Give me the reality of having 4....

[hj1981]

4 is an even number and evens are better than odd numbers!



Does that help?

[Kazmar]

I will be watching this thread as Im not sure where I will stop! haha
We will have a 3rd but I may not want to stop there!

[Trillian]

You wont need a larger, 4 bedder house - we have 4 in a 3 bedroom house and we are doing just fine Although I don't know if you have much of a yard? Having a decent sized yard is a must with a large family because you need the room for them to be able to play properly kwim? We've got no intention of expanding our house in the near future either - the girls have a room big enough for a single bed each, but we are getting bunks for the boys.

If you have a 7 seater car then you will be fine seat wise - but just check and see if your car is allowed to have an anchored car seat in the 3rd row - you can't in a lot of them as they have collapsible seats but you can in a Kia carnival and honda odyssey.

As for schooling, it is public school here all the way too. Educating them costs as much as you want it to cost. You get savvy with uniforms - I have been using the same jumpers since my eldest started school in 2006 - he got 2 years out of them and so did his sister. DD2 will wear them next year as well. Same with school shirts - I buy the kids 2 shirts each and I have gotten 2 years out of them - so for an outlay of $75 per child for shirts I have made them last a long time. DD2 wont need skorts when she starts next year as she will be getting DD1's and DD1 will get new ones kwim? Fees are capped at $70 per family per year. You don't have to buy much in the way of books either as all govt schools supply them.

Sports - seriously, do kids need to do more than one extra-curricular activity at a time? We had DS1 do auskick for 2 years and this year the 3 older ones did LIttle Athletics. Next year all 4 of them can do it. Your kids may not even be interested in sports - I have only let them do what they have been interested in. IMO children do not need a full time table of activities because it burns them out.

Kids cost as much as you want them to cost. Having only 2 children can cost as much as 4 because you get those 2 kids doing more activities, you buy them more expensive clothes etc etc but when you have 4 or more, you make your $$ go further and you get a bit smarter with where the money goes. THe only killer for us has been shoes. my first three have crap feet. They are wide with a high instep and DD1 needs orthotics in her shoes so we just cannot put crappy cheap shoes on their feet and kids are hard on shoes and wear them out more often than they grow out of them at times. Luckily DS2 has normal feet LOL.

I think that if you can see yourself regretting NOT having that 4th baby, then you should have it. I didn't want to look back in 20yrs time and regret not having my 4th baby kwim? So I think you should do it

ETA because Maz posted LOL. Yep accommodation is a shocker when you have 4, but we make it work. We book family rooms and request fold out beds and stay in self catered accommodation because you can sleep more people in a room. We are still able to afford holidays, it's just that we don't have time to go on a holiday.

[Curly]

I'm very interested in this thread...we always said 3, maybe 4 (which meant that we definitely wanted 4 but weren't advertising it because of the reaction from people and all the "are you mad?" comments).

However, I'm pregnant with Number 3 and we are now thinking we might be done because we just don't get a break. We don't have any family support at all, nobody living close, new to the state so no friends yet either. DS is in bed with us every night, DD wakes up and needs resettling once or twice at night. We are in an endless Groundhog Day...a happy Groundhog Day...but the buck always, always stops with us and we have nobody to call on except each other.

When I first found out I was pregnant I was still thinking this was my second last but as time has gone on I am finding it much more physically taxing. I am so tired and I am not being the parent I want to be because I simply do not have the energy. I am having some pelvic instability, my varicose veins are playing me up something shocking. I cannot imagine doing this again with 3 little kids to look after, I am really worried I wouldn't cope.

DH is leaving it up to me, he says it is ultimately my decision. He is happy with 3 or 4...I must say it is me thinking that my body has had enough and I don't physically want to go through another pregnancy and labour.

There are also practicalities in play in our discussions...3 kids are "easier" than 4 in terms of holiday accommodation, cars and whatnot. However, we have already bought our 7 seater which will accommodate 4 anchored carseats. We chose it when the 4th was definitely still on the agenda and that's okay...we may still change our minds.

