Need some advice & support!! New breastfeeding mother....
Hi,
I've got a nearly 2 week old baby girl and have found my breastfeeding journey so far to be quite difficult yet I am persisting because it means so much to me to BF my daughter. In hospital we had a few attachment issues especially on the L side as I have a flat nipple but now we are attaching fine on this side too with persistence. In hospital, DD lost 400g in weight (just over the 10% of body weight) and because of that I was forced to express after feeds and top up with express BM. She was feeding every 3hrs as we would wake her. Not sure why she lost so much weight, perhaps attachment issues or perhaps we weren't feeding often enough. Since then she has gained the weight back.
She's a very sleepy baby and since coming home can sometimes sleep up to 5.5hrs without waking!! Last night was the worst, and she wouldn't wake and by the time I woke and realised the time she hadn't fed for 8hrs!! I am demand feeding however I have found I have to make sure she wakes after 3-4hrs for her next feed otherwise she may keep sleeping and then it takes forever to get her on as she is so groggy even after changing her nappy and wiping her eyes with warm water.
She quite often fusses when we are attaching and nods her head around and makes it hard for me to have her lined up at the nipple to attach. She will also not open her mouth very wide or if she does, her tongue will be up instead of down! It can sometimes take up to 30mins to get her attached. Very frustrating for both of us. I try to remain as calm and relaxed as possible however it gets hard when she's screaming in hunger.
The midwives in the hospital said she's a 'fussy' baby and checked for tongue tie etc and all that and no issues there. She just needs to work hard for her feeds and sometimes doesn't want to.
In hospital, with express BM top ups, she was given a syringe or a cup to take them from as I refused to give her a bottle. However last night, with a few tears from me, we decided to give her some expressed BM from a bottle (the closer to nature tommee tipee ones) and she took it well. Gulped 70ml down in about 5mins. She was so hungry. My nipples were just too sore to feed her.
I'm seeing the maternal health nurse on Tues at the local clinic to get her weighed but in the meantime I need some help and advice.
My main issues I need advice and support with here is -
* My nipples are cracked and so sore and bleeding....does this get better?? I am using Lansinoh in between feeds and avoiding soaps and air drying them.
* She attaches correctly as we made sure that in hospital the midwives watched us attach at EVERY feed, so how come we are still having issues and taking a while to attach sometimes?
* I have to wrap DD up before i feed her so her arms and hands don't get in the way because she throws them around and grabs my nipple (ouch hurts!!!) is this normal??
* I am worried I may have a shortage in milk as I expressed today and it took 15mins each side to express 20ml each boob. Whereas about 2 days ago I expressed heaps more! Does it depend on the day?
* I drank more water today to help as I don't think I have been having enough.... can this affect your milk supply>
* My milk came in on day 3/4 and my boobs have been leaking ever since however the last 2 days they aren't leaking anymore..... well they do but not as much.....
* sometimes when DD attaches to my nipple, she will suck for say 10secs and then pull off..... is the milk coming in too fast for her or not fast enough????
* I'm worried!!!!
Mum stayed last 2 days and believes DD could have colic. She cries and screams for up to 2hrs after a feed even after we burp her. She takes ages to settle and screams like she's in pain..... the last 2 nights have been very hard and she is not sleeping as much as a newborn should. Is this colic or hunger??
I knew breastfeeding would be a challenge and something both baby and Mum have to learn. Just need to know that its going to get easier....
some gentle support please for a confused new tired Mum who wants the best for her baby!!
Thank you!!
Ren. The first few weeks are really tough, but it sounds like you are doing very well. You will get past this hun, and it will get easier.
There are a few things that spring to mind reading your post. Firstly, it is possible that your attachment isn't quite right. Midwives are often not trained in bfing and some know far more about it than others, so it is possible that they didn't notice a problem. Or even that it is fine in hossy but now isn't. The clues that this might be an issue are the sore, cracked nipples, and also the fact that she doesn't settle well after feeds, and is sleepy. It could also explain a drop in supply, but the fact that you are getting less expressing doesn't necessarily mean a drop in supply (it could be just the time of day, or you might be stressed or tired).
It is also common for the hands to be a problem, but you might find that she feeds better unwrapped. I had to feed the boys naked (with just a nappy on) a lot as newborns as being cool helped them stay awake a bit.
My suggestion is to call the ABA helpline, and preferably get face-to-face help, so your attachment can be checked again. If you are a member of the ABA, you could call your local counsellor and ask them, and another option is to contact an IBCLC qualified LC (best to stick with an IBCLC one so that you know you are getting a good one). I know that with a 2 week old, getting out or having someone over seems daunting, but it will be well worth it.
