To smack or not to smack

[JLeigh29]

Rouge - Such wise words. What great insights you offer, and so well-worded too.

I don't smack. I don't think it's ok. After teaching for 10 years, I've seen some extremely challenging behaviour and have learned a whole boatload of behaviour management strategies to deal with them, none of which involve physical touch. I'll be a very old woman before I have 'tried everything else'.

If DH and I disagree about something, we'll discuss it (read, heated argument!), I'll usually refer to things I've read/people I've talked to etc and, because I am the one who's investigated/thought about it and who spends the most time with DS, I get the final say if we still can't agree or compromise.

As a parent, I am constantly reflecting on my parenting. I will never stop trying to be a better parent.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I don't think Dr Spock was that keen on CIO and stuff like that, and his books were certainly around when I was little. Just knowing how much my mother used to say she hated smacking as a child, all her siblings did (and this was often a belting) - to grow up and hit your own children and allow your DH to use a shoe to do it... mmm.

I grew up with examples of parenting I disliked, so I actively decided not to use those parenting tools. It isn't easy. But I do it. Because I love my son. (And yes, by implication, my mother didn't love me that much.)

TBH, if I only had the tools my mother had - I'd be going down the Spock route. You know, children as individuals sort of thing. Hey guess what - with all my extra resources, I still look at my son as an individual and a human. Maybe I'm not so removed from our parents' generation after all.

ETA - sorry, Rouge, not you getting me riled, just me thinking about my childhood doing it - people don't do a different style of parenting because it's "bohemian"? Wow. Abuse your child cos you were abused, that's fine (different to smacking, again, but an example to use), but advocating, or just doing, the whole "treat a child with respect" thing - nah, abuse won't get me kicked out of the mothers' playground club, so I'll go with that. I have no respect for people who use that as an excuse. My mother told me my parenting would kill my son - BLS, demand feeding, co-sleeping, no smacking, talking things through... now she comments how well-behaved he is, how kind, loving, what a good eater... OK, most of it is him and not my parenting, but I was willing to risk the wrath of my mother and ergo all the community around her (and most of it around me too) to be a good parent. Why on earth wouldn't someone put their child in front of some silly gossipy old women?

[Rouge]

I think you are actually. That's the point. You don't just go with the flow or do things because it's all you know. That's the largest flaw. We have become the generation to seek out knowledge. And this doesn't specifically relate to parenting but all things. You and I would have been an anomaly then, now we are mainstream.

I think the fact that psychology is no longer a taboo subject in our lives has really helped us to be better parents, we think more about how what we do makes our children feel, how it impacts them long term and not just how to fix a tantrum, or how to stop a child from touching an oven. But more about the bigger picture. The lasting effects we have as parents due to our actions. And some of this stems from personal experience, but a lot of it comes from psychological awareness and the thirst for knowledge our generation has.

ETA: I think you might be thinking I'm making excuses for the way you were parented as a child. Absolutely not. I am generalising about parents who aren't abusive. So please remember when you read my words I'm not talking about you specifically unless I say so, or your mother and how she parented you. And can I also just say I do understand what it's like to have those feelings. If I dig deep down hard enough they are still there for me. But I don't have the relationship to reopen the wounds iykwim?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I see your point, Rouge, and yes, the change in perception about a healthy psychology has certainly changed in the last 30-40 years.

HOWEVER, I still think that if you think "my parents did XYZ, I hated it, it damaged my relationship with them" to such an extent that you tell your children about that... you don't then do the same thing, or are OK with your OH doing the same thing. And the rise of psychology was in the 1990s - still time for parenting to change before I left home.

(Plus, how uninformed do you have to be to not realise that how we treat our children impacts their future life? My mother had a poem to that effect in the kitchen when we were growing up.)

[Rouge]

It was perception. I have heard my grandmother talk, and she honestly believed that if she didn't do the things she did as a parent she would be damaging her child. If her child ended up a criminal (and believe me I know that sounds ridiculous, but I've heard those words before) it would be her fault because she didn't do xyz. Ironically a lot of what they did was because they thought it would prevent their children from growing up to be bad adults, the other part was "what would other's think" and we are still guilty of this now (ie. mother guilt).

