Controversial thread : Sex after baby

[Yeddi]

*Putting target on back...*

I understand that some women don't feel like having sex with their partners after having a baby, but I think you should own that. I can see some very obvious ego-centric views here, where what sex means is weighed and judged by what they think and this is meant to be the measure by which everyone should judge it, including their partners. Sex to some people (generally men) makes them feel loved and appreciated, why is this any less valid than you feeling loved and appreciated by him doing things around the house or helping with the kids? So, you'll only show love and appreciation if he does first. When did showing each other you care become a tit for tat? I would think in a successful relationship BOTH would need to successfully communicate their affection and appreciation in a way the other needs them to, and you can't dictate what methods a person needs to feel that way, even if you think it is silly or in the scheme of things unimportant.

Freya - I think it is a little presumptuous to suggest alish will revise her reply in 6 months time just because YOU would have. She may very well not have decreased sex after baby, particularly when she thinks along the lines she does. I know for me, the amount of sex my DH and I have has increased since having children (which includes a 6yo child with ASD/SPD with all her appointments, a 6 month old who is on the go crawling, and studying full time) but having been in the military myself and having to do things like be awake for 72 hours straight I have a very different definition of exhaustion - I have a sex battery like some people have a desert stomach. Everyone is different!

[misty]

Freya - you took the words out of my mouth.

Alish - I am sincerely interested to hear back from you on this topic after you have children. It doesn't make your opinion any less valid now, but I do wonder just how much this opinion will change later on down the track, if at all.

The sheeer exhaustion I am talking about, I really don't think you have experienced it. There is a reason they use sleep deprivation as a toture technique in the army. Not everyone reaches this stage - but alot of people do, with the introduction of a child or children into their lives. It is an ongoing experience, something that can go on for weeks and months on end. There have been times I have had to pull over while driving, because my eyes won't stay open, no matter how much I force them, but there is very little in the way of sleep for the entire month, because at least one of the kids is awake and needs help / comfort every hour of every day and night. I had been exhausted occaisionally before having kids, but there is NOTHING that could have prepared me for the reality of having a non sleeper, a sickly child, and constant feeder and not enough helpers. I might add that my DH is a FANTASTIC support and will get up to look after the kids at night rather then me, once they are no longer breastfed. Even my DH at times has been too exhausted to have sex. Both of us have fallen asleep mid way at least once.

no one in this thread is taking away the fact that having a baby is hard on a woman physically and mentally and that looking after the child isnt hard work, i just think that SOME women need to think about their partner also, who said anywhere about having sex a day after the baby was born? everyone knows it takes people different amounts of time to heal, i know after my ectopic & losing another one i couldnt have sex for 2 months, and thats not my fault! my dh knew that, that didnt mean he went without though, i did things for him. whats the harm in it?

This was exactly one of my points. And in a strong relationship, if you have an understanding partner, then going for lengths of time without sex is not going to harm a relationship. But in my experience, if it is not a purely physical reason not to have sex, then there is another deeper emotional / mental reason. And it is the underlying reason, not the sex itself why a marriage fails.

I will add for the record, that at this particular point in time the only thing that interrupts and restricts my personal sex life is my morning sickness - but that we are still managing to have a 'reasonable' amount (although I KNOW my DH thinks it's not enough, but hell even when we are DTD every day of the month he has complained because I don't happen to want it when he does). But life happens, sometimes your sex life is great, sometimes it's not - but when its not, it is rarely just about sex, their is always some other reason why it's not happening.

how can you sit there and say your partner gives you no support? if he didnt want a child, he would have participated in getting you pregnant! he works all day to bring you and your child money home so you can all survive, how is that not support? just because he dosent make a fuss over how youre feeling? most men arent programmed that way.

You have no idea about an individuals relationship. I am lucky. MY DH is the MOST supportive man I have ever met. I have FABULOUS support. But I have friends who are military wives, they have no support for 9mths at a time, when their partners have disappeared for their work. And often when their partners are back they are no support because they don't have any experience or even desire in some cases, with how to 'help out'. I have a SIL who's husband is so dissengaged from her life and their childrens lives - they share a bed and have sex, but that is the extent of their time and communication together. She only remains their because she feels trapped, she doesn't know how to leave and it has been this way for so long it is 'normal'.

