Gentle Parenting Toddlers

[Matryoshka]

I'd love to hear of your successes with Gentle Parenting your toddlers... how you dealt with challenging behaviour, the "me" ownership of everything in the house. Keen to avoid saying no but it is becoming more frequent here as he becomes more independant. Tips and hints most welcome please!

[~Saram~]

We used "not for Xander" instead of no and reserved no for very important safety things. We continues to redirect until he was about 3. Depends on what spefic problems you are looking at. There was a good book, by Dr Green or something ( I know very helpful) that were attachment parenting writers, him and his wife raised 5 or 7 kids according to attachment/gentle parenting

[Matryoshka]

Yep re-directing/distracting has been working but if its something he wants to touch or do he wails and throws himself on to the floor - not a temper but can see his frustration. Our house is okay, other peoples houses who don't have kids is a nightmare. People look at me wondering why he goes up to their vase for the 30th time and i've explained that he doesn't remember that i've said "no" or "danger" (use that over no unless emergency)... i read somewhere at this age they don't have the memory capacity to "learn" not to touch the same thing.

[MantaRay]

We also try (not always easy to do), to use the non-negative version - ie instead of "don't touch", then "leave that one alone" or "come over here instead", something like that. There are probably a few other tips I could add but Jack is wanting me to play with him now. Might BBL.

[Matryoshka]

yeah i know what you mean, instead of saying "thats not yours" i say "hey this ones yours" etc etc, or if he's doing something undesirable i'll say "hey lets go and do this, its more fun" etc.

What do you do when they throw them selves down? do you comfort or ignore? I've been comforting so far.

[MantaRay]

I comfort basically. I will try and talk to him about what he's feeling and what he can do about it (other than tanty). I get down to his level and try to look him in the eye while talking. Actually Jack's communications skills are very good, so we don't actually have many tatnies. He's only thrown himself down twice. So I think the key is talking about emotions - feeling angry and sad etc. Then some comfort and distraction. I don't think ignoring helps at all - it means they have to go through it alone and are no closer to understanding what they are feeling, why they are feeling it, or acceptable ways to deal with those feelings.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I've been reserving 'no' for the important things, like bringing something heavy down onto his head, potentially or actually (one day he'll see cause and effect!), from a high surface! Redirecting has been my tactic, as has the rephrasing into 'leave it', 'put it down', 'let go' (in Spanish and English) and 'gentle' (in Spanish and English!) - the last two usually used for when DS grabs the little dog by the hair and reefs it...
I'm sure it would somehow make other people feel better just to see me say no and maybe give a smack on the hand, but that won't actually teach Oscar anything more than to hit when he wants something from someone else! When I take something he shouldn't have out of his hand, I ask him and say please, so that he doesn't learn about snatching from me.
The other thing I try very hard not to do is to teach about personal possessions. I don't want him to go round saying 'mine' and getting upset when someone takes something from him more than he needs to when he reaches that developmental stage. I know we don't even live in that sort of society, though it would be really lovely if I could instill some Aboriginal philosophy of objects into him - which is, that you don't actually ever 'own' anything (from my understanding, at least).
I see a lot of friends with older kids get really upset when Oscar takes something of theirs to play with that they were not even remotely interested in, until Oscar started to play with it. I realise that kids will go through this, but I wonder how much of it is imparted by telling kids that things are 'theirs' and placating them by saying 'this one is yours, and not x's'. That's why I like the saying "Not for Oscar", as you have suggested, instead of 'not Oscar's', if that makes sense!
I'm rambling, sorry!

[Matryoshka]

yeah i know what u mean, DS can pretty much touch anything in the house, its all here for everyone, and its nice for him to experience different functions/textures/sensations... if its potentially dangerous i say "Danger not for DS".... "here this one is safe" and give replacement object.

Its just hard at others houses where people have so many fandangled expensive ornamental things.

If we're at the shops and he grabs something and cries when i put it back i usually say "oh that was nice you had a good play with that but we leave it here now" etc. He hasn't had a full blown tanty yet, he seems to forget quite quickly.

[paradise lost]

Hmm, i do say no, but i follow it with instructions, rather than just saying no all day.

