thread: Preventing the early sexualisation of our children

  1. #37
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    1,350

    But beyond our own children, it is *good* to be active in opposing those very things that make it difficult societally to buck the trend, don't you think, for the sake of everyone else as well? Wouldn't it be good if there weren't hundreds and hundreds of small things everywhere that added up to this huge culture oppressing our kids? Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to constantly be talking, talking, talking, to overcome these influences?


    Oh my goodness am I right in feeling my opinions are not welcomed in this thread! You have quoted and shot me down on two comments, I made a suggestion to talk, talk talk, trying to help, I can't change the world, ie hundreds and hundreds of small things everywhere, opressing our children.

    IMO if you want to be "good" at opposing the very things, to buck the trend, contact the maker

    We can change the world, with the hundreds and hundreds of little children that have an open honest relationship with their parents, talking to them, encouriging them, it starts at home ... and talking happens on BB all the time, that's what we do.

    Your post offended me
    Last edited by Bengal; July 29th, 2009 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #38
    BellyBelly Life Member - Love all your MCN friends
    Add Gigi on Facebook

    Jun 2004
    The Festival State
    3,008

    DD 7 still has not worn a two piece.
    my 2.5yo wears a two piece to swimming lessons and the beach.

    it's a longsleeve rashie top and a pair of knee shorts made out of the same fabric. she's so fair skinned, so it's all about sun protection to me. Also, i think of making it easier for her to go the toilet, whilst wearing her "swimmers".

    bright bots sell longer swim shorts at the anti skin council shop in my city, i can't afford their rash tops, but the shorts are ok. the swim shorts i see in the "usual shops" are VERY short and don't cover much.

    I agree with you Maz, about the gender stereotyping of toys. i think many toys (think the recent toy catalogues) are absolutely divided, there are pages of GIRL toys, painted hot pink, pages of BOY toys, painted with skulls, camoflage, pirates etc. such obvious delineation by the toy marketers. the branding, the franchising, is so limiting, not just to genders, but also to age groups.

    e.g kids who when they feel "that's for babies", will demand an entirely new toy, bedroom linen etc, JUST because whatever it is, has a particular image plastered all over it.

    it seems expensive to me, to buy new bed linen etc, every time a child grows out of a phase, when that bed linen, matching curtains, etc might still have life in it. i cannot afford to do that, so have bought neutral stuff.

    e.g i aim to buy a totally plain, wooden dollhouse for bilby's 3rd birthday. Not a totally painted, decorated, pink dollhouse from the toy catalogue. i want to give her somethign "open ended" so SHE can decide how to decorate it and use it different ways, each time she plays with it.

    the wooden, cloth, metal toys websites hold much more interest for me now, than the toysrus, target, kmart etc catalogues. That way i can avoid the sexualised toys and get less but better quality toys.

    i have a Steiner doll and two organic cotton cloth dolls for bilby, they are easier for her little hands to hold and play with and no plastic fumes. (the lino all through the unit, i am sure gives us plenty of plastic fumes already).

    i think, that due to our isolation (only one relative, who gives bilby shoes for her birthday, nothing for xmas), i don't have to deal with others giving bilby stuff i don't want her having e.g sexualised dolls. So i get off lightly there.

    we don't have teh saturday morning music clips on anymore, but it does cross my mind, while watching So You THink you can dance, and Dancing with the stars, the sexualisation thing. The emphasis the judges place on sex in dancing competitions and also in how a song is performed e.g Idol.

    PS i have seen bralettes in size 3 at the "usual shops"!!!

    i agree with Maz, do some shopping AWAY from the "usual shops" (when you can).

  3. #39
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Inner South East suburbs Melbourne
    1,213

    Oh my goodness am I right in feeling my opinions are not welcomed in this thread! You have quoted and shot me down on two comments, I made a suggestion to talk, talk talk, trying to help, I can't change the world, ie hundreds and hundreds of small things everywhere, opressing our children.

    IMO if you want to be "good" at opposing the very things, to buck the trend, contact the maker

    We can change the world, with the hundreds and hundreds of little children that have an open honest relationship with their parents, talking to them, encouriging them, it starts at home ... and talking happens on BB all the time, that's what we do.

