Can I bag out other sites??

[Cricket]

OK, I stole this from another site (drgreene) It just came up when I googled this topic.

DrGreene Content


"Several types of environmental stimuli can alter her internal rhythm. The most powerful wake-up activity is direct eye contact. When your baby locks eyes with you, it's almost like she's drinking a double latte -- her heart rate speeds up, her blood pressure rises a bit, and she becomes more awake. Babies also tend to become more alert when exposed to bright lights, the sound of conversational speech (they want to know what everybody's talking about), and having their feet tickled and played with.

When actively trying to switch a new baby's time clock, have bright lights on in the house during daylight hours. Keep up a steady stream of talking in normal conversational tones around your daughter during the day. Play with her feet often, and make eye contact with her whenever you can.

As soon as the sun begins to go down, purposely avoid all of these things. When you feed her, try not to make eye contact with her. Speak only in whispers or sing-song tones. Sing lullabies. Have the lights dim in the house. And don't stimulate her feet.

Of course, some daytime naps are appropriate, and your daughter should be awake at night for feedings. The goal is to try to move your daughter's primary awake time to the daylight hours. By following the above suggestions, her rhythm should change fairly rapidly. Doing this for as little as two or three days and nights will make a dramatic difference. You can help her body learn the rhythm that daytime is for excitement, play, and interaction while nighttime is for cuddling and sleeping."

Just some thoughts! I don't think ANYONE would recommend no eye contact with your baby! Just tone it down a little when they are tired! Snuggle instead.

[sushee]

I have to admit to agreeing with some of what Dr Greene said, my heart picks up speed and I become more alert too when I connect with someone I care about. And again I can see how what he's saying might work - don't connect with them and they won't be as aroused. But there are a heap of opposing studies that say being responsive equates to a more secure child, so if eye contact means baby is as excited to see me and I am to see him, then that's a pretty good result in my book, day or night.

[Janie]

I haven't had time to read through all of the responses, but I wanted to say that I went to a seminar recently where Pinky spoke, and she talked quite a bit about this. She showed video footage of a study done on mothers not responding to their babies, particularly not making eye contact, and it was heartbreaking. I think nearly everyone watching it cried. I understand the theory behind it, but I think you and your baby pay a price for doing it.

They're so tiny for such a small amount of time, it's important to nuture them when they're little.

[meow]

The funny thing is that when my little bubba he generally doesn't make eye contact anyway. But sometimes he chooses to look up me and I'm glad I'm quietly looking back. Then he usually just gazes off over my head.

The never settle in your arms bit bothered me hugely. The advice was that holding is for feeding, floor is for play and cot is for sleep. Again- arrgghhh!!! Can a newborn never feel the love of falling asleep in mummy's arms? Breaks my heart and gets me worried about the disconnected children we're raising.

[Willow]

Even the sleep school I went to who, let's face it, haven't had the best reputation for gentle methods in the past told me the no eye contact thing was total crap and completely unnatural.

[BellyBelly]

I think this thread has been blown waaaaaay out of proportion and has been over analysed. I've nearly wished for the ignore button!!!

I guess we do have to watch our language (sometimes what we mean comes out wrong language wise), but at the same time I understand what the OP meant. And it is terrible for a site to be advocating one thing... it should have said, 'some mothers find xxx works and some mothers find xxx works.' There are too many sites that say don't give eye contact or don't cuddle your baby or don't whatever, like the govt website that says, hey its okay if your baby vomits during controlled crying, just dont make a fuss, change it and continue on...

I think this is what the thread was all about and I am sure that everyone who posted meant exactly that - it is not nice to tell mothers to do things one way which a mother may take the wrong way as being 'THE' way to do it and end up with a disconnected baby. I know I persisted with CC with my daughter even after two or three weeks after I thought it wasn't working because I thought it was 'THE' way to do it and the only way I would get sleep (when it worked).

So can we not all be so techincal now?! Yes be careful of language and how you imply others as opposed to other sites or routines but at the same time it is okay to discuss this - what worked for you, what didn't and yes it's inappropriate to to tell mums one way fits all.

Moving on? Please?

[LimeSlice]

And the voice of reason shines through! lol

[River]

I am enjoying this thread, I think that open discussions about topics like this are good to help everyone realise their own parenting positions.....from time to time LOL, repetitively doing so would be tiresome. It also helps people realise that advice is advice and not judgements or orders. It helps mothers gain strength in their instincts and ability to parent. It helps parents realise that even within an ethos, there are many people who do varied things.

I think the government sites need to stop taking a 'tell em what to do' stance and start giving generalised advice rather than parenting 'instructions'. I think that the first line in any topic on 'how to' parenting issues should be "take all advice under consideration and choose what works for you and your family".

As for the government sites content, I think that for a government who is struggling to fight the wave of child abuse in our community it is weird that they advocate harsh parenting methods ONLY from the get-go. Sends a message that parents need to be dismissive from the start I reakon, regardless of whether or not those methods are warranted in your situation, some babies thrive with a firmer hand, others wither. Can't they see that if a parent can let a wee bub vomit themselves to sleep from birth, what could they let that child do (or do to them) when they are older? They should be advocating a nurturing community and see if that helps family bonding later down the track. Yes some of their methods might be perfect for some situations, but they are pretty much telling everyone that this is 'normal' for parenting!