Schooling..we are putting money away for it now via an Australian Scholarship Group fund but we are still planning on public school. We would only go private if we had a child with a gift a particular school would be better able to facilitate.

Physical and practical considerations aside, emotionally I would love a 4th, especially a brother for DS (Number 3 is a girl). I would need to get past that, though, and make sure I want a 4th for itself...not because I want DS to have a brother. And practically speaking, how close would they be if the 4th was a boy? There would be an age gap there of at least 5 years. I am another one who has deliberately chosen small age gaps between my kids because I grew up with larger age gaps and I hated that my siblings weren't my contemporaries. I am now 34 and we still haven't bridged those gaps completely.

All the same people who were all that we were even entertaining the idea of 4 are all very negative about only 3...."middle child, middle child!" I keep hearing, which is really p!$$ing me off, like I am deliberately making DD's life a misery going forward and that she is going to be somehow disadvantaged. My sister (the middle child) is saying to me "at least you'll be aware of it" which just annoys me even more. I think being a middle child is the lesser of two evils when the alternative is a mummy who is struggling to cope and not feeling like she has any quality time for any of her kids, not to mention to special time the middle child seems to require, massaging away any potential chips on shoulders, if I am to believe what I'm hearing.

But my best friend's mum is 4th of 6 and says SHE feels like a middle child...would I then get two middle children if we had 4? I've thought long and hard about this and I think it will come down to personality in the end...DH is one of 2 and he and his sister only just tolerate each other and both have said they wished they had another sibling because they hated the one they had!

DH and I have talked and talked about it and the idea of stopping at 3 is really growing on us...it started off a bit like "are we soft? are we giving up? we always said we wanted 4, we're in the thick of it now, what's one more? is this really the last one?" I think we've talked about it every day for the last 3 months...that's a lot of talking!!

Now we are thinking more along the lines of being able to have more time for each of the 3 children we will have...being able to move on to the next stage of life (ie no nappies, cots or highchairs) and the freedom that gives us in making family outings and holidays easier. That's been a big thing for us, as it turns out, we feel the longer we wait to have a 4th kind of also means we are holding back DS a bit in terms of doing things he is more than capable of but the younger ones might not appreciate eg going camping etc. In a perfect world we'd just keep having babies, we love them so much (and we make such beautiful babies!) But we don't live in that perfect world...and we are worried we wouldn't get to enjoy them or nurture them as they deserve. And although it is sad...I think at the moment we are feeling a sneaking sense of relief that perhaps this is the last one. We keep reminding ourselves we are entitled to consider our own needs too.

We have agreed that there will be no final decision made (ie no snipping of any sort!) until this one is about a year old...when we think we'll be able to make a clear headed decision as to whether we go back one more time.

I totally get what you mean about feeling there is another one waiting to be born. I know that feeling. In the months before I got pregnant, I could sense the presence of someone "waiting". However what is confusing me is that I always somehow knew my youngest would be a girl and I feel that this little soul is the one I have always been able to sense as being my youngest.

Those are my thoughts anyway...bit disjointed but hopefully something there helps you crystallise some thoughts of your own one way or the other.

[The_Gudism_Master]

Hello all

ok, I am going to have to put in my imput/opinion to my lovely wife's thread, in regards to what I see as the challenges that might be faced with 4 kidlets.

House wise....house size isnt always factored by bedrooms....yes one could get by with 4 kids in 2 bedroom.....large bedrooms. My problem being is as a child I shared a bedroom my whole childhood with my brother, and to be matter of fact it sucked! And I bet if you asked my brother the same, he would say the same! It was ok when we were younger (or more so I was younger, he is 6 years my senior) but as I got older it was 'draw a line int he sand and dont cross or die' sort of thing.

So ideally, 4 beds would be best...though some kids would still need to share.....5 beds.....just too expensive!!!