    Your post offended me
    I think you are overreacting just a little. I simply responded to a couple of points you made over a subject about which I feel very strongly. I did so very respectfully. It's not a discussion if we don't seek to exchange ideas.

  4. #40
    Registered User

    Nov 2008
    NSW Mid North Coast
    681

    Besides all the issues mentioned, such as dolls, music shows etc I think sexual messages are actually happening right from birth. I have posted about this before and no offense to others who purchase this clothing but I find alot of the slogan's on baby jumpsuits and todder t-shirts appauling - 'i'm a tits man', 'the condom broke', 'blondes have more fun', 'caution - blonde thinking', 'i-pood'.
    These are sexual/adult messages on our babies, children see this and realise that an adult has dressed their baby in this type of clothing and the message is reinforced.
    It is up to us to role model what's appropriate for our children.
    I also think that some children's bikini's are very sexual but I also think that sometimes it's ok to wear a 2 piece when it's really hot (as it gets here) and you are just running under the hose in the shade. I played in my undies in the yard and it certainly wasn't viewed as sexual. Teaching your child to have self respect and a healthy body image doesn't mean they must always be covered from top to toe.

  5. #41
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber

    Nov 2004
    Bonnie Doon
    4,566

    hmm interesting topic...

    I only have 3 very little boys at the moment so really haven't had to deal with this as yet...however, I think "hiding" everything from children is only going to work to a point...I mean obviously I'm not talking about exposing them to age inappropriate things but more those unavoidable things...
    Isn't it better than we talk them through these things and explain why it may be inappropriate??? I have watched for a reaction of ds1 (nearly 4yo) face sometime from a magazine cover or something on tv and he just doesn't have one (yet!) but I suppose what I'm saying is that often it's us making a bigger deal than the kids!!
    I remember going on shopping trips with my mum and had what was probably considered skimpy clothes at the time - I remember watching video clips that were very sexual but I didn't notice at the time - and I was probably about 10+....to me back then I loved clothes and shopping with mum and I loved dancing to music! Completely Innocent!!!

    I think the biggest way to protect your children is to teach them from the beginning core values, self esteem etc and I really think you'll find that it won't be a big issue...

    I think sometimes it's important to be careful not banning things or making too much of a fuss because often kids (teenagers) will rebel and want what they can't have....

    All in balance I say...

    If you put a 3yo in a bikini for swimming do you think she's going to know any different really??? She's going to think - I"m going swimming - woohoo!

    I agree with an earlier post - it's just the sicko's that have a problem with this and if they're around it doesn't matter what you dress your kids in...

    I do not have a problem letting my boys run around in the nude - I would rather them grow up comfortable in their skin and not self conscious....I think there's more issues with girls growing up with body image issues and self esteem issues than there are girls that grow up to be strippers iykwim???

    I guess what I'm saying is - I agree with the thread and I can understand everyone wanting to protect their children 100% but I think the best way to achieve this is through balance and leading by example...and being open and honest about these things...

    I hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions!!!!

  6. #42
    Registered User

    Mar 2004
    1,547

    hmm interesting topic...

    If you put a 3yo in a bikini for swimming do you think she's going to know any different really??? She's going to think - I"m going swimming - woohoo!



    I do not have a problem letting my boys run around in the nude - I would rather them grow up comfortable in their skin and not self conscious....I think there's more issues with girls growing up with body image issues and self esteem issues than there are girls that grow up to be strippers iykwim???
    My DD loves putting on her bikini at home and wearing it around the house. That is fine, I don't have a problem with that. She is also very comfortable in her own skin and will get around in the nude sometimes. Again, not an issue. But I will not dress her in a bikini at the local pool or the beach and I will not allow her to run around naked at the pool or beach either. Just as I will not allow DS to run around naked in public either. I am certainly not worried about them growing up to be a stripper, that is not the issue. The main reason for this is sun safety - a rash shirt over swimmers provides much more protection from the sun than a little bikini or a pair of speedos on DS. But it is also a question of what is appropriate for children to wear. DD isn't old enough to know or decide what is appropriate and what is not. I could dress her in a suspender and high heels to go out and it wouldn't bother her in the slightest - of course she doesn't know that it has sexual overtones, she is too young to understand adult concepts such as that. But I know, and DH knows and all the other older people who she comes into contact know - and that is the point. It is not appropriate to dress a child that way - it doesn't matter what the child thinks, they are not old enough or emotionally mature enough to process it. Which is why it is our job as parents to make the decisions in this area, especially when they are so young and not able to make the right decisions for themselves.

