I am trying to pick my battles here, I get them to apologise but am also trying to pick them up on every little thing, and letting some things slide. I had an awful time at Donny just before and spent 5 minutes lecturing the 2 of them on manners, thank-you's, please, not asking " I want" for every freaking thing. They were silent through the whole thing and then DS nearly 4 goes, "Mummy rain is clouds you know".... **Sighhhhh* Not much help but you definitely aren't alone.