In the meantime, try feeding more often to see if that helps. I know it's hard if she's sleeping, but that's the best way to build up your supply if it's dropping. Also think about how the expressing is going with your nipples - does it make it worse than bfing, or better? If it makes it worse, I would try and feed more often and drop the expressing for now.
I know you will get past this hun. You are doing a great job, and good on you for persevering. I know you will be glad you did.
You'd think that something so "natural" would be so much easier
Have you thought about getting an LC to see you in your home, they are fantastic and when I came home with DS the hossy staff where happy with our attachment, got home things deterioated and when I got an LC in our attachment wasnt the best, which is why i had really nasty cracked nipples.
With the cracking i found a little breastmilk squeezed on them at the end of every feed and then air dried works wonders, with DD i didnt crack. Also i dont know how true it is but my LC said that lansolin can make it worse :shrug:
With the bottle feed, it may not have been from hunger but more the drink or drown reaction, if they dont guzzle it they will choke on it as it flows so differently than from the breast.
Wrapping - might be making her too cosy and sleepy, keep her feet unwrapped if you have to wrap so you can tickle them or maybe get a safe chunky necklace for her to fiddle with (mind you they love to fiddle & twiddle)
Expressing is not a great indication of supply, but if you are stressed it will be harder to express. Drink heaps of water a it'll keep you hydrated and will help with milk production
With the screaming, definately chat with someone if you are concerned. Though it may be something simple as something you ate or drank before feeding that didnt agree.
Have you tried having a bath with your gorgeous DD and just cuddling and nursing (if she is interested)? Also if you can maybe spend a day just bonding in bed with her and letting her nurse when she wants and sleep next to you.
first of congragulations on the birth of your beautiful baby. Now take a deep breath. OK now I don't claim to know everything and hopefuly barb will be here later but for now here is my advice.
We weren't allowed home until day 5 cause DS lost more than the 10%. I also had cracked nipples and found that by week 2 I was exhausted, starting to dread every feed and seriously considered formulae, we even brought a tin. When we got home DS would sleep for 4/5 hours at the most and we were getting into the pattern of feeding every 3 hours with each feed taking upto an hour.
What I am trying to say is that both of your are still learning so while attachment might be good she is still learning to suck. Expressing isn't always a good indication of supply as it isn't as efficient as a baby feeding. I have also read that with some babies becuase they aren't feeding enough they are very sleepy and so while you are feeding on demand she is too tired to demand IYKWIM? She would have gulped at the bottle cause it would have come out easier so that is a normal reaction too.
My suggestions to help to make it easier for both of you is practice, practice, practice. Can you take a few days where you do nothing but concentrate on DD so literally sleep with DD, feed her every 2/3 hours through the day and if you can at least 4 hourly overnight. Can someone make your food for you? so that you can just rest and eat and feed? after a couple of days of practice DD will be a better sucker your supply will have increased and hopefuly things will improve.
I did use nipple sheilds for about a week in that 2nd week. At first I used them every feed and then every 2nd feed and then just overnight. You shouldn't use them long term without the advice of a lactation consultant because they have been known to cause issues with supply.
I would also make sure you are drinking lot's of water if you can. Have a bottle with you and sip everytime you remember.
I know how hard those early days are but before you know it it will be easier. DS now feeds for less then 5 mins most times.
i will always remember barb once saying that a sleepy baby is often the sign for a hungry baby..so maybe try and feed 2/3 hourly instead of 3/4.you wont be getting in to any bad habits by doing that...at this age they dont snack.
is your dh home? if he is dont you do anything but rest with your baby..and feed..( occasionally getting up to go to the toilet ids OK hehehe)
but defiantley call ABA.. get a hold of a LC
maternal health nurses are notorious for getting it so wrong when it comes to BFing.. so just be catious of advice from them
Renstar,
Firstly, well done on the great job you have done so far, it is great that you are so passionate about breastfeeding and you are doing ALL the right things. I remember someone told me in the early days that it takes 6 weeks before the breastfeeding clicked for her, and i experienced a similar thing (oh man that 6 weeks seemed like a long time!) Your nipples will be sore, I used paw paw ointment on mine and eventually they did heal, I tried to be vigilant with my attachment which you already are! Bubby is learning to attach and feed, this too takes time. It will get easier and before you know it you wont even have to think about it. Do not worry about the amount you express (or don't) as babies are much more efficient at draining the boob than a pump. Also don't worry about your boobs not leaking or feeling as full, they adjust to your babies needs as you go. Definately drink LOTS of water and try to rest as much as you can. Taking bubby to bed with you for cuddles and breastfeeds can be a great way to boost your supply. Take care, you are doing so well and it will get better. Your little girl is lucky to have such a great mummy!