    You are right - with girls there is the big issue of body issues and self esteem issues. It has been 10 years since I stopped being a teenager, but I still remember all too well the struggle I faced with my own confidence and body issues and issues over the way I looked, acted, what I wore...and TBH back then the images we were bombarded with in the media, music videos etc were not half as bad as they are now. I do worry about all this with my own daughters. I am going to have 3 of them to guide through teenager-hood, and the trouble is it all seems to start so much earlier these days. I was shocked the other day when I read an article in which 'Dolly' and 'Girlfriend' magazines were referred to as "tween mags" - as in, they are aimed at the 8-13 yo age group! When I was young, those mags were strictly for teens - aged 13-16. My mum would not let me read them until I had turned 13, and she finally relented because I begged. I could not imagine letting my pre-teen girl read those things! But apparently now by the time girls are 13 they are moving on to Cosmo or Cleo It just seems like too much, too young. Which is why I want to 'protect' my kids from being exposed to all that stuff too early. Why can't we just let kids be kids?

  7. #43
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber

    Nov 2004
    Bonnie Doon
    4,566

    Hi!

    Bon - I completely agree with you - I wouldn't let me boys run around naked on the beach or anything like that either...

    I guess what I'm saying is it's the values of the family and that you raise your children to have self respect and high self esteem that will make the difference.
    I read all of those magazines very young and even sometimes I was surprised what was in them in regards to sex...BUT I kind of new that some of it wasn't appropriate to me...???

    I don't know if I'm making much sense - I'm not saying we let our kids wear anything/watch anything/read anything at any age but just that you want to know that if exposed to those things outside of your control that they will make the right decisions etc...?
    I remember dolly/girlfriend being available in our high school library so just because it's not allowed at home doesn't mean they won't read it??
    Doesn't mean that if they go to a friends house they won't be exposed to something they wouldn't normally??

    I guess I think sheltering them from everything that is so commonplace out in the world may not be the right choice either...???

    (Then again...maybe ask me this again in a few years time or if I have girls - LOL!)

  8. #44
    Registered User

    Jul 2005
    Rural NSW
    6,975

    Swimwear: I saw some great one piece girls swimmers at Rebel Sports on the weekend.

  9. #45
    Registered User

    Mar 2004
    1,547

    I agree that they will be exposed to things like magazines at friends houses and things like that, I remember I used to read them when I was at the library or a friend's house lol! I think there is a middle ground between sheltering them and fully exposing them IYKWIM? For example, my DD is at the age where she likes to watch me get ready to go out, and she likes to try on my perfume and wants to try on my makeup (what little of it I own), and that is fine. But at the same time, I don't let her wear makeup outside the house and I am trying to show her by my own example that makeup can be fun to wear, but we don't 'need' to wear it to feel good about ourselves. It is just another part of grooming, like brushing hair and cleaning teeth, but mummy can just as easily go out with out anything on her face (which is more usual lol, I simply don't have the time!). And I try not to emphasise looks - yes, we all like to be told we are beautiful because it makes us feel good, but it is simply part of a complete package of a person, not the only thing that is important.

  10. #46
    Registered User

    Dec 2005
    In Bankworld with Barbara
    14,222

    I was shocked the other day when I read an article in which 'Dolly' and 'Girlfriend' magazines were referred to as "tween mags" - as in, they are aimed at the 8-13 yo age group! When I was young, those mags were strictly for teens - aged 13-16. My mum would not let me read them until I had turned 13, and she finally relented because I begged. I could not imagine letting my pre-teen girl read those things! But apparently now by the time girls are 13 they are moving on to Cosmo or Cleo It just seems like too much, too young. Which is why I want to 'protect' my kids from being exposed to all that stuff too early. Why can't we just let kids be kids?
    Oh wow! I can't believe that! Mum brought me my first Dolly mag when I was 10 - mind you that was waaaay back in 1988 and back then the mag was nothing like it is today so you could go so far as to say it included tweens because it didn't talk about the same things, sure there was a few articles about sex, but it was never done in a 'how to' sort of way, it was along the lines of waiting and how not to feel pressured and if you do make sure it's safe and 'special'. Mind you though, Dad used to remove the Dolly Doctor and Dear Dolly pages as he thought that was too grown up for me, but I kept buying that mag till I was 18 because Cosmo and Cleo were far too old before then, and even then I bypassed them to read Marie Clare and Women's Forum I see the type of articles the advertise on the front cover and no way known would I have assumed that they market that towards the tween group these days. Maybe it's something that we should write to the editor about, that as parents of young girls nearing the 'tween' age group that we wouldn't buy them as they are too old and encourage the sexualising of children.

