Natural consequences plus help for attitude......

[Beach Mama]

Rouge not at all over the place hun - all makes sense and is spot on how we want this household to run, we just are at a loss at times as to what we are doing!! Today has been awesome, I have stayed calm all day, DD has been great and I have really been praising the good behaviour which I have been forgetting to do as well because I have been so focused on the negative.

I have also used the choices for them today and it's worked really well, so I think I have just forgotten some of these things over the last few weeks (DH was away for 4 weeks, been back for 3 but things still haven't been in a great routine since).

Anyway thanks again all - I really appreciate the advice and will definitely be continuing on. I agree about the manners thing Rouge, that is one thing we are on top of constantly.

[Heaven]

Yay! So glad to hear Tan!

[Jellyfish]

You can even just ask their opinion. My DD1 is 4 and helps set the expectations and consequences which helps things feel less like a 'punishment' we are dishing out and more like a solution which we found together. It also helps you understand what sort of things are important to them - my DD1s first point of order was hurting people then snatching things then listening so it helped to know she wanted the same things too, that she did want to be kind all of her own volition. I realised that I also have things I hope to achieve but sometimes fall short of so I became more understanding. So we would ask things like 'well what should somebody do if they feel like hitting' and she suggested some space alone to calm down and then a hug so now when I see she is getting frustrated I can acknowledge it and remind her what we talked about earlier, she takes her time out (and I ask if she wants me to wait with her or not) then we hug and move on. I also noticed she was most likely to want to hit when her sister (who is just 1) had snatched so began reassuring and showing her different ways to handle the situation, explaining to that if she modeled sharing and asking that DD2 would pick up on it too but if she modeled hitting than that is what she would learn. Things became much easier when I could gather her thoughts too and get her actively participating, people are more cooperative when they are involved in the process. When she was younger we did the double outcome choices like boots vs sandals or me doing it vs her doing it which worked well but has become less and less necessary.

We always try to address things before they become bigger problems like with babies you keep an eye out for tired signs, with my kids now I look out for frustration signs lol. I also openly acknowledge when I am starting to feel frustrated too, lead by example and all that.

[Beach Mama]

From this thread to today things got better, then got a whole lot worse - am seriously time poor tonight but need some help about what books might help us with DD (nearly 6). We are at the end of our tether and just don't know what to do... Today's gem was staying on the playground when DH walked all the way to the car after asking her to come with him and DS and she refused, stayed there and DH had to go all the way back to get her. Sounds silly on paper (screen!) but he was furious and we simply expect more of her if we ask her politely and tell her NO that she can't play on the monkey bars after school, after netball at nearly 5pm at night, then the answer is no.

Anyhoooo - add this to a million other gems like this over the few weeks and you get the gist....

Any books that we should/could read to help us?? Am The Science of Parenting or Unconditional Parenting by Koen...

Any others much appreciated... I want my kind hearted gorgeous girl back

[Beach Mama]

Double

[fionas]

I'm also subbing for ideas because DD1 has not been doing as she's asked too many times lately. I'm very easy going by nature (but VERY particular about manners) and I think I let her get away with too much.

One of our issues has been her not leaving school when asked. The school grounds are well over an acre and there are four playgrounds. She has been running off between all of them while I have my two-year-old in tow. Not pleasant. I tried to set rules about how she could play in one of the playgrounds for 10 minutes and then we leave. That was only moderately successful before she basically ran all over the shop again one day. So once she was in car, I basically told her in a very calm voice how I'm often very, very proud of her but I've never been as disappointed with her as I was that day.

She's been a whole lot better since that chat. Consequences don't matter that much to her but telling her I was disappointed with her really hit home I think because that's the first time she's heard anything other than praise from me. The other thing that makes her stop and think is the phrase, "we don't do that in this family."

Now, if she leaves promptly when asked she comes home and we watch Little House On The Prairie on youtube as a special treat.

We still have a long, long way to go on other things but at least we've made some progress on this.

[Beach Mama]

bumping for any more ideas???

[Calluna]

DS is 3 so not sure if this is helpful, and we do have major listening issues too. But...

We give DS a 5, 2,1 min, 30 sec warning, then 10 second countdown. Sounds way OTT but it works. He is much happier to leave/ cooperate when hes had lots of warning. If he wont leave I tell him if he cant listen this time we wont able to come back/ do that/ have that next time.

[Arcadia]

It sounds like your dd is going through a new stage of independence.

Can you really look at your expectations and see if they need adjusting? It is easier to cope sometimes if we know there is a reason, so perhaps you could see this as a stage that needs to be managed/survived rather than a problem needing a solution itms?

With the playground example, I think it is important not to threaten things you can't follow through with. You won't leave without her, so I would be hesitant to threaten that.
After asking her to leave, perhaps your Dh could have just calmly said 'I'm going to wait in the car so come when you're ready' and see what happens. That would only work if the car was in sight of the park, otherwise I would emphasize how cold and dark it's getting and then 'sell' them something fun to do at home (let's go home and make milkshakes what's your favourite flavour?)

I don't have a 6 year old, but I think all children test the boundaries as they grow. Our job is to help them find the new boundary suitable to their age, but in a supportive way.

It's late so sorry if this vague.

[HotI]

I have been following this thread with interest. I do the time warnings with DD 3 y.o., but still get melt down that lasts forever when I eventually just have to say we have to leave and strap her in the car. If I said I would wait in the car, she would say 'seeya' and I would sit in the car for hours.

I wonder if some kids need stronger boundaries than others, just how to achieve this is the question.

[wysiwyg]

DD is being particularly difficult at the moment and the only thing that works is to either turn it into a task I need her to help with or make it part of a game e.g. we have to play schools all the time if I address it like I am teacher and she is pupil (e.g. That was a good school trip wasn't it Chloe or whatever name she is that day - lets get out of the school bus and go back into school for lessons). We get the not getting out the car alot - so the other thing is can you help me carry this or hold your brothers hand etc. Anything else just results in tantrum and more stubborness. Also I ask her what she thinks should do and often the answer is what I want her to do anyway (eg get out the car) but it has to be her idea. I figure the phase will pass eventually and it certainly keeps me on my toes keeping in character. :-)

[Arcadia]

When we were travelling through the USA we definitely had instances of dd putting her foot down and not wanting to come with us. The only thing that worked was to emphasize the fact we knew she didnt want to go but we were a team, and we had to work together. I also say things like 'mummy keeps you safe so you need to stay with me' and 'mummy helps you when you want a drink/go to the toilet/need something to eat, so you need to help mummy and come when I ask'.

I think picking up a child and physically removing them is perfectly reasonable if they have ignored all requests.

It is obviously different as the child gets older though because physically handling a six year old is different.

Hope you don't mind this thread turning into a discussion, because clearly it is a complex thing.

[wysiwyg]

When we were travelling through the USA we definitely had instances of dd putting her foot down and not wanting to come with us. The only thing that worked was to emphasize the fact we knew she didnt want to go but we were a team, and we had to work together. I also say things like 'mummy keeps you safe so you need to stay with me' and 'mummy helps you when you want a drink/go to the toilet/need something to eat, so you need to help mummy and come when I ask'.

Curious did you ever get the "but I can do it myself, I don't need your help" response to this? Any suggestion by me that DD needs me is not welcomed by DD at all. Sometimes this gets me quite stuck but I suppose her believing in herself is a good thing really.