need info

[Trillian]

OK, I give up, I have tried to help you and I'm sorry if my links were too commercial for you - you didn't specify that you were only interested in scientific and medical journal articles. Clearly I have offended you again although I was only trying to help and I don't think you can possibly know it all simply because you are a scrub nurse. Like the breastfeeding article for example, I assume that you aren't on the wards with post-op mothers trying to establish BF are you? Some women post-op have a lot of trouble for various reasons and I thought that article would have been helpful for you. Finally, like has been suggested to you, CALL a hospital as ASK them.

[Meringue]

Thanks to all who have given me info. Thats ok, I have the direction I need. I am expecting to face opposition and have done thorough research to understand both VB and c/s outcomes, so have made up my mind and am not going to change my decision. I really do feel that a c/s is the best for me for many many many reasons. I know now who to approach for the best for me and my family. My husband has also seen the research from all angles as he is heavily into evidence from both schools. He supports me completely as do his sister and mother who have also unfortunately had VBs end up in the theatre. And believe me they were both completely healthy, fit, and very athletic as well - especially his sister and myself.

Please understand that I feel bullied here, as I have NEVER and wouldnt even consider trying to change a womans mind about about her health decisions for delivery. I do not believe anyone has the right here to belittle my decision or to attempt to push their choices onto me, especially since I havent asked for advice, Ive asked for info on services. Please keep that in mind when posting. A persons body is his or her own, and each individual has the right to make their own health care choices, especially when those choices are well informed and supported by the people who matter - the family.

My recovery from surgery is my problem. I am ready to deal with that. I know whats involved. If my baby is delivered too early then clearly there is a medical indication prompting the need for an emergency c/s or an earlier delivery, and my decision to have an elective c/s has nothing to do with that. As for breastfeeding, I have seen countless women breastfeed their babies immediately post-op in the recovery room with no or minimal positional modifications. I have seen babies taken to neonatal intensive care from c/s and from VB. Its can happen either way. They are usually the ones born TOO early such as 26 weeks or thereabouts. Im not ignorant, Im not selfish, Im not pig headed. My decision is whats best for me. Please respect it and dont force your own ideas onto others.

I probably wont return to post here again, so thank to those who have actually respected my beliefs and decision,a nd have lent their support and help.

[Schmickers]

Wow, Meringue, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But you need to understand that just because this is a Caesarean Section Support forum, that does not mean we are required to support you in making a poor decision, a decision that has every likelihood of impacting both you and your baby negatively. This forum is an area that aims to support women from two main groups - those women who, through medical necessity or genuine emergency, have been left with no choice other than to have a caesarean birth, and those women who have been persuaded to have a cesarean in the past and are coming to terms with the fact that this decision might have been a poor one. To flippantly suggest that you want an elective caesarean and to persuade doctors to support you you will go "the psychologically traumatised angle" is disrespectful to both those groups.

I encourage you to explore your options further, and to make the right decision, for the right reasons, and I wish you and your baby the very best for your upcoming birth.

[Trillian]

Far out! I think you are projecting a lot of your uncertainty about this onto others and this is why you are getting aggressive and defensive about it. Honestly, I don't care how you choose to give birth, because it is none of my business but no matter what you choose your decision is respected by me 100% - that was never in question at any point in this thread. You asked for information and I tried to give it to you and all you've done is accuse me of disrespecting you when I haven't. I tried to explain to you that by the way you are posting that you may get some people offside and again you have said I have disrespected you. I have apologised to you because maybe I misunderstood your tone and that hasn't been enough. I have provided you with links to reading materials that may be of benefit because you asked for it and you tell me they aren't good enough because they are commercial. I'm really sorry but I don't see why you are the one that is feeling bullied? Again, I apologise again to you if you feel that you have been misunderstood by me because that was not my intention.

[fionas]

I believe I've seen Kelly, the founder of BB, write posts supporting women making informed choices for their circumstances (which the OP seems to be doing) regardless of medical necessity.

If that's not the case, could a moderator please shed more light on what the guidelines or stance of BellyBelly actually is because I'm getting mixed messages.