Also when I say house size isnt factored by bedrooms.....with 6 people in a house, then you need a big house, not massive, but good space & well designed (I work for architects so this is all my world so to speak). And especially here in Tasmania, when the winters can make you sorta 'live indoors' types.

I agree Trillian, big yards a must....and unfortunately the property we have just bought is little yard wise. (though this house is a 5 year plan)

Car wise, its not just having 2 cars or a 7 seater thats the issue. We will get another car down the track, but this is how i see it. If you have 5 people in the family, then you can have the big car (like our 7 seater) and then a smaller to mid range car as the 2nd one, because 5 people can still fit into it. (for eg Mels brother and his wife have 3 kids, and they have a larger people mover style vehicle, and then a Toyota Echo as the second, and they can fit in that (tightly though).
If you have 4 kids, I see you then need two 7 seaters, cos I feel it is pointless having another car that cannot transport everyone in the family.

Why not just get two 7 seaters?
Cost, and also, when we had 2 cars until recently, 1 of them hardly got driven (like once maybe twice a week?) so it is hard to justify the extra cost of a big costly 7 seater for not much 'drive time'.

Reading Trillians comments on schooling reminded me of the costs etc of public system....my parents sound like you! Though I was very tough on shoes.....being 6'7" tall now, and growing 5" in 1 year, I went though shoes fast! At one point I had a new pair every 2-3 weeks!! Mind you they were copping a battering from all the basketball I was playing too!

and btw Mel......I was a pretty good hockey goal keeper in my day!!!

[Trillian]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing that I sound like your parents? LOL

I guess i'm influenced in that I come first from a 4 child family and then a 4 child family with 2 step siblings and then add in a half sibling LOL and that was tough, I mean really tough financially for my Mum and her partner so we did go without a lot, so I totally get that things just arent' that simple and for me, the way we are living now, even with the 4 kids is like royalty LOL. but we were once in your position, 3 children and kinda undecided about a 4th. DH had a lot of the same concerns as you too. Our house works for now, but it isn't huge and honestly it probably will really struggle to accommodate 4 teens. But though reno's aren't on the cards for now, it is in the future because we know that once our first child gets to a certain age, sharing his room with a brother that much younger will suck bigtime. We do have the benefit though of having nearly 1000acres for them to roam as well. So we are working on a 5 yr plan atm. We do have a second vehicle - DH has a camry for work and will upgrade to a Rodeo extra cab. We don't plan on having a second vehicle that can accommodate us all as we just don't need a second car that will fit us all in. But we are happy to run two vehicles to the one destination if we have to, but it's not been an issue in the past two years though.

I would be lying if I said it wasnt' ever a struggle financially, but we are very careful with our money and we stick to a strict budget so it works for us. We only live on 75% of DH's income, at times even less as we have a unique situation where we have to top up the farm's finances with DH's off-farm income so from time to time we have sacrifice to keep the farm running.

It took us 12 months to decide to have a 4th baby and in the end it came down to not living with regrets. I didn't want to be a women who pined away for the child she never had, and we vowed that we would make it work and we haven't regretted it for a moment.a

[Marlene]

I'm in a slightly different situation with my four, as there are large gaps in their ages and the oldest has now left home, but I just want to say that if you are even considering another, then maybe it's just meant to be I want another bub, but it is a big decision. I try and talk myself out if it, but I just won't be swayed, LOL. Hmmm, now to talk DH into it. hehehe

[BekZ]

Thanks Arimeh for posting this question. I have been reading with interest.

Curly your comments and situation are very close to mine. Practically, physically and emotionally stopping at 3 is our best bet. However that ghost of number 4 is firmly with me.

Anyhow I've just joined the "No more babies club" and by jingles I'm finding it hard atm.

