Controversial thread : Sex after baby

[Fleur]

Coming back to this thread after so many replies, I can't address all those I want to individually.

I never took the OP, or the point of this thread, to be about women who have reasons - I was going to say, valid reasons, but really any reasons - for not wanting sex beyond the 'I can't be bothered'.

Freya, I'm really sorry that you feel this way, I know there have been some posts that might have been more senistive - but most of us I think get the difference between certain situations, and reasons for differing sex drives. What you are saying doesn't make you selfish, or unappreciative or anything else - hell, I'm one of those 'can't be bothered' women and I'm not going to label myself selfish or unappreciative!

I got 'orders' last night - be in bed on time or else (all a bit tongue in cheek of course) - it had been too long, and it was really only that I have been working late at home, doing crafty bits & pieces, generally going to bed too late. Not that I was avoiding sex, but I certainly wasn't putting in the effort to get to bed on time.
That is what I took the OP to be, that sometimes if there's no real reason other than it's a bit of an effort, then it might be worth making the effort. That's all.

I agree with BG, I find our intimacy in other areas definitely increases when we are having (or have recently had) sex; DH in particular seems to be more affectionate. I don't know why, I think maybe it switches on for him, it's all connected. I know one of the reasons he 'needs' regular (or semi-regular) sex is that for him it is all about intimacy, it's how he gets his needs for love & affection met.

Orgasm; I don't know... maybe it would make a difference but I don't think so. I think it's more about how your mind works. DH rarely lets me go without O'ing, so I can be pretty certain it's going to happen for me but it doesn't do much to increase my libido. I think - for me anyway - libido is about head space, I need to be relaxed & most importantly, switched off from everythign else to get in the mood. He seems to be able to switch on like a light. I wish I could!

As for the comments about infidelity - I'm not even going there, suffice to say, I hope that anyone who has been there doesn't read that & feel like it's 'your fault'.

And Rory, rofl at the mad rabbit on heat, that gave me a visual that made me laugh

[HotI]

again Freya, I didn't mean for this to be an attack on women who don't want to have sex due to extremely understandable and valid reasons. no-one should have sex or feel they have to put out to keep their man "satisfied".

i think that is the issue- who gets to decide what is an understandable and valid reason? I believe it is the woman.

[Fleur]

i think that is the issue- who gets to decide what is an understandable and valid reason? I believe it is the woman.

I agree - it's one of those things that no-one can know unless you have been her ... there is so much tied up in such an intimate thing it is impossible to fully know how someone is feeling unless you are them.
And a lot of times, I would guess that a woman herself might not fully understand why it is that way. I went through a period a few years ago where rather than just being lazy about sex, I was actively avoiding it, and it took a long time to even start to work out why & to resolve it.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Would be more helpful to remain emotionally mature, I reckon. The majority of posts in here have been considered, heartfelt and empathic. Let's keep it that way (BB-wide!).
I think, in summary, I am questioning the "can't be bothered" assumption here, and saying that even if someone says they can't be bothered to make the effort, I would suggest there are other things going on to create that scenario; that if she "can't be bothered", there is probably some kind of support she's lacking and needing. Because, given the right level of support, most women I know WOULD be up for some sexiness, if other factors weren't taking away from the energy that would otherwise go into feeling sensual and sexual again.
I just don't think it's as simple as "can't be bothered", unless the woman has a pathology of emotional abuse (and even then, it's not just CBB, it's about feeling a need for power and control for another whole host of possible reasons!) towards her fella. It's a throwaway line that should serve as the canary in the relationship!

[Cherished]

Now I KNOW there can be issues which are physically related to birth which can make it painful or impossible, and sometimes women find themselves trapped with men who are utter pigs who don't deserve them or their lovely children, and sometimes relationship troubles that were there pre-baby can be magnified, and sometimes sex is out-of-bounds during pregnancy, and sometimes we feel fat or unattractive and yes we are all tired after we have a baby.

But really girls, it was sex that got us here in the first place. And so many times I hear of women saying it has been no sex since week 20 of pregnancy and baby is now 4 moths old, or that their baby is 6 months and there has still been no action, or that it has been a year since they have had sex with their partner.

This is a real relationship risk. If you love your man, have sex with him for the sake of your relationship AND your child's long-term well being. Your kids will thank you for it in the long run (even though the very concept of parents having sex will gross them out).