[mummydreamer]

I have been with my DH for 12.5 yrs, living together for 10yrs, married for 6yrs. In my experience, if your relationship cannot survive for periods of time without sex, it will not survive. All relationships have their sexual peaks and troughs. Of course if it is lacking from your marriage you should try to address the issue (or more likely underlying 'issues'), but if sex it the thing to break a relationship 'in and of itself' then that was a pretty crappy relationship to start with.

that's a really good point. right now i guess you could say we're going through a 'trough' but we're still very much in love and very supportive of each other. yes sex is very important for a relationship i think, but i also think the relationship has to be strong without it as well.

[mummajj]

Alish, if you feel like you're sex life is going to continue the same after you've had a baby, then make sure it happens.

dont let anyone tell you how you're going to react after having a baby, just because thier experiences have been different.

i know this is a "controversial" thread, but why attack someone for having a positive view about sex after baby. you dont need to have sex to stay intimate with your partner. there are other ways to please each other. Understandably,women need to wait a bit longer, but why should men wait to be satisfied when they havent had anything happen to them. or is it a case of "if i'm not getting any,neither are you"...

and as for exhaustion, for me, i havent felt that yet. sure iv been really tired, and iv accepted that im not going to have a solid 8 hr sleep for a while, but thats being a mum, so its ok. ask me in a few yrs, after a few more kids and i might have a different point of view though. lol.

[PollyA]

I just want to throw one more idea into the debate.
I had some very sore bits after my first and worried that I would, in fact, never be able to have enjoyable penetrative sex again. The result,some tears, some honest discussion realising that my DH loved me no matter what and 6 months or so of exploring our intimacy which exponetially improved our sex life. Now is retrospect I am, in most, ways glad for the whole experience which allowed such a wonderful new dimension to exist in our relationship.
I would have had similar feelings on the matter as Alish pre baby which may be one of the reasons we made lemonade with our lemons so to speak.

[fionas]

Just on the comparison between working partner's exhaustion and SAHM exhaustion. I've worked 16 hour office days for months at a time when I've been on projects. NOTHING compares to the exhaustion I felt after having DD2 and having DD1 to care for as well. I also worked part-time after having DD1. It was a well-paid, professional job so no breeze. Compared to being at home looking after DD1, it was like being on holiday. I would never patronise DP if he came home saying he was tired and start on the "OHHHHHH, you think YOU'RE tired," but I also think that a bit of understanding goes both ways.

[Reet]

Just a question...

If u had of asked ur partners before falling pregnant and having any children this question..

Would u be happy to give up sex to have a child??

What do u think they wld have said???

My dh has said to me a few times since falling pg that he hopes our relationship doesnt change once we have a baby. By that he basically means he hopes we continue to have regular sex! So i know if my dh was asked that question, he wld choose our relationship over having children because he really does value it. (when i speak to him later tho i am going to ask him just to make sure! ) He has always said that our relationship shld always come first because to bring up happy kids u need to have a happy home. By that i dont mean leave the baby crying so u can go and have sex tho!
Me on the other hand wld probably answer that question the opposite... i cld quite happily give up sex to have a child. (i know i wld miss it but not as much as a man would)

I really hope we can continue to have an active happy sex life once we have a baby because i wld hate for my dh to ever have a reason to resent having children with me.
Ofcourse once u have a baby that question wld be a lot harder to answer for a man because they love that little child with all their heart and would do anything for them... but thats also the reason why there are so many ppl out there that stay together 'just for the children'.

This is just my opinion tho and by no means the right one... its just how how relationship is.. and hey it works for us.. so thats the main thing!

[Mak]

This is going to sound quite corny but I think that both partners being able to communicate their needs/feelings is really the key to being happy in a relationship. Being disgruntled with your sex life as a couple is a symptom of this. With everything there needs to be give and take but that is so much easier in theory. This can be really hard to maintain when you are exhausted, recovering physically (and often mentally from birth) and are finding your way as a mum (and Dad for that matter). Certainly from my perspective it can be all consuming and it is really easy to assume that everyone is on the same page or even feeling so underappreciated/out of control that you barely even care.

[Taurean]

motherhood isnt a 24/7 job, its a PRIVLEDGE!!!! some people dont get that blessing in their life!

