No respite until next year.....

[Lulu]

If you can believe it, things have gotten even worse with Beths sleep.

Our bedtime routine is perfect. She is sleepy and will fall asleep on the boob , the moment she realizes she is in bed all hell breaks loose. I've tried everything, putting her to bed awake and reading 10 stories, quiet times every night etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. She IS tired, she needs sleep and she will sleep till 9-10am next morning. I was letting her sleep in to catch up but I see thats making things worse as NOW she won't go to sleep until 11PM at least.
Once she realizes whatever we are doing is heading to sleep time, she goes batty - kicking screaming, pulling my hair, flying headbutts THE WORKS.

She sleeps fine during the day, she puts herself up on the couch with a blanket and off she goes. When I stop her sleeping she goes rancid. When she wakes up she is rancid, because I cant let her sleep for 4 hours during the day. Actually she only had 30 mins yesterday and she is still going nuts despite being up till 12.30am the night before
If she sat up quietly reading books or something it wouldn't be so bad, but you can see her synapses are totally misfiring and she trashes the place, jumps on her sleeping brother aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Last night Mitch had a temp of 40.3 and I couldn't bring it down, all the while Beth is running amok and carrying on. Belle was here and helped out but I didn't know what I would do if I had to race him up to the hospital.

So I called the Queen Elizabeth Centre and I can't even get an assessment phone interview until 20th January! OMG. I've run out of ideas, we are in the middle of a vicious cycle that I am unable to break. I'm ok once the sun rises even if I haven't slept enough but once evening falls I'm a zombie. I'm even more sensitive to noise when I'm overtired so even a slightly raised voice does my head in though.

I am taking Mitch to the Drs today and will ask for a Paed referral for her, then I'm off to the shops for a little cd player, some headphones and some story/music cds AND some calm drops (Yes, I even tried the dreaded Phenergan once or twice and it make NO DIFFERENCE to her). Please, please work.....

Just needed to get this out - I know there are no answers.

[Ginger]

ohhh lulu, sounds bad. if you're thinking of going to a sleep school have you tried the koo wee rup one?

[Epacris]

Lulu, massive hugs I wish, wish, wish I could offer you something to help (you always have so much to offer other people). I've got nothing. Just, thinking of you, it seems so inadequate.

[LaDeeDa]

Big Hugs Chick
I wish I could help but wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you!

[Trillian]

Oh hun. I can sense how much this is wearing you down Can you get xDp over on the odd night to help out with the night routine, even if just to keep Mitch amused and get him to bed while you deal with Beth - or could he even help out with Beth? Next year is such a long time till you can get anything done, and they will all be closed for most of January anyway I suppose too.

[Arimeh]

Yeah I got no ideas either

And even if I had some suggestions - you would have tried them already.

I hope you can get in to see someone sooner - and I wish I was there so her and Aricyn could run amok together and we could have some.. drinkies...

[Jennifer13]

Lulu, you must be at the end of your tether.

Can you have a nap in the middle of the day if she has a nap? I know it's not a long term solution, but just to help you get through the day with your own lack of sleep.

I know you say you've tried everything, but you're a smart cookie - what do you think has the BEST chance of working? How long did you try it for? She sounds like she is winning this bedtime war, hands down. I think you can do this, and I think you have a better chance of getting it right than you have of making it to the end of January sanity-intact with this still going on!

And just one point - it sounds like she doesn't want to sleep in her room for her daytime nap either. Can you change that? It sounds like her sleep association is not in her bed.

Sorry you're dealing with this Lulu, whinge away! Let us know how you're going.

[Lulu]

Trill, he is half the problem. He is just LOUD LOUD LOUD, totally doesn't understand about the need for a tight routine. He does help all he can and often ends up walking her in the pram at 10.30pm. We are both at wits end and I've asked that he doesn't come over for a full week so I can tackle it on my own *sob.

[Jennifer13]

Trill, he is half the problem. He is just LOUD LOUD LOUD, totally doesn't understand about the need for a tight routine. He does help all he can and often ends up walking her in the pram at 10.30pm. We are both at wits end and I've asked that he doesn't come over for a full week so I can tackle it on my own *sob.

You can do it. Lulu. Night time does not sound like the right time for him to come and help. But it must be tricky as I'm guessing he doesn't have a stack of free time during the day. He needs to respect your rules, otherwise, how can you expect Beth to? Sounds like you've already tried to sort out some aspects of the problem.

[Pretty Butterfly]

Oh hon....

I only have one suggestion, and a good chance it wont work, sorry.....

Can you shake her up, and start all over??

Move the furniture in her room around, and put new covers on the bed. Buy a 2 big kids clocks, and put some stickers on.

One for nap, two stickers, (up and down time)eg, sticker at 12.00 and 2.30....

