Article: Risks Fail to Deter Caesarean Births

[BellyBelly]

I actually haven't met anyone who wants a natural birth to sit under a tree, with no intervention and pixies singing Koombayah but I wish I had pixies with me LOL probably would have made it fun!!! I've had both though, a horrible first birth with intervention and a drug-free second one. The difference in recovery is massive.

Natural birth is soooo not hippy these days - I had an *accidental* awesome birth because I happened to stay at home and rock up into hospital at 9cm. I had no choice but to have no drugs, and I am bloody glad I did, because I got the biggest high I could have ever imagined. Hence the passion for what I do. Women just need a bit more support, and when they realise what they are capable of (if they have made the decision to want a vaginal birth and without drugs, as the majority do prior to labour) then more women will be able to experience this. It's a great feeling, and it's not what EVERYONE wants, but everyone who comes to me for birth support, wants no drugs and as natural as possible - and they are far from alternative people. Some with lots of money, expensive houses and cars, right down to those who live a humble existence. None wanted homebirths, but quite a few now want one after having an awesome experience and have the confidence to do that. Hard to imagine for many of you, but this is what comes with good support and a great experience - confidence. I think these days women have more access to information, specifically through the internet. They want to know more, they want to be informed and learn of the risks. More women are not wanting to take those risks.

As for this new Rainbows_ member, I think she is a bit of a $hitstirrer going by past posts only in the labour/birth forum.

[Debbie Lee]

I used to think that the concept of natural birth was airy-fairy. I was more than happy to take the drugs (I asked for an epidural and was given an early one because of my high BP).
Now that I've experienced all the intervention and suffered the consequences of that intervention, I've done an about-face. I'm not unrealistic and not ruling anything out but I'd really love to give natural birth a go. Having another caesar just seems too risky on so many levels for me (and I've barely scratched the surface with information).

Brooke - everyone respects your choice (I know I certainly do! - after all, my main reason for possibly wanting another caesar is not based on a medical problem but a fear of history repeating itself) but this thread is more about how some women still believe that caesars are the safer option iykwim? It's not an attack on those that do choose to have a caesar in spite of the risks (you said yourself that you do it knowing the risks... and it's great that you don't have blinders on so that you can have an empowered birth experience).

[Rouge]

Brooke, darling! You chose your c/s and thats great! There is nothing against that. And I can tell you right now if I had to choose between having a c/s and not having a baby I would definitely choose a c/s. I have a gf who I know if she ever got pg would no way have a vag birth, and thats her choice and I will support her 100%, so when the time comes I will help her to have the most beautiful C/S she can have totally empowered! BUT I am still up there with the tree hugging pixie singing pro vag birthers

Its very different to CHOOSE a c/s and have one thrusted upon you especially when you later find out it was unnecessary. You wouldn't be happy if you went in for a boob job and came out with a penis unless you REALLY needed a penis, or REALLY wanted a penis. But if you came out with a penis because the Dr thought it would suit you or because he had more penis' than boobs thats not ok. BUT there are also very necessary emergency c/s' too. I can't stand bullying, and some Dr's do it for their benefit, I was bullied by an ob to have a c/s I said no way and changed obs. And the amount of women I know who have suffered trauma associated with the c/s (but not really the c/s but the power struggle itself that stems from the c/s) is sooo sad. The reason these risks are good to know is not so it makes people who choose a c/s feel bad its so that women question their medical carers so that they know they are getting the care that suits them.

I hope I'm making sense... You have your C/S its an empowered choice and you are going to make it the best damn C/S there is I bet and damnit woman sing to the pixies... they love it LOL! But please don't think anyone on here especially Kelly (who would have gladly held my hand in theatre had I chose a C/S) is attacking you for your choices coz thats not so... and if anyone does I'll be the first to tell em off LOL!

[Rainbows_]

well after reading all the great stuff on natural births it still does not convince me to go through hours of labour and push out a baby through my tight canal (vigina). natural births are only great for those who want them, my c-section was painless, effortless and qucik, i was walking around the next day and the scar is barely visable.

i will choose a c-section next time if i have more kids as i still cant imagine pushing a baby out in all that pain its to scary!!!! I dont think thats vanity i think it just being able to enjoy your baby as soon as its born rather than waiting to push out a placenta and then getting stiched up being tired etc etc.

Once my baby was born by a c-section i was so happy it was over in seconds. I have read about so many still births, and viginal births going wrong and lots of complications, even though im not againt these viginal births i would never choose one everyone i know who has had one has complained about a baggy vigina, depression and the remeberance of the trauma they went through.

My friend just had her fourth baby and she beged the doctors for a c-section but was not allowed. This is not true for everyone and im sure some people want to do it.

What i dont understand is why some women are sooooo anti c-section if i did not have one my baby could of been a viginal stillbirth!! Im thankful for c-sections.