Alish, we all know how privileged we are to have children (we wouldn't be members of such a beautiful parenting forum otherwise) but reality is parenthood is tough, bloody tough. Yes, it's amazing too and so fulfilling and by far the best job in the world but no one, NO ONE can prepare you for the changes it makes to your relationship, the changes you feel and experience as a woman, the emotions you go through together and the sheer exhaustion you often feel, particularly in the first 12 weeks.

i know so many women that knock back their husbands and really, i wouldnt blame them if they strayed.. sex is so important to stay connected to your partner

I think this comment is a bit off and may be why others have responded to your post in particular. It's not helpful, especially to those who come from low-sex relationships. Although your opinion isn't the be all and end all, it's not a nice thing to read.

There are plenty of other ways to stay intimate with your partner besides sex. I feel for those who think sex is the ultimate 'connection' - it's not! And I can say that coming from experience - my DH has low sex drive. It did make things tough when it first became apparent a few years ago but we got through it. We learnt that it's more normal than what the general population think. We also learnt that there are plenty of other ways to 'connect'. We still have sex, we just prefer quality over quantity. I had dated a highly strung guy for a while and the sex was fab and plentiful but there wasn't that real 'connection' I have with my DH. We have a 'connection' that will see us through our lifetime, we don't need a lot of sex. Implying that others will stray because of lack of sex is a big call, that's far from the case in many relationships.

JustMe - love your work, as always. A beautifully written post

This thread has been interesting. It's great to share ideas and it's been nice to see so many get a positive boost from it.

[briggsy's girl]

i think this topic is always going to be controversial and there will always be people at polar ends of the opinion spectrum - which is fine. i get the feeling the OP was simply suggesting that not having a physically intimate relationship just because it seems too hard at any given time could be akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face. if you say no, not tonight, out of habit, it can become very much a habit that is hard to break. no one is telling anyone that they should take one for the team - more a suggestion to think about WHY you are saying no. is there an underlying reason within your relationship that is causing you to not want that level of contact??

there have been numerous "i don't feel supported" type comments - and, without saying this is the case in any of the relationships mentioned, i wonder if some of the lack of support is because both parties are struggling. One person feeling unsupported as SAHP and their needs are not being met (in terms of dishes or whatever other assistance they need), the other not feeling met on a physical or emotional intimacy level. it then becomes a viscious cycle of "if s/he can't do this for me, i can't do that for them". i know i've said it jokingly to my DH - if you do this, i'll do that for you. but it's not always a joke - it can be a serious thing, and the cycle can lead to a point where it's a habit just too hard to break.

as previously mentioned, i am the one with the higher libido in our relationship. significantly higher. I am the working parent, i come home, and no, my partner doesn't do all that would probably be expected of a SAHP, so on my days off, i am playing catch up. I have a daughter who still feeds from me morning and night (at least), as well as at least once over night. If i am home, she will also ask to be fed before her day sleep, and almost every night she asks to be fed at least once between me getting home from work, and dinner. This week, she has woken so many times that you can essentially say my sleep has been solid from 11 to 12.30, and then very broken the rest of the night. Anyway - as you can imagine, i am exhausted. to the point that, today, i am home, have given up the opportunity to have a massage to treat a back injury, and am sitting in my PJ's because i don't even have the energy to get dressed. But I have made more of an effort this week than many weeks previously, to reconnect physically with my DH. I KNOW I'm tired. HE knows I'm tired. He respects that. But i don't want to let "life" take over and for us to lose the emotional connection that comes from the physical act. it lays us both bare and exposes the vulnerabilities and allows us to cuddle afterwards and just talk - we can talk about our day, and about our wants and needs of each other. yes, we talk other times, but it's hard to really communicate when we have a toddler running around kwim?? It's not a case of me putting out and expecting X in return from him. it's not a case of him doing X so that i will put out. it's purely about US, and OUR relationship.