One for bed, two stickers, (up and down times) Show her her sleep times...and show her the sticker time when you get her up, lots of praise...

She can take her blanket to bed of course....

And when she comes out, she goes straight back in...even if it takes till the 2.30!!

If she sleeps AT ALL, she gets a sticker etc for being sooo good.....

It would take awhile, but could get her into a good routine, IF it works....

thats all I got babe, sorry.....

[Lulu]

One more thing thats going to pee me right off - when I went to sleep school when Mitch was 3 months the place was full of women with MINOR problems with their kids. Out of the 8 or so of us that were there, 2 of us actually had real sleep issues.
Seriously, whilst I was up every hour trying to resettle EVERYONE else was quite happily going to bed and sleeping through the night. Most of them had problems getting the child down for a day sleep. BIG FRICKEN DEAL.

so now there is a waiting list of MONTHS and if and when I get there its full of minor issues I'm gonna go off my tree, I really mean it.

I'll be back later to reformulate a plan using some of these responses. I really appreciate it xoxoxoxo

[Astrid]

huge sweetie. Gosh can't really add more than what has been said. The whole sleep school thing seems like a pain. I can see why they are full, the moment someone's baby/toddler is unsettled for a couple of days, someone will always suggest sleep school for them

We will be getting the spare bedroom set-up soon, so if you want a cheap holiday come down here. The kids can get together and run themselves ragged chasing the animals. You need a break.

[Jennifer13]

so now there is a waiting list of MONTHS and if and when I get there its full of minor issues I'm gonna go off my tree, I really mean it.

You won't need sleep school, Lulu. (Sounds like it was a great place ) You CAN do this and you will. I really hope your new plan gives you some much-needed strength and resolve! Let us know what it is!

[Lulu]

WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT - I forgot to ask for a referral for Beth at the Drs today .

I think the first step is to clear Dp out of the way PROPERLY. Yes he lives miles away but when he is working around this area he 'pops in' and doesn't leave for days, or forgets to catch the bus home, or whatever. I think I'm happy for the help but he doesn't actually help at all. I'm pretty sure he has adult ADD (not joking), he simply cannot concentrate on anything. One minute he is getting Mitch in the shower, next he is in the vegie patch at 8pm, then he is feeding the dogs .

Last weekend Dp took them up to his place and I was supposed to get some rest ready to take her on this week but they both got so very ill and thats out the window now. I might see if they can try again this weekend just so I can catch up (I'm totally fine during the day - I thrive on sunlight!) and be ready, get her bedroom sorted nicely.

They are both resting on the couch now, I hope she sleeps even though its getting a little late in the day...bugger it all.

[Nai]

I think with sleep school if you call them crying that you are a single mum and that you are desperate and that you may do something irrational if you don't get help soon they may be able to get you in earlier (but you didn't hear that from me...).

If you can't get in earlier I think it is best to get DP out of the way and really focus on the issue. The change of routine and bedroom thing to start all over again from scratch and implement a new program as PurpleMumma suggested might do the trick.

[Trillian]

Bugger about Dp Lulu. Maybe that's what is stirring her up and she's getting conflicting messages then about what is acceptable at night time - like she thinks it's OK to be loud when Dad is loud kwim? Jodie has some super ideas too.

Also, what time *ideally* would you like to see them into bed? maybe it's a bit early for them? A friend of mine had shocking issues with her eldest trying to get him to go to bed, but she was putting him to bed at 6pm - as well as forcing (yep, I did mean force) him to have 2 day sleeps and would complain about his terrible sleeping habits to anyone that would listen but the poor kid just wasn't tired! She finally worked out that if she put him to bed 2 hours later and dropped a day sleep (mind you he was 3!) that he went down for both his arvo and his bedtime sleep without a fuss.

[Lulu]

Wow, hows this! I got an SMS from them saying they had a cancellation for 17/12, then another call just then saying they had another cancellation so I can have the assessment call for tomorrow 3.30!!!!

I think 7 - 7.30 is the right time for them both to go to bed and Beth is buggered by that stage. She only has sleeps when she has been up all night. She really dropped daysleeps at 18 months like her brother...
They both wake up well about 7 to 7.30 am unless its been a 'big night'....

[MrsFabuloso]

Lulu. I'm sorry you're having a tough time. We don't get much sleep in this house either, though I don't think it's as tough as yours! I am lucky enough to have good support from DH (when he's not working...).
The only suggestions I can think of is to use some relaxation techniques, like a bath, massage in low lighting and oil burner in her room, with a little relaxing oils burning. And a strict routine, and bed time EVERY time she goes to bed.
Good luck, there's nothing worse than that horrible tiredness every single day.

ETA, Wooohooooo!! I hope it all goes well!!