[Starter1]

I think the there is no place for it at this present/future time, their are so many other methods out there that I have always thought of it as a way out.

[Earthmama]

Every single national pediatric, psychological and psychiatric organisation in the entire western world, without a single exception, says that corporal punishment is bad for children. Period. Don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself

[fionas]

I was only smacked once across the legs as a child - I remember thinking my dad was an idiot at the time.

DP was hit a lot as a child - not just as a toddler (not that I'm saying that's OK) but also as an older child, probably up to the stage where his dad knew that he could and would hit back if he carried on doing it. DP is very, very vocal about not wanting to smack the girls. I think I've tapped them both once each despite the fact that DD1 has had massive and regular meltdowns. It's not something that really occurs to me to do, not that I don't get frustrated, it just doesn't occur to me and I'm thankful for that.

Having said all that, despite the fact that DP doesn't smack, he does many things that I don't agree with. He is very prone to losing his temper over petty things and he is verbally abusive to me and can go on 15 minute rants calling me horrible names. I think that's just as harmful as smacking.

[trishalishous]

In our family, we dont hit anyone. It was an easy decision for us, as Im a 4th generation non-smacker, and DH was abused as a child (and vowed to never treat his children like that).
That said he has hit DD once, when changing her nappy she kicked him in the *ahem* testicles, and he slapped her leg away in shock/pain, then collapsed on the floor.
Our challenging behaviour atm is kicking while changing nappies (Im pregnant, and cant be kicked in my tummy, and shes given DH a blood nose from kicking too) so we are trying different things, yet NEVER plan to smack to stop her kicking

[Chrispe]

It's all very easy to say "I don't smack, ever" wait until you have a child who just likes to push all your buttons & NOTHING else works (and you've tried everything).

I don't like abuse, but I do believe there are times when a tap on the bum is necessary. I try to avoid smacking, I use it as a last resort. Each child is different, my DS1(7yo) is mostly the sweetest boy rarely gets into trouble, my DD (5yo)thinks she is it & a bit & often argues with me about everything. DS2 (1.5 yo) loves to see just how far he can get before you stop him, often distraction just doesn't work as he will just run straight back.

I'd be interested to know how much experience with kids of various ages most on here have, I have young kids however I've been working as a nanny with kids of ages 0-16 for over 15 years, and as far as disciple went I would co-ordinate that with the parents (consistency being the key).

[SunnyRain]

I'm so sick of hearing "just wait until your children disrespect you or do something you disagree with."

Firstly, they won't respect me more if I bash them, secondly if they disagree with me I need to at least let them voice their opinion, and then discuss it.

oh, and no I wouldn't hit my child if s/he was about to run into traffic, touch a hot stove, pick up a sharp knife. I would act to get them out of that situation.

I get angry with myself constantly for not always handling things as well as I could with my children and not always being as respectful as I want to be. How people who hit their kids live with themselves is beyond me.



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[Rouge]

Chrispe, my son knows how to push buttons. I think it's unfair to blame a child for your choice in parenting methods. I lose my temper but I do not smack as a result, I try not to yell and we work on a solution. So please know I have been in a situation where I feel frustrated but that has never lead me to think "If only I had chosen smacking as a parenting tool." Not once.

[Beach Mama]

It's all very easy to say "I don't smack, ever" wait until you have a child who just likes to push all your buttons & NOTHING else works (and you've tried everything).

I think ALL kids can be challenging at times and it makes no sense to think your kids are the worst, or that other kids don't misbehave as much etc. I think that we all have times we are stressed, tired, angry etc and our kids pick up on that, plus they are developmentally wired to "push buttons" - it's called learning.