I will be one to step up and say that i think it's a bit harsh calling on Ailish and essentially telling her to come back when she has a six month old to see how she feels. it's seems rude and condescending to imply that she is essentially clueless because she doesn't have children yet. She has ideals - the same ideals I had. it got to a point when we were TTC that sex was just for the sperm deposit - and it can be just as damaging to a relationship as anything else. it was sex for sperm. it wasn't intimacy. so i get where she is coming from. funny thing is, i shared Ailish' ideals - that having a baby wouldn't change our sexual relationship. It did - but it was for the better. Sex now is for us. not for a sperm deposit. we're not doing it because we feel we have to, we're doing it because we want to. Last night, things started, and i was totally exhausted so i simply said "sorry babe, i can't tonight". He kissed me, held me, and we fell asleep together. there was no huffing or grumping because he knew it was genuine exhaustion and he accepted it.

our relationship is different now to pre-DD - there is no doubt - but we have made a conscious effort to deal with the changes and to put our energy into making our relationship priority. our house may not be perfectly organised all the time. there may be folding to be done or a load of washing that we need to catch up on - but that isn't as important to US as maintaining our relationship.

[alish]

misty - you cannot sit there and tell me i have not been exhausted, you do not know what situations ive been in or how sick i was.

i didnt come into this thread to be attacked, mearly to share my opinions, i dont care if you didnt like my opinion, but everyone else is allowed to express theirs and i will too!

as for the other ladies, THANKYOU for your support!

out!

[Amaunet]

I think people on both sides are making good points and at different times during the last 20 months i would have felt more in tune with different opinions. However, I think its unfair that someone who hasn't had a child feels entitled to tell someone who has how they should behave/feel in their relationship post baby. The thread title is Sex after baby, therefore, having had a baby I feel entitled to make comment. If the thread were sex after c/s or sex when co-sleeping etc I wouldn't feel able to comment because I haven't had those experiences.

As for the awful (IMO) statement that a partner is "entitled" to go elsewhere if they aren't getting enough sex...I'm glad I have a husband with a higher moral code than that.

For the record, in the 12 months post birth my husband and I had sex 3 times, we communicated and got through it with love and understanding not pressure and emotional blackmail or him making me feel like I wasn't doing my wifely duty. I love him even more for his understanding how I was feeling.

[Smoke Jaguar]

A relationship is a relationship, and sex is only part of that, it is not what makes a relationship. There's a lot of other stuff that goes on in a relationship.

my husband would never cheat either, but ive seen what a sexless marriage is like with my friends and family. and i know whats happened.

No, you don't. You never will. There is ALWAYS more than what is reported, a dynamic that is going on separate from what others see. Lots of people close to DP and I didn't know we were in trouble two years ago. They would not have known that I was wanting him to leave. And ya know what? We were having sex. It wasn't saving us, let me tell ya that much! So, please don't define your own relationship by what you believe was missing from someone else's failed one.
Now, really, good for you (in the nice way!) if you have a very considerate partner who will accept a 'can we just snuggle tonight' and not get into a huff. That's great. It's great if you have lots of sex, and great that you don't know what the others of us are talking about. I don't want to take that away from you.
What I AM wanting to do is say that telling us that not putting out is why we're unhappy with our relationships is misguided. I don't WANT you to know what it's like to just want to be held, after a day (and night) of breastfeeding two children, teaching them how to navigate their world, keep a place tidy (because DP doesn't seem to notice or offer to change the fact that the floor inside looks like the ground outside), keep everyone fed to their taste, clothes clean, bills paid, activities attended, appointments made, fridge full with very little contribution for those things (yes, yes, he works so we can have those things...and he gets to clock off, so bite me) AND a grown person having a near tanty because you just want some friggin personal space...and if not complete isolation, then a recharging, love-infusing snuggle that says "geez, you work hard, you hardly have any time to yourself, if this snuggle is all you want for now I'll give you that and let you know I don't just want you near me so I can park my penis in you after the lights go out".
Yeah? Yeah.
ETA: And another thing - what's it to you (no-one specific, just those of you who think I'm not trying enough) if I don't give my partner the kind of sex you believe we should be having? If it means that much to you, then come over and give him some. Didn't think so! We're not telling you that you 'should' be too fed up with your workload and fatigue levels to have sex, no-one is 'shoulding' you, because we are aware that your relationship has other factors that enable more enjoyment and availability of nice sex, and that's great. It is no-one's place to say "well, you're not physically traumatised from birth, so you have no excuses" about my own situation of not having much sex.
I have a very energetic and engaged 4.5yo who takes up more energy than most mums I know want or have to put into their own children. Once he's in bed my body goes into a holding pattern. That may not be you. I don't care. It's me. I don't answer to you. If I post something here on BB about my relationship and you know that I don't have sex every night, I do not want you to then tell me it's my fault I'm having issues because i won't put out. Because, chances are, that's not the crux of the problem.
If you know of a relationship that isn't that great and you also know that they don't have much sex, the best conclusion you can draw from that is that "there is something else going on, the no sex is just a symptom, not the cause".
We're in the process of coming out of some tough years, being where we didn't want to be and not being in a position to go where we wanted to, and seriously in danger of ending up apart. Intercourse frequency was and is not our problem.
And boy, do I remember eating humble pie about my assumptions, not just when the kids came along and changed my world view, but even during pregnancy I changed my mind on things! Didn't think I'd be a co-sleeper, full term breastfeeder, EC'er...lots of things change, and there's no shame in saying "Now I know differently". The louder you bleat about things you're convinced about, in the arrogance of ignorance (as I say, I had this arrogance, too!), the harder it is to back up the truck