Good luck with your decision hun

[widdly]

Maz, your last post is so true, we all just try and do better than our parents did and give our kids better circumstances than we had. This is the reason we ust have the one essentially. Tere are times when I get a bit clucky, but all it takes is the tiniest bit of bad behaviour from DS to remind me I am not cut out for more kids. For me, I want to be able to give him plenty of my time and sttention and plenty of life experiences that I would have benefitted from growing up. We want to take DS travelling and see the world together, we cant do that with lots of kids. THee are many reasons of course, but essentially, I want DS to have the things/experience that I missed out on.

Who knows, probably if I were from an only child family I would have wanted 10 kids!

[Curly]

Car wise, its not just having 2 cars or a 7 seater thats the issue. We will get another car down the track, but this is how i see it. If you have 5 people in the family, then you can have the big car (like our 7 seater) and then a smaller to mid range car as the 2nd one, because 5 people can still fit into it. (for eg Mels brother and his wife have 3 kids, and they have a larger people mover style vehicle, and then a Toyota Echo as the second, and they can fit in that (tightly though).
If you have 4 kids, I see you then need two 7 seaters, cos I feel it is pointless having another car that cannot transport everyone in the family.

Why not just get two 7 seaters?
Cost, and also, when we had 2 cars until recently, 1 of them hardly got driven (like once maybe twice a week?) so it is hard to justify the extra cost of a big costly 7 seater for not much 'drive time'.

I hear what you're saying there...but we just figured that one car will be DH's "go to work" car and I will have the one with all the carseats. Whenever we go anywhere as a family even now, we have to take the big car because DH's care won't fit 3 carseats across the back now...let alone 4 kids.

A carseat can easily be transferred over to DH's car if there was ever a reason one of us had to take 1 kid somewhere and the other had to be somewhere else with the others. We didn't think it necessary for both of us to have a car that will accommodate all the kids. Whoever has the kids on whatever day gets the big car.

Re sharing bedrooms - I was happy for them to share but DH says no way, he really wants them to have their own rooms.

Re the weather and living indoors...that makes sense to me. We just moved to the Sunshine Coast from Melbourne and I spent a lot of time inside in winter because it was too cold to go out!

Maz and Trillian - thank you for your comments. The village...yes, I'm trying to build me a new one! And Maz, of course the love you have for your children gets you through. I use those exact words to girlfriends of mine who are pregnant for the first time. In fact, one of the things that really annoys me is that people tell you all the horror stories about having kids and nobody ever talks about the amazing love.

It's not just the lack of support DH and I have that is giving us pause for thought with Number 4...it's me and my own feelings as well, both physical and emotional. I have certain things in mind that I really want for my children and family life that I never had myself which I have not detailed in my post and I cannot deny that stopping at 3 will help me put those into place much more easily.

DH was always happy with the idea of 3...he wanted each child to have two chances of having a sibling they got along with! It was always me, as one of 3, that wanted the even number of 4. But life happens and I'm allowed to change my mind, I figure.

I am worried that the "ghost" of Number 4 will haunt me...will we regret not having Number 4? This is something DH has mentioned more than once. But this is why we haven't set a decision in stone yet. My first post was very much stream-of-consciousness writing...these are all my thoughts at the moment...I think I know what the decision will be but it hasn't completely floated to the top yet, IYKWIM.

[Fleur]

Well, I can't comment on the reality of 4 young kids as I have much bigger age gaps.

But as to the practicalities...ATM we are in a 3brm townhouse...it is squeezy but we manage.
And I totally agree with Trillian...they cost as much or as little as you want. we always manage to find enough. One sport / activity per child is enough for us - but that depends on the family really.

WRT cars... if you had a second car that wasn't getting used much... it wouldn't matter if it wasn't a 7 seater, would it? Our second car is a 5 seater (very old Laser) DH uses it for work, if we go out as a family it's in the Kia. We don't need two 7 seater cars cause we all fit in one IYKWIM.

Mind you - all of this is coming from someone who is trying to convince her DH NOT to get the snip just in case we might have more... he says it's not practical for us & I say well we would have stopped at two if that's what it was about

Wishing you LOTS of luck with your decision

[The_Gudism_Master]

My opinion in regards to 'middle child syndrome'....the only way you can avoid this so called problem is by having 2 kids.