[Phteven]

Fiona, I'm not sure what you need clarification on. Perhaps if you are genuinly confused you could start a new thread in the forum help section.
Speaking entirely as a member here with my mod hat off (because I wouldn't want you to get confused about the BB stance).....
FWIW I don't see support as encouraging people to make choices which may not be in thier best interests, support can often take the form of offering additional information so that people can make a choice with more knowledge. Of course we have no way of knowing that people have already decided on a course of action and have no intention of doing any additional thinking on a matter until they tell us so.

[fionas]

Fiona, I'm not sure what you need clarification on. Perhaps if you are genuinly confused you could start a new thread in the forum help section.
Speaking entirely as a member here with my mod hat off (because I wouldn't want you to get confused about the BB stance).....
FWIW I don't see support as encouraging people to make choices which may not be in thier best interests, support can often take the form of offering additional information so that people can make a choice with more knowledge. Of course we have no way of knowing that people have already decided on a course of action and have no intention of doing any additional thinking on a matter until they tell us so.

WIthout going back and reading every word of the thread, the OP seems to have made it clear on a number of occasions that she is not interested (rightly or wrongly) in receiving more information about the pros and cons of her choices, only in receiving information on services.

In the meantime Schmickers has given me the impression that he will not respect her choice because he believes it is wrong. Kelly's posts on birth choices in the past, from memory, have said that she respects people's choices, even if they want an elective caesarean for non-medical reasons provided that they have weighed up the pros and cons because it is their choice.

I do see an anomaly here and I think it's pertinent to put it in this thread.

[~mamaspice~]

Hi Meringue,

Why dont you call the maternity unit of the hospital where you are thinking of delivering and have a chat to the maternity nursing unit manager there about their stance on a maternally requested elective caesarean. And as someone else mentioned, I would get your GP to give you a referral to the actual obstetric clinic at the hospital so you can talk to an obstetrician.

You may very well have an elective cs and be absolutely happy with your experience, and I wish you all the best with it.

As you can see from my signature I am hoping for a VBAC this time around.
I had an elective CS due to PIH, and apart from a bladder infection 3 days later, my physical recovery was awesome. So much better than I expected. I wish I could say the same for my emotional health and recovery though. See my CS ended up being under a GA because the anaesthetist couldn't get the epidural to work properly. He tried 4 times to get the epidual in but kept hitting bone (which sent an excruitiating pain running down my spine each time). Not being conscious for bubs birth was so upsetting and disappointing. So just bear in mind that not all CS's go to plan, not even elective ones.

Just one other thing I want to mention, And I doubt that medical journals document much about this. But when you have an elective CS. You don't have the rush of love and nurture hormones after bub is born, like you do after an uninterrupted vaginal delivery. You and your baby miss out on the whole physiological process and the coctail of hormones (oxytocin, adrenalin, nor-adrenalin & prolactin) that happen with vaginal delivery and missing out on this complex hormonal ****tail makes bonding much harder and also increases your chances of postnatal depression. So just bear this in mind so you are not surprised if you have bonding issues after your caesarean. Because it is very common. I can comment from experience in that department also. Not very nice at all .

best of luck with it all.

[Schmickers]

Oh, come on Fiona - you've been here long enough to know how the system works. There's been no purple posting in this thread, and no one is moderating in here. It's just you, me, and the other caring and concerned members of this forum. And the forum guidelines are quite clear: No flaming. No spamming. No posting pictures. Nothing, really, that has happened in this thread.

The OP asked where her decision to have an elective CS in the public system would be supported in Adelaide. The short answer is "probably nowhere", but out of respect for a new member, we decided she deserved a bit more information about why the public system doesn't offer elective caesarean any more.

