need info

[Meringue]

Marydean! That is BRILLIANT news! Ill contact them right away! Thank you thank you, maybe I can get some sleep tonight (Ive been losing nights becaus of this!)

Hopefully things havent changed since then, but at least Ill get some answers and direction

Brilliant

[Trillian]

Well what books have you read so far?
Have a read of these articles, they may be of help to you
Breastfeeding After A Caesarean Birth
Caesarean Sections - What Actually Happens?
Caesareans: What to Expect After A Caesarean Section
Epidurals - What Are The Risks For Mother and Baby? - not intended to alarm, but just so you have an idea of what to expect

and this title here
Caesarean Birth… Making Informed Choices (Birthrites Booklet, AUS) I don't know where you would get this from though.

[Meringue]

I dont read the commercial books on medical subjects, I have access to the most recent medical research journals, and have actually studied this stuff. I know the medical, recovery, surgical etc etc side of things - more than any guide book could tell me. Trust me - I know all the risks, pros, cons and more. I just need to know where in Adelaide my rights will be respected based on knowledgeable, well-informed, decision-making. I certainly dont need anyone to push their views onto me, when I already know this stuff. I dont try to persuade anyone to change theirs minds when they say they want a natural birth, so why should others try to persuade me to go through a process that I absolutely believe is not the best for me? Im not asking for opinions, or info on c/s, Im asking for info on SERVICES in ADELAIDE! Dont push for a VB, Im not pushing anyone into a c/s.

By the way, as far as readng articles bout what happens during or after a c-section, didnt I already say that I have scrubbed for a c-section??? I think I know what to expect. I have also looked after women in recovery and in the post-surgical wards after a c-section, so I know about the recovery and how to manage pain and wounds - its my job!

[Miss H]

Perhaps your best bet would be to make an appointment to see someone who can advise you on this. Whether it be a midwife or OB at a PH or a private OB who will practice at a PH or a GP. I respect your decision. I hope you get what you want. Oh, and welcome to BB. Your first thread has not been a very welcoming one, but I hope you go on to form some good relationships here. There are many women who will give you good advice. I hope you get some sleep tonight. Trust that everything will turn out the way it should.

[Meringue]

Thanks Miss H, your comment is appreciated. I definately feel a little better from the bits of good advice most of you have given me, and will certainly look into your suggestions. Thanks also to those of you who support personal wishes and decisions. Pregnancy is a major event as Im sure you all agree, and I think support, advice, and understanding is an enormous component to having a good pregnancy : )

[Schmickers]

Didn't the OP ask about how things are done in SA, not what people though about her choice or preference?

Sometimes, it can be a bit hard to separate the two, though, can't it?

Meringue, as the others have told you, the increased risk to the baby have meant that most doctors in the public system will not offer a caesarean section unless there are good medical grounds. And you may run into some opposition of your grounds are psychologicsl trauma. IT is more risky - as a surgical nurse, you have seen the surgical side of it, but unless you've worked in a special care nursery, you are probably lucky enough to have been insulated against seeing the effects that being born too soon / too quickly has on the baby itself.

I certainly respect that for some people, the thought of a vaginal birth is quite scary. But I'd love to know what you are referring too when you speak of "damage" as the most common types of damage that occur during pregnancy and birth - such as "damage" to the pelvic floor - actually occur during the pregnancy moreso than the birth.

I don't want to come across as anti-caesarean, because trust me, I'm not - CS is a lifesaving tool, but it should be used at the right time. I just don't think caesarean section is the right solution to this problem of fear. Not when it adds a whole new raft of problems.

[e_p]

I really hope you're able to find a care provider who will support your decision - I'm sure there are dozens of women on here who can understand how difficult it can be to find a care provider who will support their right to autonomy (I'm thinking of VBACers, elective c/sections through public system without medical indication and homebirthers).

I'm sorry that you have witnessed so many VB's gone wrong - that's obviously had a huge impact on your view and I'm am genuinely sorry for any trauma you have experienced in your role as an RN.

I also wonder though...all the natural births you have seen gone wrong...I wonder how many of them were true 'natural births' as opposed to attempted VBs with a multitide of interventions that increase the likelihood of emergency c-section? Just a thought...

All the best with your search,

[Trillian]

OK, I give up, I have tried to help you and I'm sorry if my links were too commercial for you - you didn't specify that you were only interested in scientific and medical journal articles. Clearly I have offended you again although I was only trying to help and I don't think you can possibly know it all simply because you are a scrub nurse. Like the breastfeeding article for example, I assume that you aren't on the wards with post-op mothers trying to establish BF are you? Some women post-op have a lot of trouble for various reasons and I thought that article would have been helpful for you. Finally, like has been suggested to you, CALL a hospital as ASK them.

[Meringue]

Thanks to all who have given me info. Thats ok, I have the direction I need. I am expecting to face opposition and have done thorough research to understand both VB and c/s outcomes, so have made up my mind and am not going to change my decision. I really do feel that a c/s is the best for me for many many many reasons. I know now who to approach for the best for me and my family. My husband has also seen the research from all angles as he is heavily into evidence from both schools. He supports me completely as do his sister and mother who have also unfortunately had VBs end up in the theatre. And believe me they were both completely healthy, fit, and very athletic as well - especially his sister and myself.