[~Saram~]

Another one here who is deeply saddened by the sheer number of parents who are being fed this info in antenatal class MCHN etc. When DS was not sleeping through the night at 6mths I was bombarded with CC, and "settling techniques"

While I often close my eyes when putting my babies to sleep my face is still turned towards them and there is nothing so precious as watching you baby slowly fall asleep looking back at you.

My favourite parts of the day are gently putting my kids to sleep, lying down with them or gently rocking them it is the most beautiful and calming part of everyday for all of us.

As for the comment on holding is for feeding, floor for play etc, perhaps this is the reason for the increase in flat heads in little babies! Both my babies have spent their awake time in slings, in my arms and on the floor with me

[Lulu]

It's also hard when one book, one author or one website (not this one!) decides there is ONE way to go and stubbornly sticks to it. Follow the rules and you will get this outcome.....just follow the RULES.

I wish they would all have the foresight to say "if this technique is not working for you or is upsetting for you, maybe you can try something else".....etc. But of course they dont, because "they" want to have the answer and make a lotta $$$

[BellyBelly]

You've hit the nail on the head there Lulu - much more money in - 'make your baby sleep from 7 to 7' than, 'here's a few things that could help your baby sleep'....

[Astrid]

It's also hard when one book, one author or one website (not this one!) decides there is ONE way to go and stubbornly sticks to it. Follow the rules and you will get this outcome.....just follow the RULES.

True, especially when the advice ignores other factors, such as possible illness, food intolerances, allergies etc To me it is cruel not to eliminate those factors first. As adults we would not insist on making ourselves go to sleep with a tummy ache, so why do some people think we should do it to our babies?

[Roryrory]

The advice was that holding is for feeding, floor is for play and cot is for sleep.

Wow, that is harsh

Personally I have cuddled both my boys to sleep and LOVE cuddling them while they snooze, but at the same time have put them to bed in their own cot (in our room) and do not baby-wear. Why do these sorts of sites have to polarise parenting so much? Its not like you have to do EVERYTHING that gentle parenting might suggest (such as co-sleeping) but why can't these pro-detatched parenting sites take a little from other ways of doing things?

[Lucy]

Rory, I agree.

Why does there have to be a particular 'school of parenting' that a mummy fits into?

I am like a magpie: I pick and chose the concepts I like from all sorts of avenues of advice.

I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........

[meow]

I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........

So true- I agree. That is why it bothered me so much that this site was so firm in it's directions, many of which go against a mother's instincts. Such as giving you the impression that if you let your baby fall asleep in your arms just once then problems will occur. I feel so sad for women that the instinct of mothering is being questioned and women are left questioning themselves and feeling like failures rather than feeling empowered.

[River]

Rory, I agree.

Why does there have to be a particular 'school of parenting' that a mummy fits into?

I am like a magpie: I pick and chose the concepts I like from all sorts of avenues of advice.

I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........

I completely agree. I don't like the lables given to parents....gentle parent, attatchment parent etc. It makes one feel judged if not conforming to the entire ethos. It gives parents a heck of a lot to live up to. I don't like any concept which states categorically that one way is the absolute right way to do it.

Eye contact limitations in the middle of the night might work for some and not for others. To say that it's horrible or cruel is harsh. Some babies get overstimulated by it, some babies need to look into their mothers eyes to fall asleep. That is why parents need to follow their instincts with parenting.

How bad would it be for a mother to read comments about how cruel it is to not give eye contact at night and go against her instincts which are telling her that her baby just doesn't settle at night being overstimulated? Less sleep all around and teaching Mum to ignore her instincts.

I think that as long as parents have the best interest of the child at heart, are listening to themselves first and advice second, they are wonderful parents, regardless of where they *technically* fall in the world of lables.

JMO of course .

[mummy of many]

We carry our tiny little bundles for a long 9 months and often wonder what they look like and can`t wait to see them, hold them,theres nothing more special than looking into your bubs eyes and giving them a cuddle or two ,or rocking them gently to sleep,we all have our own ideas and methods that work for us,but having no eye to eye contact is so very text bookish to me...... only my opinion though. I personally love to sing very quietly to my little bub,he loves it.A happy baby is a very happy mummy, lol.

[LuluHB]

I think what's really sad about all of this is that these things are all said so that babies sleep better so that life is more convenient for us. I'm not sure whether I feel more sadness or anger when I hear women talking about how their lives won't change, that baby will fit in with them etc etc. Why bother having a child - just buy a new handbag! My DD has completely turned my world upside down. I have faint memories of the person I used to be and the life I used to lead. I had my last ever brunch with a girlfriend with my DD last week because she is just too active now to happily sit in the pram and listen to us gossip for a few hours. And you know what. I love it. Its a privilege to have a child, not a right, and my job is to make her feel like the most safe, secure and loved creature on this planet. If she takes longer to settle at night because we're having beautiful cuddles and staring at each other with loving expressions and trust, then I think I am the luckiest woman in the world.