[Reet]

there have been numerous "i don't feel supported" type comments - and, without saying this is the case in any of the relationships mentioned, i wonder if some of the lack of support is because both parties are struggling. One person feeling unsupported as SAHP and their needs are not being met (in terms of dishes or whatever other assistance they need), the other not feeling met on a physical or emotional intimacy level. it then becomes a viscious cycle of "if s/he can't do this for me, i can't do that for them". i know i've said it jokingly to my DH - if you do this, i'll do that for you. but it's not always a joke - it can be a serious thing, and the cycle can lead to a point where it's a habit just too hard to break.

I was going to bring this up earlier! I definitely agree here. If a man regards sex as a high priority in the relationship and hes not getting any and just keeps getting pushed away he's probably not going to want to put in any effort to help his partner out with anything that she thinks is a high priority.

I also agree with what Alish was saying, i for one know that if my dh had to listen to excuses why i didnt want to have sex with him constantly and that vital part of our relationship was missing and i wasnt putting in any effort whatsoever to make him feel loved and appreciated.. I honestly cant say he wldnt consider straying after a while.. I know theres a few of u that have said thats a really sad relationship to be in and we wont last the distance but i guess in our relationship to keep it happy and healthy sex is a high priority. Obviously in other relationships sex isnt a high priority so they dont suffer as much if there isnt any going on.

I bet if u got all the men rounded up who have cheated, whether it be a full blown affair, a drunken one nighter or getting prostitutes and asked them if they were getting lovely great fulfilling sex at home majority of them wld say definitely not! Why wld they be looking elsewhere if they were??!
But yeah like i said, I also understand that theres a lot of women in relationships where sex isnt a high priority so it wldnt be an issue if they werent getting any.

We've just got to remember every relationship is different, and all that matters is what works for u as a couple.

[Taurean]

I bet if u got all the men rounded up who have cheated, whether it be a full blown affair, a drunken one nighter or getting prostitutes and asked them if they were getting lovely great fulfilling sex at home majority of them wld say definitely not! Why wld they be looking elsewhere if they were??!

Another very broad statement. Maybe you will learn more about these things with age (and experience - personal or via friends/family), I sure have. NOTHING is that black and white.

My best friend's DH of 10 years had an affair, destroyed their marriage. And I know, being close to both my best friend and her DH that their sex was plentiful and far from ordinary. They had a fabulous sex life despite my besty looking after two little kids pretty much on her own (because her DH was too selfish to offer much help but hey, there was sex!) AND she was recovering from a 4th degree tear after giving birth to her first born (which required months of internal physio). Their sex life was so good in fact that my poor besty had been giving out sex (in all forms!) to her husband some evenings totally unaware he had just come home from his lovers house!!

Reet, your comment about

remembering every realationship is different

is great though. Yes they are and what works for one, won't necessarily work for another.

Communication is the key

[Smoke Jaguar]

Hmmm, infidelity is so not about not getting sex after children are born!
When you describe the situation of declining sex as 'habit', then I KNOW you don't actually know what you're talking about, in terms of your opinion of what's going on in someone else's relationship.

[Arcadia]

I think this is a great thread, but for the sake of the discussion, perhaps we should steer away from comments about cheating...? There are so many elements in a relationship and sex and loyalty are very complicated issues.