RoryRory your original post pretty clearly says that you know many of the reasons why woman arent' having sex including being with a pig of a man, physical and emotional issues and then you STILL go onto say "but really girls... etc" which to me reads that we should be putting out REGARDLESS of what is going on and then you still go on to say that if we LOVE our man to have sex for the sake of the relationship AND our childs long-term well being!!!! Are you seriously wondering why so many BB members are hurt or seriously offended by this thread?

I didn't mean for this to be an attack on women who don't want to have sex due to extremely understandable and valid reasons. no-one should have sex or feel they have to put out to keep their man "satisfied".

That is exactly what your original thread was saying! Put out for your man! And I don't see how you can now be calling for the thread to be closed when you started such a controvertial thread knowing that you'd be hiding under your chair

[Smoke Jaguar]

Luv ya, Rors (you know that!), and I tend to agree with Cherished.
The perspective espoused here by those who think 'we' need to get over ourselves and re-learn the birds and the bees (the "how did your kids get here" thingy) is one that can only come from someone who has the support and nurturing at home that others don't have. It's just too easy to say "come on, girls, just put out and get out of your bad habit" when you haven't had the reasons to 'develop the habit'. That's what those of us saying "back off" mean.
If we can't talk freely about why we don't have sex, then how do we realise what the issue are? If we're just shoved back into our rooms and told it's because we've become lazy, how does that help anything?
No-one's telling the satisfied partners to pipe down. In fact, it's helpful to know that mothers CAN have satisfying sex lives, and to know why and how so that others can re-evaluate their relationships and challenging their expected work loads with their partners.
Just please don't tell others their problem is that they don't just 'suck it up'. That's disempowering and really betrays the 'sisterhood'

[Rainbow_Mumma]

I will admit I have only just found this read and have only read 8 out of 10 pages and whilst i can see everyones viewpoints I obviously cannot agree with it all.
So what I can add to this is my opinions and they are only opinions, it is what works for my relationship and it may not work for others.

For me and DH sex is NOT important, sex does not make or break a relationship in our opinions. Yes DH enjoys sex a lot more than me and there have been times where I've said yes when not really wanted it.
Now we don't have sex very much mainly due to the pregnancy as every position that is physically possible at this stage is unbearable due to pain and discomfort so DH would rather go without that have to have sex with me in tears due to pain.
There are a lot of factors that have led to my very low sex drive, depression, sleep deprivation the list goes on.

What really gets me about people who think (now im not saying anyone here has directly said it, Im just getting my viewpoints on this topic out there) that a woman/man must satisfy there man/woman in order to have a healthy relationship is some people don't understand mental scarring. For example a traumatic birth can have a HUGE impact on sex life after baby, I know of a woman who after 2 years was still violently ill (i mean vomitting and hypoventalation) when she thought of sex and the possibility of getting pregnant and having to labour again but her husband stood by her and was very supportive but boy did his porn collection grow
For me and DH we have both been sexually abused although i was in my mid teens, DH was a child and so for us it is very, very important that both of us are FULLY up for it before engaging in sexual activity.

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti sex or anti the OP when we are both up for it the sex is great but we as a couple have never had an arguement because we haven't had sex in a while in fact it has never come close to being an issue.
Anyway I will have to jump back in on this later

[Arcadia]

I dont think rory was saying put out regardless in her op, but rather, if all these issues are aside and we just look at just sex, could we change the dynamic? I think it's been a really valid and eye opening discussion, with extremes at either spectrum. I have certainly learnt a lot and reflected a lot too. Thank you everyone!

[MantaRay]

Moderator Message »
Please ensure your replies are respectful to other posters. This is a topic that is very emotive for many members. The report function is there for any posts that you find upsetting or offensive. Some posts have been removed from this thread and any further posts that are not constructive will also be removed.

[Roryrory]

Thanks Arcadia and Fleur

Cherished you're right in that the "but really girls" shouldn't be there. Rather, I should have written:

Now I KNOW there can be issues which are physically related to birth which can make it painful or impossible, and sometimes women find themselves trapped with men who are utter pigs who don't deserve them or their lovely children, and sometimes relationship troubles that were there pre-baby can be magnified, and sometimes sex is out-of-bounds during pregnancy, and sometimes we feel fat or unattractive and yes we are all tired after we have a baby.
Now, for the rest of us, it was sex that got us here in the first place....

And I do stand by my comment that having sex with your husband/wife/partner can be important for your child's well being. If parents are together and "happy" (whatever their particular definition of happy may be) it is statistically in the child's best interests for the parents to stay together (by statistically I mean by all sorts of measures : financially, emotionally, socially, etc). Now generally (dare I even say in most cases) a healthy sex life is a critical part of any adult relationship. One of the best things you can do for your child is to maintain a healthy relationship with their other parent(s). So if one parent is neglecting a critical part of their relationship because they are in a crappy mindset, then that's a problem!

