I wrote a massive reply and then accidentally closed the window rather than pressed reply

MM, I struggled with the issue of not knowing whether NPD's understood what they were doing and whether it was right for us to go non contact with MIL if she didn't understand. I think it is a bit like a psychopath who becomes a serial murderer though - just because there is a mental illness doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. I think they do understand right from wrong and that having a disorder is not an excuse to do whatever they like. I found this link particularly useful - What Makes Narcissists Tick: Hurting You Isn't Something Narcissists Do by Accident

Also if you are starting to feel a bit guilty about things, this link is also good - Feeling Guilt - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers

My MIL also claims to have no idea what she has done to us. We wrote it all out for her in email after email. Once we went no contact, we started emailing for a bit to see if we could work it out - that was before we knew about the NPD. She emailed back and the emails are really interesting to look at now that we understand NPD. At the time, they were infuriating and no-one else could see why we were so angry about the things she wrote, but I can see NPD behaviour riddled throughout her emails now and it all makes sense to me. I don't feel angry anymore when I look back at her emails because I understand what was going on and I can see what she was trying to do. But she still tells anyone who will listen that she has no idea why she can't see her son and her grandchildren.

We asked them in one of our emails what they expected from a relationship with us and her response was 'to be able to love you unconditionally?' but then went on to list that seeing us at Christmas and on birthdays, to be allowed to give us presents, to receive gifts from us, to be able to show that they loved us however they liked were all part of their 'unconditional love'. They couldn't see, though goodness knows we tried to explain, that those things are all conditions. And we knew from the past, that as soon as we gave them those seemingly little things (I say seemingly because there was nothing little about accepting those things from them ... they made it out like they were opportunities for them to give to us but it was really just opportunities for us to celebrate MIL and all her wonderfulness ) that there would be more and more and more to follow.

By the time we worked out MIL had NPD, we come to the conclusion by ourselves that they held us and DH's siblings responsible for their happiness. They were never going to be happy because they depended too much on us to do it for them and whenever we fulfilled anything they asked us to do, there was always more that they expected from us. It was never ending.

Starfish - My Dad is similar in some ways to yours. His thing was apologising. He would do awful things to me as a kid/teenager. He would provoke me until I snapped and he got a reaction and then he would punish me. It would turn into a massive argument which usually ended in my sitting in my crying for ages. When he was ready, he would come into my room like some kind of superhero and offer something that resembled an apology except it was more along the lines of 'I'm ready to forgive you now'. If I ever told him to go away because I wasn't ready to talk, he would fly into an absolute rage and tell me he would never forgive me and never forget and then come up with new and even crueller ways to punish me. I was completely at his mercy because I was so dependent on my parents for everything. I had been conditioned from a young age that I needed them. Even as a child I was told that if I ever ran away from home if they caught me they would drag me back home and beat me black and blue to teach me to never run away again. It's only been very recently that I realised how incredibly abusive that was and if you liken it to an abusive relationship between a man and a woman, it would be obvious. Because it was parent to child, the same rules don't seem to apply, though I think they should.

My dad also has body issues but he is on the opposite end of the spectrum. He is morbidly obese. We are not allowed to mention his weight at all. He seriously thinks that he could be a model. But if we even so much as say the word 'fat' around him, he loses it. Even if we aren't saying it in relation to him. I once said about something on TV "That's a big fat lie" and got grounded for a week and he didn't speak to me at all.

Many of our arguments happened around him saying really cruel and awful things to me "You are not a nice person. You are only nice when you want something." or "I have never met anyone as selfish as you in all my life", "I hope when you have children, they are as horrible to you as you are to me and then you will know how I feel". If I ever tried to argue and say that I wasn't those things, he would tell me that he is the adult so he gets the last word in an argument and I need to walk away quietly and then he would say whatever it was again so I could walk away quietly. I would and then he would wait a couple of minutes and obviously because I never rose to the occassion, he would come and find me and would push me until I argued back with him and eventually he would ground me for some ridiculous amount of time. He bullied me for years and it has done terrible things to my self esteem. I can still see so many of my thought patterns are influenced like that and I have to make such a conscious decision to not keep believing some of the things I learned through those experiences.

SAHD - My dad is completely intimidated by my DH like your MIL is by you. It's great but I still have lots of issues when DH isn't around. My dad also tries the same things that he did to me on my kids but he has no authority over them and they know it so he gives up. Kids are so smart - they know and they just roll their eyes and walk away.

Sparklez - I think everyone shows some N behaviours at one point or another. It's human nature to be a little bit egotistic. I think the difference is that N really don't care about anyone but themselves. They only show love and affection when they are going to get something out of it. You may show more N tendencies than normal if that is the example you were set as a child, but I think that the lack of empathy and focus on self as the motivation for everything you ever do would be the things that set a person with NPD apart from just a normal person with N tendencies. Does that make sense? I show lots of N tendencies too but I don't believe that I have NPD. My DH also shows them as well but I don't think he has NPD either. They are learned behaviours that once we realise we do we try and change and we do change over time. A person with NPD doesn't ever really change. The same issues they have now with relating to other people will still be the same 5 years from now and they were they same 5 years ago.