  11. #47
    BellyBelly Member

    Mar 2005
    Limestone Coast, SA
    2,671

    I hate that girls and boys are so seperated by clothes and toys. I have put a huge effort into buying DS both 'girls' and ;boys' toys, and he plays with them all equaly. He has cars and trucks, he has baby dolls, dolls house, high heel dress up shoes (which btw, he demanded we buy at the store, then demanded i let him put them on an walk through Centro....that really challenged my 'gender neutral' parenting LOL!) even my Nan bought him a baby doll as his present cause thats what he picked out. However, I have copped a lot of criticism from family for buying him girls toys. Many a time my sisters and told him he is gay. DS was flipping through a mag the other day and pointed to a footballer and said "he's a cute man". This one little innocent comment copped extreme laughter and gay jeers. It is amazing how closed minded people are even today. Very sad.

  12. #48
    Registered User

    Mar 2004
    1,547

    That is terrible - why is it gay for boys to play with girls toys? And to laugh at him and make insinuations like that, it's just wrong. When my DS was about 3 he loved dressing up in this pair of red high heels that was in the dress up box at grandma's house, I thought it was adorable lol. DH was a bit less enthusiastic, but he knew that it was just innocent play - why make a big deal out of it? It will only turn it into an issue for the child, when as far as they are concerned they are just playing.

  13. #49
    Lucy in the sky with diamonds.

    Jan 2005
    Funky Town, Vic
    7,070

    Oh get THIS!

    DD goes to Ballet class (at 3 it's more diddling around the room like a fish etc), and all the kids must wear proper shoes.

    One mum was told she must buy the shoes for her son - she snorts and says "they are a bit ****Y aren't they"? Ummmm hello, its a BALLET class
    And the boys shoes are black anyway....

    At least the rest of the room fell silent in shock.

    ETA - the word is Po o f y

  14. #50
    Registered User

    Mar 2004
    1,547

    Why put your son in ballet class if you have a problem with the shoes? It's like enrolling your daughter in a footy team and then saying she is too delicate to wear the boots.

    Actually, on the topic of sport - I said to my DH the other day after he had played footy in the backyard with the kids that I had realised for the first time that even if DD wanted to, and did really well in a sport like AFL, she would never be able to make a living out of it like DS could, because she is a girl. Probably off topic but it made me feel sad that there are such distinct gender divisions in sport when it comes to money and sponsorship and publicity and it's only now that I have girls that I have actually thought about it and realised how unfair it is.

  15. #51

    Mar 2004
    Sparta
    12,662

    A related article

    We Haven't Come a Long Way, Baby

    By Melinda Tankard Reist

    The pressure on young girls to conform to p*rnographic ideals of female beauty and behaviour has never been stronger, writes Melinda Tankard Reist

    In 2009, former Hi-5 children's entertainer Kellie Crawford posed for a lingerie photo shoot for men's magazine Ralph. The Ralph cover for April features Kellie in tiny knickers and black bra, and shouts "It's Hi-5 Hottie Kellie!" with the subtitle "Busting out some bedtime stories". It includes another smaller picture of Kellie in her Hi5 costume. In the accompanying interview, Kellie explained that as a children's star, she "just forgot I was a woman". She did the photo shoot to "find the woman in me".