Hi Ren, congrats on your bub! I know you'll get there with the BFing, as you're so determined I haven't read the other replies, so forgive me if I repeat things, and I'm sorry to be brief.
*What are her nappies like? How many wet and dirty in 24 hours?
*How many feeds is she having in 24 hours? It's really important that she's having 8-12 feeds a day. I know how hard that is with a baby who doesn't *demand feed*, no matter how hard you try!
*I get what you mean about her arms waving around, but I'm thinking that wrapping her might be interfering with her positioning......you need to make sure that you follow "chin to breast, chest to chest". Make sure her little body is tucked right into yours, and that her chin is tucked down into your breast, leaving her nose clear. What position are you feeding her in?
*It really does sound like you have some attachment issues. Did you see an LC in hossy? Can you organise to see one now? If so, do it sooner rather than later, a good LC will make the world of difference to you.
*Can I ask why you are expressing?
*You do need to make sure you're well-hydrated, but you don't need to overdo it, simply drink according to thirst.
*Please don't worry about the amounts you express!!!!!! I know that's easier said than done, but there is nothing to be gained by stressing about it.
*Definitely call the ABA helpline 1800 mum2mum
*I had some similar issues to you, and Barb suggested jumping into bed with my baby for the weekend, and STAYING there. Feeding whenever he looked sideways at me. I only needed a day, it worked so well (which was saying something, my DS was a VERY sleepy prem). I suddenly had a hungry, demanding, baby.
*Hopefully Barb will be along soon to help you out (we love you Barb!)
*Hang in there, you're doing a fabulous job honey One day things will be easier, and you'll hardly remember this time
Sorry to be all over the place Ren, I hope that all makes sense.
Last edited by Janie; February 14th, 2009 at 09:02 PM.
HUgs Ren... the first weeks are the hardest- you are doing a great job!! Keep up the good work!!
We had attatchment issues to start with too, and i got VERY sore nipples, it was suggested to me to use a different position for bfeeding then i had been when i got the sore nipples, as with a different position she will be sucking on a differnt part of the nipple and it might help a little- i tried the "football" hold i had to put DS on a few pillows next to me with his feet under my arm pits and his head infront of my boobie (does that make sense????) It may or may not help with the attatchment too. It helped to ease the pain and made bfeeding a little more bearable while my nipples healed.
The other thing i did which some people may call me crazy for- but i swear it worked.. i would say to DS "Big OPen Mouth" before he was about to attach, if he didnt open his mouth big and wide- i wouldnt let him attach, when he did do it right i gave him lots of praise and he got to get on... after a few goes, he seemed to actually understand and he would open his mouth big on command- I'm not joking, it worked for me!!!
I would follow the other great advice here and look into seeing LC to be sure its all going well oh and i understand the having to be wrapped thing with the arms, and DS would get groggy too my trick was when he woke up- straight on the boob for say 20 minutes, a little tickle under his chin or a rub of his cheek if he looked like he was nodding off and once he was feeding i would slowly unwrap him bit by bit while feeding- then i would stop- really re-wake him by changing his nappy- re wrap and then 20 mins on the other boob But let him fall asleep- the first feed was the most important for me, and i would switch which boobie was the "first side" as he would generally feed more in the first 20 minutes ( i dont know where i got the 20 mins thing from, but i remember at hospital they wouldnt let me go home till he would feed for at least 10 minutes each side without falling asleep- and i think i doubled it to be extra sure i was feeding him enough!!)
Ok i think thats enough blubbering out of me, sorry its late and you know me i tend to waffle on- i hope some of this helped- good luck and keep trying, the pain does go away, and it is worth the pain in the end once you and bubs get the hang of feeding!!
Oh one more thing---- YES DRINK LOADS OF WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a big 1.5 litre bottle close to you at all times and drink drink drink!!!!! It will make you feel better and it will help with your supply!!
Oh and have a cry if you need to- let out your frustration with a big bawl, so that you dont have it all bottled up when you try to feed- it will make you feel better, and it is completely normal to get emotional!!!
Ren you have some fantastic advice here and I applaud your determination and seeking help at this difficult time. It can be so frustrating but know that you are not alone. Ive breastfed all my babies into toddlerhood but I still find those first few weeks so difficult, ouchy and teary!