For instance a mug of hot coffee next to me, as i bring it from the kitchen i say "DD?" and when she's looking i point emphatically at the mug and say "DD, HOT, NO touching" and then she knows not to touch it. She has once pulled a coffee over herself (many months ago) so i wonder if that helped her "learn"? She wasn't burned but i think my fright gave her a fright. She will often point to empty mugs and say "cayrfoo (careful) mumma, hot!" so it's obviously gone in.

I offer the positive alternative to avert tantrums. Like if she wants to get down from the table before the meal is finished (she doesn't have to eat it all, but she has to stay until the meal is over) i say "Yes, you can get down in a minute", if she wants the toy that's in the washing machine i say "Oh, x is having a bath, but i think y need a cuddle, can DD do?"

For real danger i have a tone "Ah! ah! ah!" said loud and fast which stops her in her tracks. She says it to me when i'm putting shoes on her or something similar and she doesn't want me to..... It'd be ok if i could save "no" for only very critical things, but her father is not so on board and uses no a lot and i don't want her to be either ignoring me because of him or a nervous wreck at his house because of me...

9 times out of 10 i try to LET her do what she wants (not drink bleach, but climbing and jumping and things) because if it's dangerous it's probably not more than wee bruise dangerous and if it isn't then she'll only gain confidence doing it. I tell her to be careful and go slow if it looks dangerous but i don't stop her everytime. Last week she was stood on the back of her rocking horse on one leg, holding the windowsill with 2 fingers to help balance and saying "Cayrfoo, Oh dahlin, cayrfoo, cayrfoo."

Bx

[Rouge]

Bec I'd say I do exactly the same as you. I think you can still be gentle and still say no, and its not so much the no but how you follow through with it that counts. I think children should hear no because its a way to implement boundaries, and they need to know just as its ok for us to say no they have a right to say it too and if they don't hear it they might not use it themselves.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Saying 'no' in a sentence is very different from just saying 'no' when they touch something or want to go somewhere that you don't want them going to.
I need Oscar to pay attention when I say 'no' cos if I'm saying it, it's because the consequences are serious, not just inconvenient (like tidying up CD's or my shoe cupboard!
I want him to know that he is more important than a messy house, and that it is important enough to both of us when he's doing something that incurs a 'No'. In fact, I don't even make a conscious effort not to say 'no', I just don't use it much, even in an emergency situation. The first thing that's come out of my mouth when he's at risk of injury is 'Oi!'...that gets his attention cos I hardly ever just yell that out!
I figure that he'll hear 'no' and 'you can't do that' and other things plenty when he's experiencing the world more. Meanwhile, I'd like to set him up with constructive language that empowers. As we all know, there is enough disempowerment in our wider experience without teaching him how to accept disempowerment in the home. Language is very powerful, whether you believe it or not, and words disempower more than anything else. 'No' as a word in a sentence is a valid construct, 'no' as an instruction to stay away from, what must seem an arbitrary boundary to a young child, is not very effective, in my opinion, unless applied in limited contexts.
Ultimately, though, I really don't want one of Oscar's first words, to be repeated ad nauseum, to be 'no', even when he means yes but he's heard 'no' so much that he thinks it's the right response!

[Rouge]

For me its not just no that gets said. Its part of a whole load of words For us it works, and at 18 months it hasn't been a problem. But to be perfectly honest I say "Look at mummy" before or more than anything else as that gets his attention and then we discuss what ever it is LOL! With Paris we just discussed what we should be doing rather than what was happening (which I do with Seth too, but we have to get his attention first LOL). So in reality I'm sure we do things very similarly I just don't really think about how many no's I say because its not the biggest part of the conversation iykwim?

I hope my post didn't make you feel as though you needed to defend your actions as I would never want to do that, just trying to show a different perspective iykwim?

[paradise lost]

Lol Cai, i'm sure there's a book about why saying "no" should be avoided/saved, but i haven't read it and it doesn't make logical sense to my life so i don't do it. Like, i can SEE hitting someone, whatever age they are, is very disrespectful, so i'd never do that, but i hear "no" most days and have to tell myself it sometimes too, so, i guess, for me, i don't consider it harmful. I suppose i'm gentle because i don't smack or yell (though i have yelled when i was so far at the end of the tether i was strangling on it..) but i'm bloody strict too!