    I responded in media interviews by asking why it was that the Wiggles were not expected to prove their manhood by stripping down to their jocks and having their photos taken for a magazine shoot, yet women were expected to take off most of their clothes to prove their womanhood? Opponents of my position, both men and women, filled my inbox with intellectually challenging arguments. These included:

    That I was sad, old and dog-ugly
    That I had saggy breasts and a droopy arse
    That I needed liposuction
    That I was a bitter ugly woman
    That my face would break a 60-inch plasma television

    And, my personal favourite, that I was "as ugly as a hat full of arses" (obviously not a hat full of Kellie's arses, because hers was magnificent, according to her fans).

    However, one little girl in Victoria who seemed not to care about whether I was bitter or needed cosmetic surgery, wrote me an email earlier this year which I now quote with her permission:

    "My name is Delaney and I am 10 years old. On Today Tonight I saw a story about Kellie from Hi-5. Of course, you know that she has done a photo shoot for a men's magazine. I think it is very silly how she feels she has to do it. It sets a horrible example for younger kids like me. When I was little I used to love watching Hi-5 and it makes me feel dissappointed [sic] that she has done something like that."

    Delaney, and girls like her, receive messages from every level of the media and popular culture that the baring of the female body is what makes you a "real woman". Very few young girls have Delaney's courage to distance themselves from this message. Ideal womanhood is now all about sexual allure; the ability to attract the male gaze has become what is important in life. As Pamela Paul writes in Pornified, "being publicly sexual has become the only acceptable way for girls to demonstrate maturity".

    The pressure to conform to an idealised body type in a sex-saturated culture that values girls who are thin, hot, sexy and "bad" is taking a terrible toll. Despite the many opportunities at school, university and in the workplace available to them, girls today are struggling. Courtney E Martin describes it as "the frightening new normalcy of hating your body". Self-hatred is so prevalent, it's like a rite of passage for teenage girls.

    In the past it was often adult women who understood that their bodies were being pulled apart bit by bit and analysed for imperfections and flaws. Women understood the imperative to be sexy, a message shored up by advertising propaganda. Now this understanding has come to younger girls, who learn to see that they too are always at risk of failing.

    Martin has noted that many girls say they would rather be hit by a truck than be fat. I know of a fit and healthy five-year-old who won't go swimming because, she says, people would laugh at her and say she's too fat. Eight year-old girls are admitted to hospital with eating disorders. Schoolgirls develop ranking systems on the basis of "hotness", resulting in guaranteed misery for the girl with the lowest ranking.

    Girls internalise the body critiquing messages of shows like Extreme Makeover and America's Next Top Model and its Australian version. The program Ten Years Younger in Ten Days puts couples in glass boxes at Sydney's Circular Quay so that 100 passers-by can tell us what they think of their looks. "She looks like she just gave up", commented one viewer before the transformation begins, and the women have their faces pumped full of botox and fillers until they look like chipmunks with cheeks so plump they can hardly talk, their feet stuffed into heels so high they can barely walk.

    English girl Sasha Bennington absorbed today's messages about what constitutes female beauty early:

    "Sasha ... has a spray tan once a week and a new set of acrylic nails once a month. Her hair is bleached white-blonde and regularly boosted with a set of extensions. She plucks her eyebrows and carefully applies makeup every morning. Her favourite outfit is a white satin boob-tube dress and Stetson hat.

    "But Sasha isn't a Vegas showgirl — she goes to primary school and only turned 11 last week.

    "While most children her age have been desperately waiting for the arrival of the new Harry Potter, little Sasha has been hanging on for her heroine Jordan's latest book. She says, 'I'm obsessed with her.'"

    Sasha's bedroom, the UK Sun article tells us, is "a pink shrine to Playboy, with a Playboy door curtain, satin duvet set, Playboy pillows and pyjamas". For Sasha, the thought of not being pretty is just too awful to contemplate: "My mum would just call me ugly. Everyone would call me ugly. I wouldn't like that at all."

    Playboy make-up, including "Tie me to the bedpost blush" and "Hef's favorite lip gloss" (in colours Centerfold Red, Sex Kitten and Playmate Pink) is marketed to girls, along with Playboy doona covers and pencil cases. Girls are wearing the brand of the global sex industry directed by a sleazy 80-year-old man in silk pyjamas and they think it's about cute rabbits. When Hugh Hefner was asked by the Washington Post about a growing trend among young girls to wear Playboy-logo clothing and accessories, he replied, "I don't care if a baby holds up a Playboy bunny rattle".