Maya I think you are spot on that women who do feel they have been attacked by this thread should feel free to talk about the other side of the coin. This thread was clearly not aimed at them (as Epacris helped me articulate better on the thread's first page - I admit I didn't consider all pertinent issues in my OP) but I do think they have every right to comment and share, without being howled down, and again I do apologise for any hurt of offence caused. I do hope no one felt I was telling women with valid relationship issues to suck it up.

Mrs S you make a valid point about the different needs a couple may have (hence my comment above "whatever their particular definition of happy may be"). Some couples would be happy with once a month, others once a day. There was actually a couple who made a pact to have sex every day for a year (I think they wrote a book about it? or a blog?) but they had extremely tight rules about how they achieved this feat - I think they banned computer use, TV and newspapers, and both spent more time helping the other with chores around the house. They couldn't do it with the woman just sucking it up and putting out - it was a mutual decision. As should sex be in any healthy relationship. I was just trying to nudge some women into making that decision, and this thread (and my rep points box) is littered with examples of women who did make the decision and actually enjoyed themselves in the process.

And I don't see how you can now be calling for the thread to be closed when you started such a controversial thread knowing that you'd be hiding under your chair

I would call for any thread to be closed when people start attacking individuals personally. I really don't like people walking away from BB threads feeling they have been victimised. There's been far too much of that going on lately

ETA Mantaray thanks

More food for thought from a blog I read :http://lifegems4marriage.com/2011/03...your-marriage/

[PollyA]

I have been thinking of this thread and how the original intent got lost
I thought of reframing it like one of those womens magazine type quizzes. (Not that I read glossy mags...much )

Do you and your partner have as much sex as
-you used to?
-you'd like to?

If not why not?

I don;t think anyone is saying if there is a meaningful answer to that question (and yes the woman herself gets to decide what is meaningful) you'd go any futher.

BUT- if you can't quite think of an answer...or it is something along the lines of ""We go to bed at different times because of the net/tv/veging out" or "We just kind of stopped"or "Maybe he doesn't want to anymore?" or "it takes too long" or "I really don't know"

THEN- maybe its time to invest in some intimacy time (including intimate touch, massage and foreplay) etc.

BECAUSE- studies show etc etc and you might just find its rather fun!

I think its really easy in the throes of bringing up young children to neglect your romantic relationship. I also think its takes women a little longer to "warm up" when they do get intimate with their partner, and we don't tend to do things that take too long after a crazy day of nappy changing, kid wrangling, cleaning, working etc. But many people do find that if they make some effort to keep up their romance the payoff is pretty good.

If this was a magazine article Roryrory may have still got some e-mails from people who didn't like it, sex is still a taboo subject in society, which, in my opinion creates more problems that it prevents, but she could have respectfully replied with the intent (As she has done in this thread) particularly over issues such as word choice and those who got something out of it would be happy.

I think criticising word choice is often unhelpful, if the intent is clear. But if it is necessary and the poster clarifies surely then its time to talk about concepts or bow out of discussion?

I think this was a very rich conversation that many people would not feel comfortable having in real life. I hope that those who were offended can see the intent was not in any way to make people feel bad, I would say it was actually the opposite...to encourage some loving in situations where there could easily be more...

[Glamourcide]

I just want to say that I'm really tiring of people having to put endless disclaimers in every post to avoid potentially offending someone. Gosh, we speak in generalisations - OF COURSE there are exceptions to the 'rule' and you may well be one of them. Gotta love how threads never stay on track or civil any more because everyone's so keen to jump to the conclusion that they're being told off by a stranger who OF COURSE knows nothing about you or your personal life. Gah!

Don't apologise, Rory. Your OP was a very valid one and I think it's launched a great discussion, I'm sure many of us have learned a thing or two or just taken a quiet look at our own situation and thought, 'I might take some of this on board and give it a shot'. Of course others will say, 'I don't agree with that, I'm not going to change what I'm doing' and that's entirely okay, but I'm sick of people being told they either don't know what they're on about, or being made to feel that they need to go back and talk in circles to exclude said 'exceptions' from their post to avoid offending them.

[Doing my best]

I just want to say that I'm really tiring of people having to put endless disclaimers in every post to avoid potentially offending someone. Gosh, we speak in generalisations - OF COURSE there are exceptions to the 'rule' and you may well be one of them. Gotta love how threads never stay on track or civil any more because everyone's so keen to jump to the conclusion that they're being told off by a stranger who OF COURSE knows nothing about you or your personal life. Gah!