For me it definately sounds like attachment may not be right, so like the girls have said, get hold of a LC. When my nipples were sore after having gone through the same thing not so long ago, I expressed and found it such a relief. It actually gave my nipples a chance to heal in between the feeds until we got our attachment right. One feed with attachment not being quite right can result in grazing which can really really hurt and be enough to be wary next feed.
I really think its important to keep up water intake as well. I tend to drink water with every feed and as much as I need to in between feeds.
Please please try and relax. Know that how you are feeling is very very normal. What you are describing sounds like me just a few weeks ago and we have had no probs whatsoever since.
babe i could have written the same post just a short time ago! but it is so true, it does get easier.........
sometimes i had to get dd1 to hold down the baby's arms - and they still often get in the way...
i started taking fenugreek, i found it really helped to boost my supply when they are feeling low. i also find that if i am doinbg too much (even just cleaning the house!) my boobs dont make as much milk, i really need to rest....
try some pawpaw on your boobs (black tube,no petrochemicals)
ok gotta go make breakkie but sounds like you are doing a great job hun - my problem was also that matisse had thrsh (still does!!)
Thanks so much everyone. Your replies have been so supportive.
* We are getting 5-6 wet nappies over the course of a daytime.... much more than in hospital.
* Havent had dirty nappies since thurs night....why?
* Do you need to burp a BF baby? If she's sleepy after the feed (milk drunk!) can i just put her down???
* Attachment only hurts for the initial latch on and after say 8 secs it doesnt hurt.
I feel its cos my nipples are so sore and trying to heal.
* i'm expressing to help with top up feeds incase DD isnt getting enuf. Also to relieve my painful nipples. Should i put the pump away???
* I rang ABA Thurs but felt the person i spoke to wasnt all that helpful. Supportive yes. Just didnt feel i got much out of it.
* I feel my milk is slowly diminishing perhaps becoz i've not offered the breast as often as i should be. Today will make sure she feeds every 2-3hrs and not 4+.....
* Will keep skin to skin today...no wrapping...see if that helps her stay awake. Just have to tuck her arms out of the way every 2secs!!!
* Is it normal for her to have her eyes shut the whole feed? Sometimes she is more awake & looks around.
* DH couldnt take time off as we have a business however he is so supportive and cooks,cleans,washes etc. All i need to do is feed DD and rest. He even gets up to settle her so i can rest....
Im going to ring ABA as soon as Ava is done feeding here.... (yep typing 1 handed has taken 4eva to type this!) I will ask them 4 a LC contact. Be great to have someone come to me seeing as i am not confident leaving house yet.
One last thing..... average feed lasts 45-1hr....is that normal? After this, we burp her and sit her up as she gets ALOT of wind. This can take 30mins. Then we settle her and put her down then 5mins later she'll cry....we resettle her before she gets too upset...then more wind....then she calms then screams.....this can go on for up to 2-3hrs. by thetime we get her down and shes exhausted from screaming....then its time for her next feed!!!! but we dont want to wake her becos she just got down and we need a break/sleep too!!!!!
WHY is she doingthis? is she hungry??? COLICKY????
And ooooh yes just about every day i have cried over BF..... its hard work!!!
*Good number of wet nappies
*Normal for a bfed baby to go a few days without a poo- it will vary- usually after a few days without you will get a day or two with more than one
*Yes you do need to burb her- i found burping at the half time point helped, and then i found we got in a cycle of if i burped him after the last 20mins he would wake up and need to be resettled- its trial and error- if you put her down and she wakes and needs more burping, then it happens, and yes sometimes the resettling then takes a long time and you are still trying to resettle by the time she should be waking up again- this happens, try some Infants friend- it was our lifesaver!!! You give Ava a few drops before you feed and a few after and it helps her wind
Dirty Nappies b/fed babies can go up to 2 weeks without doing a poo, I usually find that it happens when they are growing and are using more of your milk to do so.
I do think that putting the pump away will be a good idea, like you said just feed more often and she will get more/make more.
With her hands can you tuck one under your arm/breast and then you will only have one to contend with.
Julian for the first month or so use to feed for up to an hour per feed so I would say that it is normal and he also use to have his eyes closed most of the feed, the sucking is like a comfort thing, as long as you are getting fast sucks at the beginning and long slower sucks after let down then it is fine.