[chocolatecatty]

tangent yes, but anyway...

Rainbows_ ....I had a first natural birth a few months ago and let me tell you, I don't have a 'baggy vagina' - I had sex one week to the day after the birth and it was as fabulous as ever (probably even more so due to the anticipation!). There is absolutely no depression or even a hint of a rememberance of trauma simply because there was no trauma. I was able to enjoy Caty immediately after she was born as I was in crazy heightened state of awareness which lasted for ages...the placenta came out without any effort (hardly even noticed it) and there were no stitches to stop me enjoying my lovely baby.
I'm not anti-c but it annoys me when natural birth is made to be an awful ordeal that only freaks go through when quite simply, it is not!

[Rainbows_]

I am only quoting what i have been told about labour you must be the first person i have heard that speaks about labour in such a great way! However i was induced and after hours of pain (worse pain because of induction) i know that contractions wore me out very badly, (i was hungry, weak and fed up) my vigina was also very sore and that was only from having internal examiniations by a trainiee doctor as he was the only guy avaliable at the time.

However i didnt mean to offend you with the baggy vigina comment this is what i have heard from women who confess that theirs is in an awful state! Even more so 2nd 3rd time round etc. I even know a women who had to have cosmetic surgery to correct this.

I am glad i have heard positive comments about labour from you as i can honestly say you are the first, i hope to hear many more.

However i dont feel women should be forced into viginal births if they dont want them just as someone should not be forced into a c-section.

Maybe this is why the rate of c-sections in the Uk is nearly 25% 1 in four births simply because of all the horror stories you hear on the nhs. If people were more informed about labour and heard positive things im sure the rate would drop. I have only heard bad things except from you about how horrible labour is.

I was happy to go through with a viginal birth when i was induced but after a horrible experience and a great experience with c-sections i know it form both worlds and i will choose a c-section because of this.

I will not purswade people to do this as i feel everyone should make their own choose but i will tell people of my experience to inform them that c-section for me was very pleasent, enjoyable, stress free and allowed me to have sex asap

[Roryrory]

I actually haven't met anyone who wants a natural birth to sit under a tree, with no intervention and pixies singing Koombayah

Yes you have Kelly - ME! I met you at the Baby show in Melbourne - LOL!!!

Rainbows I had a fanstastic vaginal birth, so great that next time I won't have an OB and go to a private hospital but instead choose a midwife and birth centre (Kelly, I think the tree in a field will have to wait to baby number 3, though!! )

I agree with you that women only hear negative things about labour (three work colleagues sat in front of me an chanted the mantra "epidural, eipidural, epidural"). But there are as many women who have great natural/vaginal births who have traumatic ones, and the same applies for c-section births. I think whatever path a woman choses or has chosen for her (whether by medical neccesity or doctor's convenience) education is the key. If you are informed you at least retain some modicum of control over what can be the best and worst experience of a woman's life.

[Inanna]

B456 - I fully understand and have on a number of occassions supported women through an elective c/section. My concerns are not with women who know the risks to themeselves and their babies in c/section. MY concerns are with women who chose c/section as a safer quicker option without knowing the risks or in fact believing they exist. They are also with the doctors who perform c/section as a birth choice for women who believe it is safer and quicker.

I fully (and on a personal level ) understand emotional reasons for thinking of c/section as an option. I know for myself when I am pregnant with my next child I will need to work hard to trust my body to push my baby out. The last baby I birthed through my vagina was not alive - it's going to be something I am going to have to really work on.

However, because I have seen what I have with c/section and because I know the risks I won't choose it as an option unless it is medically necessary. Mostly though because I believe that birth is a process. I believe that the time it takes to grow our children inside of us, the emotions that bubble up, the fears, the joys, the sadnesses and the memories that pregnancy and birth bring are very very important for our emotional and spiritual growth. The emotions that have to be grappled with to dilate that extra centimetre and the fear that has to be released can be cathartic. I know for me during my first birth it was very much like that. I too have suffered abuse as a young person and I am certain this had much to do with my difficult first labour. Birth is very releasing I believe.

That isn't to say that the process of surgery and the informed and empowered decision around that cannot be that also. I believe so wholly in the process of birthing. I believe in the intuitiion of birth. I lament at that beauty being taken from the process and it being about incisions and drugs and monitors when it's not necessary. I am a medical person so I do know and have seen as I mentioned before c/section save the life of mothers and babies or indeed just make it possible to give birth at all.
Please know though that I do fully understand that emotional health as a reason for c/section. Again, my push is that a fully informed decision is made - you clearly made that. I am so happy that you made the point of emotional reasons for c/section.