Please understand that I feel bullied here, as I have NEVER and wouldnt even consider trying to change a womans mind about about her health decisions for delivery. I do not believe anyone has the right here to belittle my decision or to attempt to push their choices onto me, especially since I havent asked for advice, Ive asked for info on services. Please keep that in mind when posting. A persons body is his or her own, and each individual has the right to make their own health care choices, especially when those choices are well informed and supported by the people who matter - the family.

My recovery from surgery is my problem. I am ready to deal with that. I know whats involved. If my baby is delivered too early then clearly there is a medical indication prompting the need for an emergency c/s or an earlier delivery, and my decision to have an elective c/s has nothing to do with that. As for breastfeeding, I have seen countless women breastfeed their babies immediately post-op in the recovery room with no or minimal positional modifications. I have seen babies taken to neonatal intensive care from c/s and from VB. Its can happen either way. They are usually the ones born TOO early such as 26 weeks or thereabouts. Im not ignorant, Im not selfish, Im not pig headed. My decision is whats best for me. Please respect it and dont force your own ideas onto others.

I probably wont return to post here again, so thank to those who have actually respected my beliefs and decision,a nd have lent their support and help.

[Schmickers]

Wow, Meringue, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But you need to understand that just because this is a Caesarean Section Support forum, that does not mean we are required to support you in making a poor decision, a decision that has every likelihood of impacting both you and your baby negatively. This forum is an area that aims to support women from two main groups - those women who, through medical necessity or genuine emergency, have been left with no choice other than to have a caesarean birth, and those women who have been persuaded to have a cesarean in the past and are coming to terms with the fact that this decision might have been a poor one. To flippantly suggest that you want an elective caesarean and to persuade doctors to support you you will go "the psychologically traumatised angle" is disrespectful to both those groups.

I encourage you to explore your options further, and to make the right decision, for the right reasons, and I wish you and your baby the very best for your upcoming birth.

[Trillian]

Far out! I think you are projecting a lot of your uncertainty about this onto others and this is why you are getting aggressive and defensive about it. Honestly, I don't care how you choose to give birth, because it is none of my business but no matter what you choose your decision is respected by me 100% - that was never in question at any point in this thread. You asked for information and I tried to give it to you and all you've done is accuse me of disrespecting you when I haven't. I tried to explain to you that by the way you are posting that you may get some people offside and again you have said I have disrespected you. I have apologised to you because maybe I misunderstood your tone and that hasn't been enough. I have provided you with links to reading materials that may be of benefit because you asked for it and you tell me they aren't good enough because they are commercial. I'm really sorry but I don't see why you are the one that is feeling bullied? Again, I apologise again to you if you feel that you have been misunderstood by me because that was not my intention.

[fionas]

I believe I've seen Kelly, the founder of BB, write posts supporting women making informed choices for their circumstances (which the OP seems to be doing) regardless of medical necessity.

If that's not the case, could a moderator please shed more light on what the guidelines or stance of BellyBelly actually is because I'm getting mixed messages.

[Phteven]

Fiona, I'm not sure what you need clarification on. Perhaps if you are genuinly confused you could start a new thread in the forum help section.
Speaking entirely as a member here with my mod hat off (because I wouldn't want you to get confused about the BB stance).....
FWIW I don't see support as encouraging people to make choices which may not be in thier best interests, support can often take the form of offering additional information so that people can make a choice with more knowledge. Of course we have no way of knowing that people have already decided on a course of action and have no intention of doing any additional thinking on a matter until they tell us so.

[fionas]

Fiona, I'm not sure what you need clarification on. Perhaps if you are genuinly confused you could start a new thread in the forum help section.
Speaking entirely as a member here with my mod hat off (because I wouldn't want you to get confused about the BB stance).....
FWIW I don't see support as encouraging people to make choices which may not be in thier best interests, support can often take the form of offering additional information so that people can make a choice with more knowledge. Of course we have no way of knowing that people have already decided on a course of action and have no intention of doing any additional thinking on a matter until they tell us so.

WIthout going back and reading every word of the thread, the OP seems to have made it clear on a number of occasions that she is not interested (rightly or wrongly) in receiving more information about the pros and cons of her choices, only in receiving information on services.

In the meantime Schmickers has given me the impression that he will not respect her choice because he believes it is wrong. Kelly's posts on birth choices in the past, from memory, have said that she respects people's choices, even if they want an elective caesarean for non-medical reasons provided that they have weighed up the pros and cons because it is their choice.

I do see an anomaly here and I think it's pertinent to put it in this thread.

[Schmickers]

Oh, come on Fiona - you've been here long enough to know how the system works. There's been no purple posting in this thread, and no one is moderating in here. It's just you, me, and the other caring and concerned members of this forum. And the forum guidelines are quite clear: No flaming. No spamming. No posting pictures. Nothing, really, that has happened in this thread.

The OP asked where her decision to have an elective CS in the public system would be supported in Adelaide. The short answer is "probably nowhere", but out of respect for a new member, we decided she deserved a bit more information about why the public system doesn't offer elective caesarean any more.