*it will still hurt to start with when attaching even if she is attching right until your nipples heal- the pain is just because they are sore and VERY tender- it will pass, if it lasts longer than the 8 seconds or doesnt go away- then she might not be on right, but its normal for it still to hurt a bit even when she is
*As long as your expressing AFTER you feed its ok- but if its stressing you out- then ditch the pump and persevere through the pain and keep offering breast only. You milk supply will settle down a bit- hence why your not leaking as much, its not disapearing, just settling down- the more you feed the more you will make- sometimes it feels like your empty- but trust me there is still some there for her!!
* the more you wake her up- the more she will get used to it and start waking on her own. So yes wake her up if she sleeps any longer than three hours for sure!! within a few days (maybe a week) she will start to do it on her own
*With the arms, once she is attached its ok for her to kind of grope you.. lol it stimulates the milk glands in your breast (have you ever seen puppies feed off their mum, they are constantly kneading the tits) it helps the milk flow, so she may be trying to do that, of course, keep them away while your trying to attach, but let her grope once she is on if she wants to
*Yes its normal for her to have her eyes closed- as long as she is still feeding she is feeding! DS still feeds with his eyes shut, and towards the end of the feed she may slow down and start sucking only every now and then, but just give her a tickle or a rub on her cheek and that will get her going again- and yes 45 mins to an hour is normal too- let her dictate how long she feeds for, dont pull her off even if it looks like she is done. If she falls off, continue to hold her in the feeding position incase she wakes and decides she wants more- or let her pull herself off. And she still may want more- Shane used to pull off, rest his head on my boobie and a few mionutes later he would often go back for seconds. That might be why she is crying after you have put her down- she may still be a little hungry. Dont be in a rush- just sit back relax and let her feed away!!
I hope that has helped you sweetie- keep going, your doing a great job!!!
Ren, you're doing a fabulous job honey, it really is hard work, bit it DOES get better.
I really think you need a good LC to come to your house. Hopefully Barb will pop in here and be able to recommend one in your area. In fact I would go so far as to suggest that you PM her and tell her where you live, and ask for a recommendation. And include a link to this thread so she can come and read about what's happening.
In the meantime it's really important that you feed every 2-3 hours. I would suggest giving her 20 minutes on each side and then trying to settle her. You might find that if she's crying for awhile afterwards you can put her back on the second side for a bit. Try not to watch the clock too much, and don't worry that it's 'too soon'. There's no such thing when it comes to BF babies! This might feel like a hellish vicious circle, but once Ava gets the hang of what's going on, and how to be hungry (ie. demand food) things will settle down somewhat.
It's great that you're only feeling pain for the first 8 seconds, but I still think it's a good idea to check your attachment, JIC there's something going on there. I can't remember if you said, has someone checked for TT?
Skin to skin feeding sounds brilliant, it will really help things, although it might not be immediately apparent. Just chill out with your baby, rest on the couch, or lie in bed, watch TV, sleep, whatever appeals. Try to make your day as relaxing as possible.
Sorry to be garbled again I really recommend getting on to Barb with that PM. You can do this Ren, you will get there!
Guys lets remember that although it is normal for older BF babies to go some time without a poo, it's not normal for newborns. We like to see them pooing at least once a day.
I feel soooo bad now.. perhaps she's been crying for milk yet i think she's just finished and being unsettled.... i know im still learning her different cries etc. But hows that for mummy guilt!!!
Ive set my alarm on my phone to go off every 3hrs!! And ur right, soon she should be waking more often.
I quite often let her burp then try to put her back to same side. I alternate boobs per feed. And perhaps i am rushing it and instead give her more time...... so she may not have colic???? could it be that i just didnt let her finish properly?????
She loves being held close to us and in the sling. Quite often Dh settles her in the sling after i feed her.....she just loves being close to us so maybe the skin to skin will help her feedmore effectively and happily.
Ren, I really and truly know that guilt feeling But move past it, there is no need to feel bad, you're doing everything you can.
So you're giving her one side per feed? I would suggest giving both, and then starting on the one you finished on the last feed, IYKWIM. Try letting her have 20 minutes (ish) on each side and see how she goes with that.
you're doing a great job sweets.
ETA did you see my last post about contacting Barb?
Need some advice & support!! New breastfeeding mother....
I am demand feeding however I have found I have to make sure she wakes after 3-4hrs for her next feed otherwise she may keep sleeping and then it takes forever to get her on as she is so groggy even after changing her nappy and wiping her eyes with warm water.
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Ren. The first few weeks are really tough, but it sounds like you are doing very well. You will get past this hun, and it will get easier.
but we dont want to wake her becos she just got down and we need a break/sleep too!!!!! 
. Sounds like its tough at the moment but you are a brilliant mother! Hang in there babe.
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