    The sexualisation of girls has seen a rise in beauty rituals and a desire for cosmetic surgery at ever younger ages. Disordered eating is on the rise. A 2006 National Youth Cultures of Eating Study found that close to 20 per cent of adolescent Australian girls use fasting for two or more days to lose weight. Another 13 per cent use vomiting. Others rely on slimming pills, chewing but not swallowing food, smoking, and laxative abuse, as found in this study. According to AAP, one in four 12-year-old girls in Australia would like to have cosmetic surgery. A Brisbane Sunday Mail investigation in 2008 reported a 20 per cent increase in inquiries from teenage girls for plastic surgery.

    A Queensland surgeon was quoted in the Sunday Mail report as saying that between 5-10 per cent of young women want to look like the former Big Brother contestant Krystal Forscutt. Cosmetic surgery practitioners are cashing in on the body angst of girls and women, with growing numbers of teenage girls having breast implants.

    The makers of a UK Channel 4 documentary The Sex Education Show v Pornography, which screened in March 2009, showed photographs of 10 pairs of breasts to a group of boys from Sheringham High School in Norfolk. According to a Guardian article:

    "All say the most attractive are the ones that have been surgically enhanced. Alarmingly, a posse of their female classmates says the same thing. Both sexes are unimpressed with normal breasts, which — unlike porn stars' silicone-boosted chests — are often not symmetrical and sit down, not up."

    Almost half the girls at Sheringham High School were unhappy with their breasts. Even small children get the message that the real thing just isn't good enough. My Beautiful Mommy, a 2008 book by a Florida plastic surgeon, Michael Salzhauer, is written to explain mummy's new makeover. The book's front cover shows mummy in body hugging pants and snug top, enhancing her pert new breasts. Surrounding her is pink stardust, as though she's been touched by a fairy. What girl doesn't find sparkly stardust appealing? Maybe the magic cosmetic surgeon will visit them too one day? A more fitting title would be, "If mommy's not good enough maybe I'm not either?"

    We see in these examples a phenomenon identified by M. Gigi Durham as the Lolita Effect, that is, "the distorted and delusional set of myths about girls' sexuality that circulates widely in our culture and throughout the world". Girls are encouraged "to flirt with a decidedly grown-up eroticism and sexuality".

    One mother described the impact of these myths on her 13-year-old daughter, in a poignant letter to The Age:

    "I am the mother of a 13-year-old girl. She is not overly developed, she does not wear makeup, she is aware of her burgeoning sexuality, but a little daunted by it and curious of it. Whenever I go out with her — be it to a shopping centre, a walk down the road or picking her up from school — she is gawked at, wolf-whistled and stared at by men usually aged in their 20s and 30s. It doesn't matter that she is standing with her mother.
    They do not hesitate for a second. They wave and gesticulate while she's sitting in the car next to me. Her girlfriends also suffer this indignity.

    "I believe this is the result of the sexualisation of children that some men think it's fine to lust after them — and not just fine, but acceptable. It doesn't matter if they see revulsion, fear or confusion because they're looking at these girls' faces. The girls are totally objectified ... I don't think it even enters these men's heads that it is not only offensive, but frightening to attract naked lust when you are only 13".

    This is an edited extract from Getting Real: Challenging the Sexualisation of Girls, edited by Melinda Tankard Reist (Spinifex Press: 2009).
    We Haven't Come a Long Way, Baby | newmatilda.com

  16. #52
    Administrator
    Add Rouge on Facebook

    Jun 2003
    Ubiquity
    9,922

    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

  17. #53
    rhyb Guest

    Scary.
    Im gonna go massively off topic cz Ive been wondering.
    For me Im still a teenager facing the same self esteem issues as anyone my age (19) but with a body that doesnt fit the age group. Yes things are sagging, stretch marks are everywhere and I have a hard time loving what I have. Harder still Ill have to guide my three girls through this early sexualisation knowing that I have a hard time coping with this myself let alone being an appropriate role model. What do we do when we as a parent dont feel we can be the positive role model our kids desperately need?

  18. #54
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Inner South East suburbs Melbourne
    1,213

    That is such a good op ed piece.

    (And M.Tankard Reist is drop dead gorgeous, just as a by the by.)

12345