Would I support her informed decision to have an elective caesarean section? Do you mean, would I blindly agree? No, I wouldn't. And to be honest, I think being "informed" by some very one-sided experience as a surgical nurse is not really an "informed" decision at all. There is a large body of research on the risks of caesarean section. As in all decision, the relative risks and benefits need to be weighed. Do the risks of a caesarean section outweigh the risks to a baby in foetal distress due to an obstructed labour, or the risks to both mother and baby in the case of a placenta praevia? Absolutely. Do they outweigh the risks in a normal vaginal birth where there are no compelling medical reasons to have a caesarean section? No, they do not. If the OP has been shown reputable, research-based evidence that indicates that a caesarean is the same or less risky than a vaginal birth, then she has been misled, and that is unfortunate.

We seek only to give information so that the women who post here can make a truly "informed" decision. If I chose to be "informed" by my experiences in hospital, and by the opinions of my friends and colleagues, I would never have had a homebirth; I would never have been lucky enough to experience three beautiful waterbirths. And I would never have taken the time to look into the research myself and discover the truth about homebirth.

[~mamaspice~]

Hi Meringue,

Why dont you call the maternity unit of the hospital where you are thinking of delivering and have a chat to the maternity nursing unit manager there about their stance on a maternally requested elective caesarean. And as someone else mentioned, I would get your GP to give you a referral to the actual obstetric clinic at the hospital so you can talk to an obstetrician.

You may very well have an elective cs and be absolutely happy with your experience, and I wish you all the best with it.

As you can see from my signature I am hoping for a VBAC this time around.
I had an elective CS due to PIH, and apart from a bladder infection 3 days later, my physical recovery was awesome. So much better than I expected. I wish I could say the same for my emotional health and recovery though. See my CS ended up being under a GA because the anaesthetist couldn't get the epidural to work properly. He tried 4 times to get the epidual in but kept hitting bone (which sent an excruitiating pain running down my spine each time). Not being conscious for bubs birth was so upsetting and disappointing. So just bear in mind that not all CS's go to plan, not even elective ones.

Just one other thing I want to mention, And I doubt that medical journals document much about this. But when you have an elective CS. You don't have the rush of love and nurture hormones after bub is born, like you do after an uninterrupted vaginal delivery. You and your baby miss out on the whole physiological process and the coctail of hormones (oxytocin, adrenalin, nor-adrenalin & prolactin) that happen with vaginal delivery and missing out on this complex hormonal ****tail makes bonding much harder and also increases your chances of postnatal depression. So just bear this in mind so you are not surprised if you have bonding issues after your caesarean. Because it is very common. I can comment from experience in that department also. Not very nice at all .

best of luck with it all.

[fionas]

Evidently I don't understand how the BB system works. Michael and Onyx, I am not being deliberately obtuse, I am genuinely interested/puzzled.

Michael, you have posted something about the intention of this forum as follows:

This forum is an area that aims to support women from two main groups - those women who, through medical necessity or genuine emergency, have been left with no choice other than to have a caesarean birth, and those women who have been persuaded to have a cesarean in the past and are coming to terms with the fact that this decision might have been a poor one.

If that's the case then I suggest that some notes are put into the forum similar to the ones listed in the Obstetrician section. If the section is not for women seeking information on an elective caesarean, then it would be helpful if that was explicit. Maybe there is another section specifically for that reason - I have to confess I haven't looked.

As I said before, however, my understanding is that Kelly is supportive of all birth choices because at the end of the day provided that women are informed, it is their body, their choice. Deciding whether women ARE informed and have or have not read the 'right' material is always going to be a little subjective. Obviously, if a woman comes in saying that she has been told by her plumber that caeaareans are better, she has not done her research but other cases may not be as clear.

Apart from research, women's feelings are always going to come into play and they are a valid part of the overall mix. As you may have guessed, I am veering towards having an elective caesarean myself. In my particular case there is evidence FOR it exacerbating my underlying health condition and evidence against. There is no clearcut evidence either way so I have to make a call. The people who are advising me to have a VB are the very same ones who told me that the condition would go away soon after my last vaginal birth. It didn't - it took 18 months so why would I believe them? And if the research is ambiguous, then the only thing I can rely on is my feelings. That's why I'm saying they are a valid part of the mix.

I guess I was just a little surprised that there wasn't a common party line/stance/whatever you want to call it on birth choices. If moderators don't necessarily agree with Kelly, that's fine - I just presumed that their posts would reflect what I've seen her write in the past. I learn something new every day.

[Rosie's Mum]

Come on guys, where's the love?

I've come to know this to be a caring and supportive forum and I've just read all these posts and I can understand why Meringue feels bullied. We all have our own reasons for the way we want to give birth, breastfeed, disicpline our kids etc etc and we have to have respect for others choices. I often read people's post and totally disagree with their choices but unless they are asking for advice I keep it to myself.

If you don't want people telling you you're doing the wrong thing for breastfeeding in a cafe or having a homebirth then create some good karma and give the gift of acceptance and tolerance.