how do i or can i teach consequences

[Jennifer13]

Personally, I love Pinky McKay's book Toddler Tactics (it's free if you renew your ABA subscription, JIC that applies to you). I'd be happy to lend it to you if you PM me with your address. Can't recommend it highly enough. It covers everything, but helps you see things from your toddler's perspective. A very gentle approach.

[Crystalwings]

Very interesting debate ladies, some great points made.
In regards to the further reading Louise Porter is excellent and her behaviour management model is about nurturing the whole child through promoting positive self esteem.
I personally think you can be friendly with your children but they also need to know boundries otherwise you can be setting them up for failure. I have seen this happen on so many occasions where parents are their childs friend and it impacts on other relationships for the rest of the childs life. Children crave structure to some degree and to learn to respect other people's belongings and feeling is a life skill. I have seen children at work who do the same negative behaviour every day several times a day knowing what the consequence may be just to test if we will be consistant and follow through. In my experience being your child's friend doesn't always make a happier child because they are often the children who don't understand boundries. I also think in regards to the friends debate that one of the fundamental flaws with this is that we choose our friends and deciding to be your childs friend isn't giving them that choice. I am great friends with my parents now but as a child I knew they were my parents and didn't want them as friends. As RHF said being your child's friend isn't like having a real friend becuase it isn't an equal partnership.
I agree with Hoolbey in regards to time out for babies and distracting them. I also wanted to point out that time out doesn't have to be a 'naughty chair'. IMO effective time out is removing the child from the situation. It could be that they need to do a quiet puzzle to calm down or go to their room for a couple of minutes for some time out. It doesn't matter if they play, you aren't rewarding the behaviour, you are removing them from a negative situation.

[paradise lost]

I also wanted to point out that time out doesn't have to be a 'naughty chair'. IMO effective time out is removing the child from the situation. It could be that they need to do a quiet puzzle to calm down or go to their room for a couple of minutes for some time out. It doesn't matter if they play, you aren't rewarding the behaviour, you are removing them from a negative situation.

How true! In fact the stairs is our chosen point of reflection because DD loves to look at the stained glass window and the "interesting" pattern (horrifically busy to my eyes, but it's a rental, what can you do) on the carpet. This always inspires a bit of peace in her. I think of the time out as like going to splash cold water on your face. It should stop and refresh and cleanse the negativity away, ready for the next adventure.

Bx

[Smoke Jaguar]

Hmmm, I still think we're going round in circles about our definition of 'friends' in this context, though Ryn and I have settled on what we mean about it. Plus, I do believe, in a certain metaphysical way, that DS chose us as parents, although I realise you mean 'choosing friends' in a different way. I mean 'friends' in a way that is specific to DS's and my relationship, and others think I mean 'friends' in the way they have friends. It's possible to have all sorts of friends, even ones you actively guide and teach

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I was thinking about this recently.

How do I teach consequences?

Well, let's start with how I teach about Shroedinger's cat, to take today's example of what DS wanted to know about. (I know it's Shr?dinger but I can't have the o-umlaut here). There's a lot to explain first. But to DS, it's just a picture of a cat on the cover of a book Mammy is reading. He doesn't need to know much about quantum theory just yet, nor does he need to think about trapping cats in boxes with a radioactive source. I can explain to him that the act of observing changes the thing observed; that we don't know something until we've seen it. So do we know if there are Moose on the farm? (DS asked that one.) Let's find out. There may not be, according to what we know from before, but we don't know if we don't look. I think not, but I'm not always right (is it OK to teach our childer that?). OK, so there were no moose, but that's Shroedinger's cat sort of stuff that a 2-year-old can almost understand. You don't tell him that the moose were there and weren't there but they only were definately not there when we went out and looked.

So how do I teach consequences? Can I teach that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? Yes. I can teach DS that if he does ABC then XYZ happens. And he can see that's logical - if he pushes a train, it moves. If he pulls the light cord in the bathroom, the light comes on. Push the buzzer and the bell rings. Hit Mammy and she stops cuddling you. Those are all logical reactions.

WRT smacking, that's rarely logical beyond the "you do that and you get a smack." Why do you get a smack? Mammy stops cuddling because she is hurt, the TV turns on because you press a button, Da reads a book when you take him one... why if I get my train set out when you've just put it away do I get a smack? Makes no sense.

DS is "destructive" and as a consequence my things have moved away from him and he may not touch my palmtop. He is also neat; he puts rubbish in the bin (great for me when I can't be bothered to move in the afternoon!). He does this with litter too. He has learnt that if he does something well for the first time, he hears the words "good boy" or "well done" - in fact he says this to himself if he has just done something he finds tricky and I haven't realised just how much skill he needed for this task. He has learnt to take pride in his achievements, which is great.

I am waaaay more carrot than stick though. I don't ignore unwanted behaviour but I do change it. DS learns to say please. DS learns not to pull the curtains (he saw my mum do that once, just drawing the curtains, and pull the whole rail down on top of her!). Everything, he learns. By learning natural consequences from the start I think it will help him draw consequences in the future. So if he learns that if he can't go near the road if he isn't careful, he learns to be careful near roads. He may not comprehend why, but when he does the consequence for me is that he realises there is method to Mammy's madness, and listens to my rules more because they make sense.

I really hope this works LOL.

BTW - friends. We like and respect each other. Parent-child - he does as I say, because he likes and trusts me so knows there's a reason for it. Both work well. But not changing parent-child to peers - we get symapthy and help about things children shouldn't worry about.

[kelebek]

He has learnt that if he does something well for the first time, he hears the words "good boy" or "well done" - in fact he says this to himself if he has just done something he finds tricky and I haven't realised just how much skill he needed for this task. He has learnt to take pride in his achievements, which is great.

This is such a cute picture RH and I think it is wonderful that he is taking pride in his achievements. I also agree that I think it is healthy to teach kids that we as parents and adults don't always know or have the right answers but we teach them how to look for those answers. I also agree that a child shouldn't be put in a situation where they are told things that shouldn't be their worry.

I also like looking at time out more about removing them from the situation and distracting them then putthing them in the naughty corner so this is a great perspective.

Thanks Jen, I am currently a member of the ABA and would love a copy of Pinky's book about toddler tactics so I will be renewing very soon

Now RH you and others have mentioned about every action having an equal and opposite reaction and this has got me thinking (and yes I could be too pandantic here so feel free to tell me) I certainly believe that every action has a reaction I just get a bit hung up with 'equal and opposite' part.... see I am probably looking at this the wrong way... does this mean if kids act in a positive way the opposite reaction to this is that they are treated in a negative way, the same way you flip the coin and so the reaction is the opposite of the action or is it more a step by step process so child acts in a positive way so the reaction is also positive because it perpetuates itself and like attracts like - does that make sense cause I tend to drive myself crazy with these sorts of thoughts that just go round in circles ...

[Oorki Galoorki]

So how do I teach consequences? Can I teach that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? Yes. I can teach DS that if he does ABC then XYZ happens. And he can see that's logical - if he pushes a train, it moves. If he pulls the light cord in the bathroom, the light comes on. Push the buzzer and the bell rings. Hit Mammy and she stops cuddling you. Those are all logical reactions.

this is i think what i need to remember the most!

on our way to church this morning DS says "mummy, your my friend!" and my responce was "thankyou i would love you to be your friend but im also your mummy so that means i have an extra job to look after you and our family"
he pondered this for a minute and then said"mummy i have 2 friends" and i said "do you? who are they?"
"you and daddy"

so i think you can be a friend and a parent