Would I support her informed decision to have an elective caesarean section? Do you mean, would I blindly agree? No, I wouldn't. And to be honest, I think being "informed" by some very one-sided experience as a surgical nurse is not really an "informed" decision at all. There is a large body of research on the risks of caesarean section. As in all decision, the relative risks and benefits need to be weighed. Do the risks of a caesarean section outweigh the risks to a baby in foetal distress due to an obstructed labour, or the risks to both mother and baby in the case of a placenta praevia? Absolutely. Do they outweigh the risks in a normal vaginal birth where there are no compelling medical reasons to have a caesarean section? No, they do not. If the OP has been shown reputable, research-based evidence that indicates that a caesarean is the same or less risky than a vaginal birth, then she has been misled, and that is unfortunate.

We seek only to give information so that the women who post here can make a truly "informed" decision. If I chose to be "informed" by my experiences in hospital, and by the opinions of my friends and colleagues, I would never have had a homebirth; I would never have been lucky enough to experience three beautiful waterbirths. And I would never have taken the time to look into the research myself and discover the truth about homebirth.

[fionas]

Evidently I don't understand how the BB system works. Michael and Onyx, I am not being deliberately obtuse, I am genuinely interested/puzzled.

Michael, you have posted something about the intention of this forum as follows:

This forum is an area that aims to support women from two main groups - those women who, through medical necessity or genuine emergency, have been left with no choice other than to have a caesarean birth, and those women who have been persuaded to have a cesarean in the past and are coming to terms with the fact that this decision might have been a poor one.

If that's the case then I suggest that some notes are put into the forum similar to the ones listed in the Obstetrician section. If the section is not for women seeking information on an elective caesarean, then it would be helpful if that was explicit. Maybe there is another section specifically for that reason - I have to confess I haven't looked.

As I said before, however, my understanding is that Kelly is supportive of all birth choices because at the end of the day provided that women are informed, it is their body, their choice. Deciding whether women ARE informed and have or have not read the 'right' material is always going to be a little subjective. Obviously, if a woman comes in saying that she has been told by her plumber that caeaareans are better, she has not done her research but other cases may not be as clear.

Apart from research, women's feelings are always going to come into play and they are a valid part of the overall mix. As you may have guessed, I am veering towards having an elective caesarean myself. In my particular case there is evidence FOR it exacerbating my underlying health condition and evidence against. There is no clearcut evidence either way so I have to make a call. The people who are advising me to have a VB are the very same ones who told me that the condition would go away soon after my last vaginal birth. It didn't - it took 18 months so why would I believe them? And if the research is ambiguous, then the only thing I can rely on is my feelings. That's why I'm saying they are a valid part of the mix.

I guess I was just a little surprised that there wasn't a common party line/stance/whatever you want to call it on birth choices. If moderators don't necessarily agree with Kelly, that's fine - I just presumed that their posts would reflect what I've seen her write in the past. I learn something new every day.

[Schmickers]

You know what? I think that in my enthusiasm to try and help someone make an informed choice - a truly informed choice - I may have been insensitive, and for that I apologise. I'd like to think I am a big enough man to admit when I am wrong, and several people have suggested to me that my passion might be interpreted as judgement of the OPs choices. For that I am sorry.

This forum is an area that aims to support women from two main groups - those women who, through medical necessity or genuine emergency, have been left with no choice other than to have a caesarean birth, and those women who have been persuaded to have a cesarean in the past and are coming to terms with the fact that this decision might have been a poor one.

This is no "official policy statement" of any sort - it is merely my interpretation of the two largest groups of people who use this forum. I apologise if it sounded otherwise, and I am not trying to marginalise anyone else who has chosen to have a caesarean section that is not included in the two groups I outlined above. I'd like to think, though, that my point still stands:

To flippantly suggest that you want an elective caesarean and to persuade doctors to support you, you will go "the psychologically traumatised angle" is disrespectful to both those groups.

Which I believe it is.

I will bow out of this thread, now, as I think it has become controversial enough, and once more, offer my apologies to anyone whom I may have inadvertently offended. If anyone has any more concerns about anything I have posted, you can feel free to PM me, to email me, or to discuss it with any of the other moderators. Also, you can feel free to use the Report Post button in the top corner of any post you are concerned about - posts reported in this way go straight to the entire moderating team to be discussed.