Rainbow: Your needs and experiences have been made very clearly. I am unsure however that they have been made on an informed level. I am not sure if you are being antagonistic but to quote B456 I owuldn't be me if I didn't comment...
Baggy vagina??????? PLease! I have pushed five babies out of my very capable vagina and I have an incredibly satisfying sex life as does my husband of nearly 13 years.!
There is a limit Rainbow to how many c/sections can be safely performed and if c/section were everyones birth of choice and you had an obs who was happy to perform major surgery so your vagina isn't baggy then again that's your decision. Your baby and your body.
I agree that women shouldn't be "forced" into vaginal birth but Rainbow that's actually how babies are designed to come out! I disagree emphatically with you. C/section should not be made available to people just because they want it. C/section is major surgery with risks that actually do come about sometimes. It is erroneous to believe that c/section is a safer birth option because the facts say otherwise. It is quicker (sometimes) yes but not safer.

As for women who have enjoyed birthing. Well I am another one! I LOVE giving birth. I LOVE labouring. I LOVE IT!!! I enjoy it and I would say without hesitiation the births of my children were the most empowering and enjoyable experiences of my life. Even the birth of my sleeping baby was empowering in a way that is hard to explain...

Koombyah no but chanting yes! I have a SIL who is a music therapist and I have used chants in my labour - the sounds we make with our mouths and the shape of our lips has a lot of impact on labour.

You sound like you had a traumatic birth experience. I would argue that your experience would have been far more positive had you had continuity of care throughout your pregnancy and laboaur by a midwife. You would have had support - you certainly wouldn't have had so many vaginal examinations which I may add should certainly not leave your vagina sore.

Stick around Rainbow and I am sure you will be hearing many more positive birth experiences!!! However they don't just "happen". You have to educate yourself, surround yourself with support, choose a place to birth that feels safe for you with care providers you develop a relationship with and trust.

[Astrid]

I will not purswade people to do this as i feel everyone should make their own choose but i will tell people of my experience to inform them that c-section for me was very pleasent, enjoyable, stress free and allowed me to have sex asap

Sorry, after having has a stressful emergency c-section, I find the whole thing that being able to have sex "asap" quite insignificant to the whole process. It was awful and I was in pain for ages. The whole idea of having sex was beyond me. If I manage to have another regardless of the form of birth, being able to have sex "asap" will not be important to me and certainly I would not choose to have a c-section just because of that reason.

[Liz]

I just want to pop in and put my hand up to being one that enjoyed labour!

Flowerchild - your posts are just great in this thread.. there's nothing really to add to them! LOL.

I am actually quite scared of c-sections, as I see them as needing a lot of recovery. Tallon was breech for a little while, and c-section was to be discussed in my next OB visit if he hadn't turned.. and I was devestated! Thankfully he turned! I see it that my body is designed to cope with the rigours of labour, but not really designed to recover from surgery. (ok.. that sounds a bit wrong.. of course it recovers.. but it's not a natural thing iykwim?)

Yes vaginal birth requires time and work.. and yes it hurts! But I LOVED it and can't wait to do it again (remind me of this when reality hits when I'm pg again! LOL)

I've had no ill-effects whatsoever from a vaginal birth - no bagginess, no probs with pelvic floor - nothing. And I definitely got to enjoy my baby from the moment he was born, with no interruptions. He was eventually weighed etc, and I had to get up and shower - but other than that, bub was with me the whole time, and it was lovely

[pholmes]

Hi,

I just wanted to add my thoughts. I have had an emergensy c-section, forceps delivery and a normal vaginal delivery (he was 9lbs 7 ozs). My last labour and delivery were scary because of his size and his shoulders were stuck for a while, however, by far my worst experience was the emergency c/s. I am terrified of having to need another one, the recovery time, the pain I was in after and the way it affected my ability to look after my son straight after he was born were all horrible experiences.

I had an ARM with my third son as he was post dates and my ob was getting worried and I was really worried I may end up having a c/s because of the increased risk of intervention with an induced or augmented labour. A c/s is not something I would ever do by choice, Id even rather the episiotomy and forceps I had with my second son.

I just wanted to add that my ob is not pro intervention. I had my first son as a public patient and the c/s was definitely unavoidable, with my second my ob was away and he was born at 35 weeks and one of her partners delivered him with forceps due to fetal distress (the midwife who called him in later apologised saying I could have pushed him out on my own but she didnt want to take any chances) and my third was deliverd by my ob, normally.

[Rainbows_]

Thank you for the great replies i honestly feel so confused right now, all my life i was told labour was a bad thing, yes it is how babies are suppossed to come out but i have heard so many horror stories i never thought about it being an emotional and spiritual experience how amazing that sounds!!

I was reading a few natural birth stories and expected to hear horror but i heard excitment, bonding and joy. If i joined this site for one reason it was to bring me back to reality!!

I know i may have sounded quite mean but i was digging for the truth!! I wanted to hear what you ladies said from experience.

