midwives are being paid what they should- they shouldn't feel they need to cap their costs at the baby bonus or something to make themselves affordable. It would even cost the nation less to support homebirths rather than accommodating all births in hospitals.

When deciding on our birth options I really wanted a homebirth but decided on a birth centre with a doula due to the cost. I know we could have spent the BB on a homebirth so at the end of the day this is my choice and something I've made peace with (on the understanding that next time is a homebirth regardless of cost ). I started to freak out about the birth centre though and considered a freebirth for a while. I'm not sure if I could ask my doula to assist us at home- that's a huge responsibility and I don't have the time to study everything I would need to to feel safe birthing my baby unassisted. For now, I'm happy again with our original decision of birth centre so we'll see how we go- I think I have fantastic support in my H and doula.

Freebirth reminds me of my cat and how she'll instantly hide and be by herself when feeling unwell. It seems very primal and natural to be on your own in pain to focus and listen to exactly what your body needs. I admire women who have the confidence to do this as I think it could be a very positive experience.

[Eternalbear]

Christina (the lady in story in the original post) and I belong to another forum and I have gotten to know her though posts over the last 8 months and she is honestly one of the most inspirational ladies. She did not go into this process blindly, she is one of the the most educated women on the subject you could ever meet.

Melissa

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

For my next baby, i am having a homebirth (its been decided even though i'm not pregnant yet!) and if I can't arrange/afford a private midwife, I'll be delivering by myself. The bleeding thing scares me, which i suppose is the point. If you don't have a midwife there to stitch you up then you're done for >.<