Bx

ETA - geez, you girls is fast! The above was for Cai's first post. DD says "no" to me Mayaness, and i'd never thought of her being disempowered by it! That's an interesting perspective! When i hear "No" from her i know it's time to slow down and discuss why something has to happen as i usually find it's when i'm in a rush and she's feeling overwhelmed by the speed things are happening. I can definitely see that if i said No and then steamrollered her when SHE said no, that really would disempower. I think part of my stance is because i suffered quite a lot when i was a kid because of my inability to articulate a decisive "No".

[Beach Mama]

I love how much I learn from all of you!! Reading through this thread and lots of others like it really makes me think about how I will deal with Izzy as she grows up and obviously now too. Thanks

[Smoke Jaguar]

It's all relative! No offence taken anywhere here - when it comes down to it, you do what you gotta do for your own situation.
From my own perspective, the disempowerment angle comes in when the 'no' comes from the parent a lot. I would hope that I have other methods of dissuasion {ETA: geez, what typos don't I notice when the kid's around??} than reverting to the autocracy used on me and other parenting I see.
The annoyance angle would come in when DS learns to say it - and if he hears me say it enough, he'll say it back to me and that would drive me nuts! So, they were two separate issues, not my thinking that one is related to the other, if that makes sense!

[Rouge]

I understand and like I said I think we are very similar. I personally think its all about comunication, and saying just "no" isn't going to cut it. There needs to be more than that. I dunno I just look at my kids and they don't seem disempowered in any way, if anything the opposite. Like I say we probably do things very similar, and when I asked Marc he said I don't actually use the word "No" very often but use other ways to communicate no, be it words, tones or actions. To me its no different... you're still saying no LOL!

[Matryoshka]

Yep sounds like we're all doing similar things in the way of the "no" thing.

Now in regards to meals.... how do you deal with throwing food/spitting food out? (thinks its funny). And rejecting certain foods over others? ie. won't eat fruit or veg but will eat a sandwich.
Also do you allow your toddler to eat all around the house or just in the high chair? do you have no food zones and how do you manage this.

[paradise lost]

I totally ignore all behaviour i don't like unless it's dangerous in which case i remove her from danger but make no comment or eye-contact. So if she throws food i say "you don't have to eat it but please don't throw it". Then i lighten my tone and move on immediately. I also operate 3 strikes rule. So if she throws her food 3 times, having been warned twice "If you throw your food mumma will take it away" then i do and if she's hungry it's tough!

I have a 30 minute exclusion, because i don't think she remembers much specifically beyond that - like if i offer breakfast and she tosses it about and i take it away, 30 minutes feels a LONG time to be hungry for her, while i still know she won't starve. After that she's allowed to snack (but we only snack on fruit or veggies) since she's likely to have forgotten why she's hungry by then.

Luckily she doesn't throw her food much anymore, so it's probably a phase you're suffering

As for choices, well, within reason she can chose - breakfast is usually toast or porridge and fruit. Every day she gets to choose the fruit (usually a banana unless we have grapes, which she loves) and i decide if i'm giving her toast or porridge. She never has to finish anything - my mum lives through WWII and i spent most of my childhood mealimes sitting miserably, forcing cold, unwanted food into my mouth. I am determined to let her feed herself intuitively and not make an issue out of food. So, at mealtimes she usually has to sit at table with me, in her highchair, she can snack wherever she wants unless it's messy (banana and yogurt for instance). Sometimes we don't eat together (like if i'm going to work out i need to have eaten well 3 hours before i hit the road/pool/gym, so then she eats alone) and in that case she's allowed to play and just come to me (i keep hold of the bowl of food) for a forkful every now and then. When she stops coming i keep offering until she declines, then i take it away. There are no "exclusion" zones in the house, though i do try to keep her in the living room and kitchen because the floors are laminate and clean easy!

As for being picky...well, i guess the most effective way i've found of getting her to eat is to fill myself a plate, curiosity always makes her determined not to miss out on anything! I also limit her. So i KNOW she'll always eat toast but if she doesn't eat what she's offered she can only have fruit in between, and she'll be hungry. She's still VERY flexible with her food and enjoys chilli, curry, fish, even raw sushi, all kinds of fruit and veggies, you name it, but i'm prepared for this to change in the future.

There are still days when i wonder how she can still possibly be walking around on the tiny amount of calories she's consumed but she's always on the 50th%ile for weight so i try not to worry.

WHat a novel! Hope some of it helped.

Bx