I think middle child syndrome isnt the correct term....it should be 'middle children syndrome'.
No matter what, 3 kids, 5 kids, 10 kids.....there is always going to be a first born of the family and the 'baby' of the family, and kids in between will always feel this 'middle child' issue. Generally speaking, the first born and last born or baby of the family get considered 'special' by some parents.

Just my opinion........from a baby of the family!

and to add to this, being from a family of 3 kids, I personally believe that 'middle children syndrome' is sometimes a product of the parents too. Some people cannot hide their favouritisms to particular children, and this I think can cause middle child syndrome.
Of course this isnt always the case..

[The_Gudism_Master]

WRT cars... if you had a second car that wasn't getting used much... it wouldn't matter if it wasn't a 7 seater, would it? Our second car is a 5 seater (very old Laser) DH uses it for work, if we go out as a family it's in the Kia. We don't need two 7 seater cars cause we all fit in one IYKWIM.

yeah the more I think about this the truer it sounds. Having two 7 seaters is an overkill and/or a luxury for the rich!

[Trillian]

You are dead right about the whole middle child thing being a product of the parents doing as well. I know I am like that with DD1, who happened to be the middle child when we only had 3 of them, but it would have happened regardless of her birth order because we are just too much alike and we clash terribly LOL.

Whatever you decide to do will be the best for your family. All we can do is tell you how it is for us and you and Arimeh have to be the ones to take that leap of faith and have another child or stay with what you know and complete your family with 3 children

[westy]

Sorry i cant help as i'm yet to have my third bubba....we wont be going for the fourth though that i do know!!

Just wanted to say i wish you all the best and i hope your decision isn't too hard to make, after hearing everything im sure lots of others can add about having the fourth. Goodluck x

[widdly]

I can tell you that being one of 4 sucked, I wish i was one of 3. When we were a family of 5 I felt like there was still time for me and we still got to have holidays away and stuff, but once number four joined the family we didnt go anywhere for holidays and there was never enough individual attention for us.

[*LittleMissSummer*]

I can tell you that being one of 4 sucked, I wish i was one of 3. When we were a family of 5 I felt like there was still time for me and we still got to have holidays away and stuff, but once number four joined the family we didnt go anywhere for holidays and there was never enough individual attention for us.

:yeahthat:

- their very supportive of each other
- buying in bulk means you save money in the long run
- yourve always got some one to hug
- there's never a middle child
- you really get your monies worth at all you can eat buffets

:yeahthat:

There are good parts and there are bad. But my mum is thankful that my brother was born later on but he never felt left out even though hes on the only boy, he always got special treatment which sucked sometimes

[Arimeh]

Just wanted to say i wish you all the best and i hope your decision isn't too hard to make, after hearing everything im sure lots of others can add about having the fourth. Goodluck x

Thanks mate xxx

I can tell you that being one of 4 sucked, I wish i was one of 3. When we were a family of 5 I felt like there was still time for me and we still got to have holidays away and stuff, but once number four joined the family we didnt go anywhere for holidays and there was never enough individual attention for us.

Well I think being one of 3 sucked, so I guess we'll always think the grass is greener on the other side ay

And honestly I dont really know whats good or bad about having 4. I just love my kids and you just deal with the situation at hand as it arrives.

I think thats my problem. I see the fantastic little people they are and so overwhelmed with the love that I just want more and more and more!!! Even when they make me so cranky I could shoot them lol

Trillian - thank you soo much for replying - I think DH is wanting to address some of those things that you said But yes, I agree with everything that you said about 2 could cost you just as much as 4 could. And thats usually the way, if you have extra money, you usually spend it on shiat that you don't really need ... lol...
Oh - and we don't have a HUGE yard with the unit, its pretty tiny, but a few parks and stuff around town (its a small town where we are moving to)