Maybe when i have a next baby i may opt for a natural the only prob is by the time i get to 8 months i will see a big bump and start panicking and worrying and then just get a c-section as i know its avaliable to me now.

Induction was horrible for me i now realise because it was the intervention i hated!!!! I had gel, a drip, my waters popped, internal examination every 30mins, no pain relief in the first 10hrs!!!! I had to lie still while a fetal monitor was attached i couldnt move around, i cried i was so scared so when i was offered the c-section i just took it and thought it was great.

I think if i go overdue again i have no choice but a c-section because i find they are the best intervention if really needed since induction really stressed me out.

Just wanted to say thanks

[Trish]

Fainbows, what if in the weeks approaching your due date you started to do some natural therapies and the like to encourage bub to come on it's own. Of course there is no guarentee that it will work but a far better option in my opinion. Babies don't always come on their due date, simply because they just aren't ready. Fine for me to say now that I'm not pregnant I know.

Maybe even have a look into hypo birthing, it might help you get your mind into the right place.

Just a few options, but of course it's all totally up to you in the end

[Debbie Lee]

I had gel, a drip, my waters popped, internal examination every 30mins, no pain relief in the first 10hrs!!!! I had to lie still while a fetal monitor was attached i couldnt move around, i cried i was so scared so when i was offered the c-section i just took it and thought it was great.

Rainbows - your birth experience sounds rather similar to mine. I was induced with gel early (had 3 doses over 2 days) and left for 5 days in agony. The birthing suites at the hospital had filled up and they were reluctant to speed up the process (that they'd already started!! All because I had high BP... no other reason). My waters were broken 5 days after the first dose of gel and I was given an epidural after experiencing only 4 hours of "proper" labour (tho it felt exactly the same as what I'd been feeling for days ). I was put on the drip, constantly monitored etc. Gabby's heart rate was dropping every time the drip was turned up so it was concluded that I needed a caesar. It was scary but I didn't mind... I was tired and over it. I do remember feeling "ripped off" when I stopped feeling the contractions tho. The whole caesar experience was bizarre but not traumatic. It's the value of hindsight that has made me see that it all could have been avoided. I doubt the cord would have been wrapped so tightly around Gabby's neck if I hadn't been in agony for 5 days... iykwim?
You are right... intervention is the problem. It automatically increases your chances of ending up with a caesar. Inductions HURT because they are causeing unnatural labour. Any wonder you hated labour so much!

[Rainbows_]

Thanks for the support i now only realise why i had such a terrible time i thought all labours were like that! Silly me!!

I was thinking if i went for a home birth how much intervention will happen? I dont want internal examinations but are they a legal requirement? Im confused as to how much intervention is legal??

How would i know if i am fully dilated without intervention?

Would i be aware of what is going on in the second stage of labour when i push the baby out? Or will i be in too much pain to bond?? Please help

[Trish]

Rainbows, I had a homebirth with my last baby. You are not required at all to have internals. That is up to you and your midwife. Half the point of having a home birth is for less intervention, so basically no rupture of membranes, minimal to no internals, intermitant fetal monitoring with a doppler.

Information is power hun, fill yourself with so much information and hopefully you will always know what's going on.

As for knowing when your fully dilated, your body will tell you that. This is when your baby will start to move down the birth canal, you can feel this happening, Not really painful, just pressure moreso in your lower back.

Find yourself a midwife or doula that you are completely comfortable with, share your fears, have lots of talks and tell her exactly what you want out of your birthing experience. Of course things don't always go to plan but that's the same way with life in general.

Goodluck sweety with whatever you decide to do. Already you are doing great, asking lots of questions is the first step.

[Lukesmum]

Rainbows,
I was induced at 10 days overdue and had my water broken. I then went on to have a long labour finishing with an emergency c/s. However I only had 1 internal the entire time and that was when the ob decided that the best thing was a c/s as I was not progressing at all. Only 2cm dilated after 16 hours and bub was coming through face first which he said was a problem. Don't know if that's true but I just wanted to let you know with all that happened to me I only had one internal. The midwives told me I would know when it was getting near time to push and to let them know. I think the big thing is educating yourself and knowing as much as you can before the birth. I went in not knowing anything really so i just accepted everything that was said to me.

[Rainbows_]

Yes, i feel so upset i cant believe i let those people just treat me like a piece of meat!! i honestly thought that i could not refuse and internal or refuse to have my waters broken. If i had of known this i would never let them near me as some of them were so rough and nasty with me i literally had to take gas and air because i got so hurt with these horrid internals!!

I really want to be able to go through birth without anything!! No internals forced on me, no epidural, no being tied to a bed!!

Gosh i was so silly if only i had know i could of had a peacful home brth and let my body do its thing rather than have all that forced upon me for 20hrs!!

Women need to be informed about these things, i though i had no legal right when my baby was coming out!! Now i know and wont be so stupid next time