Registered User
I dont hold grudges anymore. A few years ago I had a fairly big confrontation with a friend of mine who I thought was doing something "wrong" but I realized that it was simply my opinion and I was judging him on what he was doing when the truth was simple, I created a meaning out of what he was doing and judged him.
I thought about it for a long time and the more I think about it the less it makes sense to hold a grudge, there is simply no point. These days for me it is quite easy to let things go and simply accept people for who they are...simply because thats who they are.
Also I learned that for me to let go and to move on, I need to forgive myself for having judged the other person or for having done something that caused harm to others.
There is no secret formula that works for everyone which will make it so you wont ever hold a grudge. For me the most effective tool I use to gain clarity about certain things is 'self-enquiry'.
Registered User
See this is the thing - I can get to this point, quite easily. I can understand, accept who they are, and even empathise, sometimes, with how the other person has acted. But where I struggle is, I find this small part of me, like a little voice that is saying - 'wait - you don't want to understand!! this person did WRONG!! don't be all nice and understanding about it!'
There is a part of me that wants to hold a grudge, even though my heart's not in it? I don't get it :/
Registered User
To get at the underlying reason you want/'need' to hold a grudge, ask yourself 'What would it mean to let go of the grudge? What would it mean if I were "all nice and understanding about it"?
Keep asking these types of questions to the answers you give yourself and you'll eventually get down to a central belief (about either yourself or others). Does that make sense? So it might go something like:
- Q: What would it mean if I were understanding about it and let go of the grudge?
- A: It would mean that I was being too nice.
- Q: What would it mean if I was too nice?
- A: It would mean that others might take advantage of me
- Q: What difference does it make if others take advantage of me?
- A: It would mean that I am weak/vulnerable/naieve *insert other adjectives as appropriate*
So in this example, the person has a core belief that they should not be or appear to be weak to others. Its not the reality of the situation that's driving behaviour, its the belief.
I hope this process makes sense. It doesn't translate well and I could explain it better in person. I have just made up the above example and have no idea what belief lies underneath grudges for you. Try to answer with the first thing that comes to mind or the first feeling you have about the question.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Holding a grudge is holding yourself to pain. You're still energetically tied to that person/situation. Yeah some people (just like us sometimes!) do some messed up stuff. But that's their stuff. Nothing to do with you at all so no need to take it on. Kindness is such an honourable trait to have.
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
Registered User
How do u not grudge? How do u find forgiveness???
Love MN ;-)
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Like everything it is a choice. You can sit there right now, close your eyes, focus and put yourself in a state of anger, hate, frustration... Or grattitude, love, appreciation.... So you can choose to free yourself from the burden of a grudge too. It took me some time to learn how, but I chose to invest in me, by choosing amazing people to study, follow and participate in seminars. And I tell you, life couldnt be any better right now. I used to be a 'victim' all the time, I chose to be, I didnt know how not to be... But its truly as simple as that. Choose gratitude, so many beautiful things in your life to be grateful for.
I wish you all could have experienced what I have since Thursday. I even walked on fire!!!
Kelly xx
Registered User
Ok sorry for hijacking.
But.... How does that work, I can understand the thinking positive and concentrating on those positive things, this is something that I have been tying to do (but not getting very far some days) but when it comes to grudges, I don't know how to stop, I feel physically sick thinking of MIL. I can't help it I hate her actions, and it's going to sound horribly mean I hate who she is as a person for everything she did and didn't too.
Love MN ;-)
Registered User
I understand what you mean and believe me it took me a while to get this, when I got it I kinda felt like a fool because I realized I was judging myself in away. What I realized first is when I thought "thats wrong", judging that person, the big "aha" moment was when I discovered that first of all that it was not true, it was only my opinion, thats it! And even my opinion was not even true, it was just me creating this illusion that what that person did is wrong and often we from that we create a story in our mind and get very attached to that story. There was a part of me that would not want to accept what I've come to realize (I was very attached to my story lol), but the more I thought about it the clearer it became obvious to me that when I judged someone, anyone, I'm only judging them according to my values and believes. We all have our own unique view of life and to judge someone saying "thats wrong" is like saying "your view of life is wrong" because it doesnt match our own values/believes etc. So accepting that, to me, was very powerful, relieving and made my life a lot more peaceful.
Registered User
I see what you are saying...
It is almost as if there is a part of me that doesn't want to move on. Does that make sense? I know the truth in what you say, but in that moment when I am angry, I don't care. I don't want to accept anyone else's view of life, I don't want to see how they might be that way, I don't want to understand. It is a very base kind of mentality that rears up.... and there is a prt of my mind that realises how base it is, and that I know better, but there is also a part of me that just doesn't care - I want to stay in the anger.