I have never said that I don't smack. I have at times smacked, I hate it, it doesn't work - all it taught my kids was that hitting was ok, all it taught me was that I need OTHER strategies to use with my kids. It has also taught my kids the frailty of humans as I ALWAYS apologise for my behaviour and we talk it out afterwards. FWIW since reading this thread I have really been thinking about my parenting skills (or lack of at times ) and I have been lowering my voice as at times I get loud, not necessarily yelling but LOUD and it's made a huge difference. I have printed off the parenting manifesto that I posted the other day and one key thing on that list resonated with me - Today, when I am most repelled by a childs behaviour, that i when I will draw CLOSEST to that child.

[Jellyfish]

It's all very easy to say "I don't smack, ever" wait until you have a child who just likes to push all your buttons & NOTHING else works (and you've tried everything).

And what do you do when an adult is pushing your buttons? Hit them? No? So why is it different with a child?

We don't smack and I will do my best to never resort to that because not only does it seem completely wrong to me, I don't actually think it even is an effective way to parent. How do you teach that violence is not okay when you use it?

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Why don't we just all accept that we ALL parent differently. Smacking works in my household, i don't believe it is having any negative effect on my DD and i also DONT want to hear such things either. You aren't in my house, you don't see the way i smack my DD. I don't "bash" her at best its a light tap. Most of the time she will say "sorry" as she knows what she did to get a smack was naughty (usually throwing something at us or smacking us first). If she does cry we instantly get up and console her and explain to her that what she did wasn't very nice and we didn't like it. Or if she walks up to me and smacks my face i will tap hers back and say "not a nice feeling is it". This method works for us 99.9%, but will admit that it hasn't been working recently so i now know i have to try something else so using time out in her cot is what i do.

I was smacked as a young child by my mother for bad behaviour and i never thought anything bad of her, i knew what i did was bad. But on the other hand i was abused by my step father which i knew the difference in discipline and him taking pleasure in beating us.

My DD doesn't love me any less. I show her alot of affection and she does the same for me.

[Charlotte91]

[Smoke Jaguar]

LMS, I believe you have come into this thread really late and not read the progression of the first question at all. Your post suggests this. This thread wasn't started as a 'Live and let live' thread, it was a parent asking for reassurance about her non-smacking inclination. There has been really good discussion supporting the use of far more respectful and considered parenting techniques - 4 pages' worth. It's challenging for a lot of people to read - it turns on its head what many of us have been taught about children and their place in the world; a lifetime of conditioning about how to raise children.
FWIW, I've heard all of what you have said before - light taps, no bashing, doing no harm, comparing it to other forms of child abuse etc. And NONE of it washes with me. Teaching kids that hitting is ok when you're bigger than the person you're hitting is just not equipping a child for future relationships. When I discipline my children (again, 'discipline' means 'to teach/guide') I use words and actions that enhance their experience of human relationships that they can use as they grow. I most certainly don't want them to take hitting/tapping and non-words like 'naughty' (how come you can't just articulate why what they did was unacceptable, instead of using the lazy word 'naughty', that doesn't even teach them anything except to be ashamed of themselves?) into their school lives and beyond. What's so arduous about making every lesson count? What are we having kids for, if we can't take the time and effort to equip them for the lives they'll have once they leave our jurisdiction?
We don't own children; we bear or adopt them and look after them until maturity. They are not our property to do with as we wish. This is challenging for many people who still believe that what they do in their own houses is their right. I teach my kids things I want them to take out into the big, wide world, so that they can leave it a better place than they found it. I want them to always think smacking in all forms is something to be horrified by, as they do now. I won't be teaching them to accept that some people smack and it's ok that they choose that. It's not ok. I can't change what you do, and I can believe it's not ok to shame kids into 'submission'. Using any physical assertion of power doesn't teach co-operation, just obedience. That's not my goal.

[PumpkinZulu]

I don't personally agree with that but I will not attack you I personally don't think hitting a child for hitting makes sense. In my own experience, children that get hit/smacked/tapped for hitting (and other behaviours) are often the ones who misbehave the most.

I dislike the line, "you just wait". Nah, I still will not use violence or intimidate my daughter.