I think the biggest change for me post-baby though was the huge hormonal and lifestyle shift...it wasn't that I was just too tired it was that (warning tmi) my vagina felt dry thanks to hormonal changes and my breasts were no longer aroused sexually (thanks to day and night feeding), and that because I spent all day kissing my baby, even my lips were desensitised.

Looking back now (and seeing I am about to go there again), I know I can encourage my body gently to want to engage in sex even despite these things, but DH never EVER forced me, and our relationship certainly hasn't suffered long term because of the changes.

I admire people who are determined for things "not to change" once baby comes along, but in my experience that lead to even more angst for me. It is NORMAL for it to be different. Sometimes its better and sometimes its worse...there is no black and white with these things.

[Just Me]

I bet if u got all the men rounded up who have cheated, whether it be a full blown affair, a drunken one nighter or getting prostitutes and asked them if they were getting lovely great fulfilling sex at home majority of them wld say definitely not! Why wld they be looking elsewhere if they were??!

Because not every affair/one night stand etc is about sex. Sometimes people make mistakes and bad choices without considering the consequences - they go with the moment because it feels good. They look for the instant gratification and don't consider the consequences. Some affairs sneak up on people too - they can be going about their day to day business while feeling quite satisfied in their life and relationship and find themselves feeling connected to another person without meaning anything by it and desire can grow from that (there was a thread posted sometime in the last year by a member here about her affair and it was along these lines). I don't think that affairs only happen to people that are unhappy in their relationship - they happen to people that are not looking for it, never dreamed they would do it, who are very committed to their partners and feel very content and satisfied with their relationship.

I find the idea that it is okay for men to stray just because they aren't having enough sex a bit bizarre. Don't we have more self esteem than that? Aren't we better than what we can do for our partners in the bedroom? My DH is committed to me and not just for my body ... for my mind, for my beliefs, for my values, for my perspective on life, because we are great friends and we make a great team (with or without sex).

If a man regards sex as a high priority in the relationship and hes not getting any and just keeps getting pushed away he's probably not going to want to put in any effort to help his partner out with anything that she thinks is a high priority.

Sadly, I have read a lot of threads from women who do show their partners they are loved and appreciated in many ways (including sex) and their partners still don't put in any effort to help them out. I think it is partly because partners don't always understand exactly how much work goes into raising kids, maintaining a house, putting food on the table every night, washing, drying and folding clothes (some of them don't want to understand either and probably never will). I think sometimes it is laziness and sometimes it is because they simply don't think it is their job - they see their role as the bread winner and the role of the mum is to raise the children and clean the house. I think if you have a partner that helps you out and puts in an effort, they are going to do it regardless of how much (or how little) sex they are getting.

Talking from a completely personal perspective here - if my DH was holding helping me out at ransome in exchange for sex, I would feel very manipulated and a little bit like a prostitute. Sex is something that we give each other freely (and by freely, I mean no strings attached). I don't expect anything from him just because I have sex with him, just like when he helps me out around the house, he doesn't expect a sexual favour. Sex is something we both do because we want to - not because I am meeting his 'needs' but because it is a mutual exchange.

This next bit is a general response to the whole thread, not just to Reet's post I think having ideals about how you feel your sex life will work after you have a baby is a great thing - there is nothing wrong with that. I think the thing I am struggling with in reading some of these posts, is that you can't put your own ideals onto other people and expect them to live them out - especially when you haven't experienced life with kids yet. I don't want to say that other people's thoughts and life experiences so far aren't valid, because for each individual they are, but when posts talk in broader terms and generalise the ideal out to other people, then I don't think it is right. Just like it isn't right for me to presume that other people will feel the same way that I do after I have a baby, it is right to put presumptions onto people who do have babies that they should approach sex the way that your ideals say they should.

I think liberating women in sexual freedom is a really important thing but I don't think that means that sexual freedom is the same thing for everyone. For some people it is owning your own sexuality and enjoying it, not feeling embarrassed or ashamed but for others it is the freedom to say no without retribution, or simply breaking away from the stereotype that women have to put out in order to keep their man and the ideal that in a relationship you 'owe' your partner sex. Being liberated is not about conforming to everyone else's ideals. It is about knowing what you want, how you feel, about what is best for you and going after it.

ETA: Sorry Arcadia you must have posted while I was reading/typing ... so I have carried on the discussion about infidelity (whoops )