I just keep forcing myself up & over it & think that eventually with time my thought processes will change, I guess, but I'd like to understand what it is that makes staying in that down & dirty anger, so attractive....
ETA - it's almost as if sometimes it would be too easy to forgive & move on. Like I want to be angry for a bit longer first? why would I want to be like that? It's not a state that comes naturally to me, my inclination is more to empathise (and often because I can empathise, I can forgive more easily) but there is a part of me that fights against it...
sorry, didn't mean to hog the thread :/
Last edited by Fleur; March 7th, 2011 at 09:57 PM. : adding
Registered User
I understand what you're saying here Colin and I do agree to a point. The stories we tell ourselves are amazingly powerful. I think this is very true in lots of circumstances but the times when people are most likely to hold grudges are the times when they feel harmed by another's behaviour. When a person actively puts another person at risk (physically, emotionally, whatever), then community standards would say "thats wrong". It's all kind of on the same continuum for me. Minor insults from another person or being snubbed etc are usually seen as being 'wrong'. I can see the value in changing my perception of that person to let go of the hurt. If I change my expectations of them (i.e. that they'll be polite) then I won't feel any grudge towards them. But what about if they rob me a knife point? Kidnap my child? Murder a family member? I'm going to have a grudge and it's going to be very hard to convince me that it's just my values or beliefs that create the grudge/ill feeling. I think there are some general, basic standards of behaviour that we all expect from others. And that will lead to grudges if those standards are not met. And I know victims of crime can forgive their perpetrators, but that is a process that can take a long time and a lot of hard work. The grudge is there initially.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Tony Robbins talks about 6 human needs - will post more about it later (getting sick of iphone typing!). when we are out of balance with an issue like this, we're operating out of one of those needs too much. It fills a need in us and until we realise it and change it, we'll always be stuck there and not grow.
The six needs are 4 main essential ones and two ideal ones for real growth:
Certainty
Uncertainty/Variety
Significance
Connection/Love
Growth
Contribution
Maybe Colin can give a second opinion, he's been doing this much longer than me, but I think this situation fuels your need for certainty. I'll explain it more tomorrow but basically we all need certainty, but at a high level it can be destructive.
Kelly xx
Registered User
What does your anger give you Fleur? I think it must be giving you something positive in the short term to want to hold onto it.
For me, when I am angry with others and holding onto it, my anger gives me a sense of (false) energy about the situation (especially if there isn't actually anything I can do to change it) and it keeps me feeling like I am in the right, I am ok. It's kind of self affirming in a way. Anger is usually a cover-up emotion for something else. It is the great pretender and hides a multitude of other feelings, like an iceberg, most of it is submerged underneath.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
A criminal is a perfect example of someone who has a lack of human needs being fulfilled or operating at high levels of needs, so you can begin ti see how powerful this is:
imagine someone holding another at knifepoint. He has met a need for significance, clearly, someone holding a knife at my throat would be pretty significant in my life at that moment. Uncertainty/variety, as who knows whats going to happen next. Blood adrenaline pumping away, the rush. Connection with another human, one on one, even though its not possitive connection. Certainty fits in there as well.
When you seek to meet all those needs (I think Robbins says 3 or more) at high levels its highly destructive.
We all have needs to be met, its natural, a criminal no example, they just dont have the tools to help them, so they resort to desperate measures. We all have one in that list that is most important to us. But it can get out of control and result in dramas.
Fear also stops us from moving forward, taking action, being our best. But in order for things to change for you, you must change.
Last edited by BellyBelly; March 7th, 2011 at 10:27 PM.
Kelly xx
Registered User
Fleur, I see what you are saying and I will post more about this tomorrow, Im super tired and just about to fall asleep lol. Good night everyone, sweet dreams :-)
Btw, awesome thread!
Registered User
For me, I reckon the person I would grudge against is hurting themselves enough without me helping. In fact, me holding a grudge against them allows them to say "I was wrong, but look how bad she is being to me" - painting me as the villain.
I am not a nice, selfless, happy person. I have planned my panoramic lounge on my volcanic island base, how to cross-breed sharks with turtles (just want to see people swim to the edge of the pool and the shark get out too...), how to threaten world governments... I am basically a supervillain. Whose minions all have photo ID and helmets that show the face. And believe me, niceness kills people who I would normally grudge against. Realised that years ago. (I think the Bible puts it as "heaping hot coals on your enemy's head" which I like.)