It feels like a disclaimer needs to go with every post.. Maybe a blanket one when you join up, along with a blanket "I won't take it as a personal attack unless my name is mentioned", after all one of the rules is that you don't attack anyone, so we should also not assume that we are being attacked.

But back to topic.. I have thought long and hard about this.. And we are both lazy. DH is a shiftworker, on a 24/7roster, so along with everything else in our life, it has to be a little planned. And then a child gets sick, or we have visitors, or AF shows up and suddenly we are 3 weeks and not even considered it. And then we might sneak one in, and then the whole cycle starts again. I am due for the 'when are we going to have sex again?' question.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Oooh, ok, I'm missing some context - removed posts and all, that I have missed!
Now, I know there have been posters who came on to say "Yeah, I just shifted my mind a little and things went great", and this thread has been helpful in that way. I can see how the thread went a little awry, and it's not really to do with disclaimers and offensiveness or even taboos. It's possible it would have been received better by everyone if it had started out along the lines of "Ok, so I realise sex takes a battering after babies are born, and for me, I found that a bit more effort really helped. How about everyone else? Is it a case of you can't be bothered, or is it more? Do you think it would help you if you just shifted your thinking a bit?..." I've been accused of being 'smug' plenty of times here on BB before, and a lot of the responses here have been just that, because they presumed what was happening for someone else, instead of JUST speaking for themselves.
Anecdote is very helpful in all sorts of ways - to reinforce, confirm, to persuade etc. Prescription is not helpful.
I agree with PollyA - it's in the angle of the approach that has got some backs up.
I DO know what you mean by now, Rors The delivery is all I had a problem with and the way some others ran with it.
It's absolutely more than ok to tell about your own experience, and I don't think it's ok to say that someone else needs to do what you did, because we've all got an individual blueprint

[MrsBexie]

I just want to say that I'm really tiring of people having to put endless disclaimers in every post to avoid potentially offending someone. Gosh, we speak in generalisations - OF COURSE there are exceptions to the 'rule' and you may well be one of them. Gotta love how threads never stay on track or civil any more because everyone's so keen to jump to the conclusion that they're being told off by a stranger who OF COURSE knows nothing about you or your personal life. Gah!

great post and so very true!!! Unless names are mentiones then I take it as a generalisation...


This was a great topic to post!

[Smoke Jaguar]

OF COURSE there are exceptions to the 'rule' and you may well be one of them

What 'rule', though? Why do we have to conceptualise ourselves, others and what we do in terms of 'rules' and exceptions thereof? Instead of just a patchwork of experiences, some that may resonate and others that won't? Successful lives can also be lived if you violate 'rules' and don't qualify for someone else's idea of an a qualified 'exception'...*gasp*

[Glamourcide]

I get that Mayaness, and I'm speaking very broadly here, not just about this thread. I'm just getting really sick and tired of people posting their opinion (on ANY given subject), and instead of people taking it for what it is and discussing it like adults, they jump to the conclusion that they must be under attack or criticism purely because Opinion A is different to theirs (or Experience/Anecdote/Evidence A is different to theirs).
It's why I'm not posting a lot lately - I can't be bothered to say something, then in the same post essentially take it back and add endless 'buts' and assuage people who can't see my opinions for what they are - AN OPINION. That is mine. That isn't wrong, just different.
I know you're being facetious but you know what I was getting at with my use of the word 'rule' (and I did use quotation marks to show I was using the term very loosely). What I mean by that is - if you read something you find 'offensive' to your sensibilities, try to realise that we're not talking about you specifically and, tbh, don't really mind much about whether you can relate to our experiences or not - that's your business. I'm just tired of not being able to say, 'The sky is cloudy' without someone saying, 'It is not, is it a fine, sunny day from where I'm standing and I find it insulting that you would suggest otherwise'.

Whenever I say something, here or IRL, I am speaking in generalisations UNLESS I specifically state that I am referring to myself or someone else. Why is anecdote automatically assumed to be an attack on someone who has experienced something different? We're all welcome to put forth differing opinions, that's what makes this place great, but I'm losing patience with this constant need for people to 'feel judged/attacked'... I mean, come on. We're not in high school here - get over yourselves and take these sorts of threads for what they intend to be (a grown-up and mainly light-hearted discussion involving personal experiences and ideas you may or may not agree with), instead of derailing them into the train wrecks of 'I feel judged' or 'You're just ignorant' that they seem to be becoming more and more these days

[alish]

here here glamourcide!