Having said all that, I cannot forgive my mother over some things. They hurt, even when I try to "get over" them. I don't know what to do about it, save just know in my heart that I'm better than the people she loves more than me. Don't I just love being the better person (!). But then again, she's unrepentant about these things. If she were at all ever sorry for hurting me, I could forgive her and move on. She doesn't see a problem when I highlight it for her, and keeps doing what I request she stops doing. I figure it must be hurting her that she doesn't even know where I work, because I cannot trust her enough to tell her even that. She is hurting herself by being untrustworthy and mean. And I am relaxed because here is part of my life she cannot try to walk into and throw into chaos.
It's another perspective. If you want to hold a grudge well, let it go. See the other person sweat even more. Works for me!
Registered User
I struggled with this as well. I spent years being upset and hurt over her (and his families) actions but in the end I just had to let it go, they are who they are, they will always be that way and never be the grandparents I want them to be. I don't like her but I don't give her enough thought to hate her.
I remove my kids from situations where they can be hurt by them, I don't hold a grudge but I don't play happy families because they do not deserve that from myself or my children.
BellyBelly Member
MummaNurse - I don't think that it is about forgetting everything that has ever happened to you and living in a land of sunshine and lollipops
It is a choice to put your energy into appreciating what you do have and focussing on that. I have huge issues with my PIL - who would not treat us with any level of respect no matter how much we asked them to. We put our energy into letting them know how we felt for a while - in a very respectful way, we didn't play their games. There is nothing wrong with feeling how you feel either. It is okay to be upset/hurt/angry etc and acknowledge how you feel. Nothing is every going to be solved by pretending that you don't feel that way. I think it is about expressing those feelings in a way that is appropriate though. We could have tried to 'get back' at my PIL for being so rude or even outrightly mean, but the only people that would have hurt in the end was us. There was no point.
Life isn't without pain. No amount of positive thinking will change that fact, but it is how we handle the pain that will make a difference to ourselves. My PIL will never realise how they have hurt us and I have gotten to a point where I don't care if they do or they don't realise. They are so busy being victims at the moment and that is their choice. I can't change them, I can't make them feel a certain way. All I can do is express to them how I feel, tell them what I want them to do differently and leave it with them to make the choice. They chose to be victims and never change. It is not a healthy relationship for us or for our children so we have walked away. I am not punishing them or trying to get revenge - it is simply that the relationship is so one sided and we are always losing. We needed to free ourselves from it - the decision was completely about us and what is good for our family and really nothing to do with them at all.
We just focus on making our lives as great as they can be and focus on appreciating what we have. We don't put time or energy into relationships where we aren't respected. Nothing to do with the people who aren't showing us respect and everything to do with us having the freedom to enjoy life.
We make our choices with what is best for us in mind and not because we are driven by hurting other people (which is holding a grudge). Hope that makes sense
Registered User
Great thread Onyx. I don't think holding a grudge so to speak is really that healthy. I think what's more important is for people to learn how to to honor themselves. If someone genuienly does something which is disrespectful or hurtful to you and isn't sorry or put in place steps to make sure it doesn't happen again or if someone is just a repeat offender why do so many people choose to keep those people who make them feel like crap in their lives? It really is OK for those people to behave like that, that's obviously just where they are at. You do get to choose however who you share your life with, family, friends or otherwise. Even if they are to stay in your life due to necesatiy you can certainly limit contact with them without it eating you up inside that that person has wronged you in some way. I have a great ability to not be angry but to really let go of it and let go of the person to whatever extent is necessary. Some may look at this as running away from the problem but I don't. If I was burning mad inside then yes culling anyone from you life that upsets you is not dealing with things. I tend to more just honor what path others are on and most importantly honor what works for me and what doesn't. An example of this is that I haven't spoken to my brother in a couple of years now. We were VERY close growing up and for much of our adult life. I tried to gently help him with his personal growth whenever 'he' asked for it. An incident happened where he made up the wrong thing, we didn't have an all out argument, in fact one sentence was said by him and as a result I have cut him loose to live, grow and learn without effecting my life. That is not a grudge at all as I hold no anger over any of it and I'm pretty sure he doesn't either even though 'he' was p!ssed off at the time. One day when he has moved forward I will still be here as I still think he is worthy of my time and love. Other people who do things that are wrong or hurtful I can still forgive and not hold a grudge but I will still distance them from my life if they have shown themselves to be someone I don't want to spend my time with.
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks